Treblinka III

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PrudentRegret
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Re: Treblinka III

Post by PrudentRegret »

Nessie wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:02 pm
Just an early intelligence report from 1943, long before there had been any full investigation.
Treblinka has never been subject to a "full investigation", as not even a fraction of a percent of the alleged mass graves have been excavated and forensically investigated.

We rely on unreliable and inconsistent witness testimony, as well as interpretation of documentary evidence. This is documentary evidence that does not corroborate the historiography, and since there has never been a "full investigation" of Treblinka, it is relevant.

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Nessie
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Re: Treblinka III

Post by Nessie »

PrudentRegret wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:20 pm
Nessie wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:02 pm
Just an early intelligence report from 1943, long before there had been any full investigation.
Treblinka has never been subject to a "full investigation", as not even a fraction of a percent of the alleged mass graves have been excavated and forensically investigated.
What fraction has been investigated? What fraction is required to act as a sample of what is in the ground? Deniers have an agenda to reject anything that goes against what they want to believe, so why should their opinion be given any credibility?
We rely on unreliable and inconsistent witness testimony,...
Deniers cherry and nit pick some of the witnesses and ignore that when it comes to the main details, they are very consistent.
... as well as interpretation of documentary evidence.
There is not much to interpret, the documents all agree that there were mass transports of people to the death camp. No document exists that records any mass transport back out of the camp, or arrival elsewhere from the camp.
This is documentary evidence that does not corroborate the historiography,
How? The documents and witnesses all report mass arrivals at the death camp and no mass departures and that there was a nearby labour camp.
.. and since there has never been a "full investigation" of Treblinka, it is relevant.
I doubt you have read much about the camps at Treblinka, so you pretend it has not been properly investigated. No denier has the relevant qualifications or credibility to investigate.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Treblinka III

Post by Huntinger »

PrudentRegret wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:20 pm
Treblinka has never been subject to a "full investigation", as not even a fraction of a percent of the alleged mass graves have been excavated and forensically investigated.

We rely on unreliable and inconsistent witness testimony, as well as interpretation of documentary evidence. This is documentary evidence that does not corroborate the historiography, and since there has never been a "full investigation" of Treblinka, it is relevant.
This thread is not about TII whatever it might be; there are threads to discuss the possibilities of this place. What is clear is the following:
  • US Intelligence reports of a Konzentrationslager TII and another extermination camp..refer to Original Post
    Image
  • The claimed extermination camp was in existence in Sept 1941 some 10 months before the current Treblinka II extermination facility.
  • A feasibility study of an attack on Treblinka and Majdanek was ordered by the Commander-in-Chief of the Home Army, General "Grot" Rowecki on January 27, 1943, who demanded that the report be returned by February 17, 1943.
  • The annihilation camp "Treblinka III", according to this official governmental document, was located in an area of the large Czerwony Bor Forest, within a remote and secret old military base also named Czerwony Bor.
  • The Treblinka II Camp, considered during the Jerusalem trial as the annihilation camp, was described in this official, multi-paged governmental document as just an ordinary Konzentrationslager.
  • The military barracks at Czerwony bor prior to the invasion of Poland by the Reich was the 33 infantry division.
    Image
  • As late as in 1944, the existence of a Czerwony bor extermination facility was also mentioned in the renowned wartime publication "Ghetto Speaks" published in New York
It is known that mass executions took place in the area of this forest and other nearby ones. The fact that most of these insurgents shot were likely terrorists does not detract from that real possibility that a real execution centre may have existed, in fact most likely existed in the Czerwony bor forest.

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Turnagain
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Re: Treblinka III

Post by Turnagain »

Has anything been done to determine whether or not T-III actually existed? Any records of deportees/partisans being sent there? Any proof that T-III functioned as an execution center? Intelligence reports are an indicator but hardly constitute proof.

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Re: Treblinka III

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:35 am
Has anything been done to determine whether or not T-III actually existed? Any records of deportees/partisans being sent there? Any proof that T-III functioned as an execution center? Intelligence reports are an indicator but hardly constitute proof.
It is not the intelligence reports so much as the plan to attack a place in that vicinity by Polish Homeguard forces in 1943; there are phone numbers etc to contact but the issue is why these reports are not on public file that can be accessed atm.
Obviously more work is to be done but the correlation of US intelligence with other information gives a prima facie case; perhaps enough to get funding to confirm this by some interested group.
A place of execution and in the mindset of some, extermination, are one and the same; it is highly likely a good proportion of Warsaw juden were executed for terrorism as per the Reich code of conduct at the time. I believe that the victims thought they were being sent to Treblinka II for relocation to the East but ended up at Czerwony bor, the Reich Katyn in a way. I think the truth is more important than the feeble fabrications of the hoaxers.

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Nessie
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Re: Treblinka III

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:35 am
Has anything been done to determine whether or not T-III actually existed?
No, Huntinger has been copy and pasting and plagiarising what he has found on the internet.
Any records of deportees/partisans being sent there? Any proof that T-III functioned as an execution center?
No records, no witnesses, nothing evidences a TIII miles away from the known TI and TII.
Intelligence reports are an indicator but hardly constitute proof.
Exactly. An intelligence report thinks there was a third T camp, which is more likely Malkinia than somewhere many miles away with no connection to Treblinka. The US intelligence report knows about Malkinia and has likely double counted it as TIII.

That is the simplest most logical explanation.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Treblinka III

Post by Turnagain »

As is usual with Nessie, anything that doesn't fit the orthodox Treblinka fantasies is dismissed out of hand. What we have is some very good but unverified information about a third Treblinka camp that actually was an execution facility.

I agree with you, Hunt, that the possibility of a third Treblinka camp or Czerwony bor, should be investigated. However, I don't think such an investigation will be allowed. Finding the grave(s) and bodies of the executed partisans would put paid to the fantasy that T-II was a murder facility with hundreds of thousands of victims. Can't have that.

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Nessie
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Re: Treblinka III

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:47 am
As is usual with Nessie, anything that doesn't fit the orthodox Treblinka fantasies is dismissed out of hand. What we have is some very good but unverified information about a third Treblinka camp that actually was an execution facility.
All you have is an intelligence report and a leap made by Huntinger that TIII was located in a forest miles from Treblinka. Huntinger is not credible, as he plagiarises, shows no understanding of what he copies and pastes and he once claimed that he had travelled to NZ to investigate the Mosque mass shooting there.
I agree with you, Hunt, that the possibility of a third Treblinka camp or Czerwony bor, should be investigated. However, I don't think such an investigation will be allowed. Finding the grave(s) and bodies of the executed partisans would put paid to the fantasy that T-II was a murder facility with hundreds of thousands of victims. Can't have that.
You investigated what happened at Czerwony Bor, there is nothing to stop you from checking archives and visiting the site or getting permissions to do physical investigations.

Finding the bodies of executed partisans would just lead to the conclusion that partisans were executed and buried there. It would not prove that the camp at TII, on the rail spur to TI and the quarry, was not a death camp.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Treblinka III

Post by Turnagain »

More moronic bullshit from Nessie.

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TheGodfather
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Re: Treblinka III

Post by TheGodfather »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:31 pm
More moronic bullshit from Nessie.
He's sick in the head, seriously.

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