What is the Revisionist Narrative??

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Nessie
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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:56 pm
When Nessie's "what if" doesn't work he simply lies.
There is no "what if?" or lie about those three facts.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.


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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie is sticking to his "what if" and his lie.

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Nessie
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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:16 pm
Nessie is sticking to his "what if" and his lie.
You need to explain how what I said is a "what if" and a lie.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:46 pm
No, it is a fact that the engine would stall long before the building itself would implode/explode. It is a fact that all references to a vacuum are hearsay and no witness said they saw it actually happen, save for one reported attempt. It is a fact there is a document that records the fitting of a vent to solve pressure issues for gassings.
This thread is about the revisionist narrative? does what revisionists think occurred coincide with what the believers think. This thought is inspired by Dr Terry and others who claim that revisionists are arguing against the wrong premise; if so what is wrong with what we are arguing against and how come the official narrative changes at whim to suit the believers?

Nessie thinks he or she has a task to pull the wool over everyone's eyes to turn them into believers. The poster should stick to the topic, say their piece and then leave it; let other people decide without this continual waddling into the mud.


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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Huntinger »

This is how some revisionists see the narrative. The reason why the (((believers))) say there is no narrative is because to claim there is means that the claims are easily defeated. They claim the gaskammers etc are not important as the holocaust was more in depth than this; this really means they have placed this alleged event on an esoteric basic, a mystical magical event which moves and fades like a will o the wisp. The reality to some as expressed in this cartoon from Stormfront expresses their view quite clearly. Some of us do not necessarily follow this thinking due to the fact that Bolshevik Juden and Soviets were clearly involved. The Commmon Mitvah is just opportunistic as happens.
Image


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by TreesAreGreen »

Turnagain wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:40 pm
TreesAreGreen wrote:
Rubbish. I highly doubt you really believe what you posted.
You can stamp your feet and shriek, "Did not, did not" from now til forever but that isn't going to change what the Treblinka eyewitnesses said.
From:
The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

State of Israel
Ministry of Justice

The Trial Of Adolf Eichmann
Volume III

Record of Proceedings in the District Court of Jerusalem
Session 66
(Part 8 of 9)

Presiding Judge: In each such building were there several chambers?

Witness Rosenberg: I have already said that this building had three chambers. Here, there were five on this side and five on that side. Once - and I remember this well - all the gas chambers were operating. Ten thousand people entered all at once, within forty-five minutes. This was a transport of thirteen thousand persons who had arrived on that day.

Q. Was each chamber hermetically sealed?

A. Yes, every chamber was sealed absolutely hermetically.

Q. How?

A. Here, there was a kind of folding door. Before the people went inside, we closed it. This was a door that opened downwards. We extracted the "clins."

Q. What are "clins"?

A. They were pieces of wood that used to hold the doors in place. When the door was folded and fell to the bottom, there were actually two boards there. One was on top of the door and the other at the bottom, and again, with these pieces of wood, these clins, we closed it hermetically and stood to the side. After thirty to forty minutes...

Q. Did you attend to this hermetic closing?

A. Yes, Sir. We closed it from the outside. Before that, the Germans stood on the ramp and watched what was going on inside. When they said "alles schlaeft," we opened it up and stood aside for three minutes until the fumes had dispersed, and then we removed them. We threw them down from this ramp.

Presiding Judge: Mr. Rosenberg, you have concluded your testimony.
That is from the transcript of the Eichmann trial. As you can see, Rosenberg plainly states that the gas chambers were hermetically sealed. A conventionally built brick building cannot withstand the effects of a vacuum nor the pressure differential resulting from a 27 liter engine being turned into it. Even at .5 atm there would be tons of pressure exerted on every interior surface of the building.

The Treblinka gas chambers were an impossibility. They could NOT have existed as claimed by the eyewitnesses.
As I can quite clearly see, Nessie has already answered your questions that you keep on repeating in a very strange way.

Right back at you - you can stamp your feet and shriek that the gas chambers were an impossibility/never existed, but you haven’t proven that claim or went beyond posting it anonymously on an online forum.

You claim to neither know nor care where the Jews went after they were sent to Treblinka, that is your admission that you don’t have any evidence that they were not murdered at Treblinka so you stick to denying the facts (they were murdered, gas chambers were used, and so forth), how pathetic of you.

You can continue to deny the facts as much as you want. I mean, you evidently lost the plot years ago and there is definitely no chance of a recovery for you so it is only a slippery slope now which will end in you being locked away forever in a mental asylum.

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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Turnagain »

TreesAreGreen wrote:
As I can quite clearly see, Nessie has already answered your questions that you keep on repeating in a very strange way.
Yes, you obviously prefer Nessie's "what ifs" and lies to reality. Let's take it one step at a time. The gas chamber had a total capacity of 142.5 cubic meters. That's from, "A Year in Treblinka" by Yankel Wiernik. All witnesses agree that hundreds of Jews were packed into each chamber. That would take up at least 70-75% of the available space inside the chambers. At 70% filled capacity that would leave about 43 (42.75) cubic meters of space for engine exhaust.

It's claimed that a gasoline engine taken from a Soviet tank was used to produce the CO (carbon monoxide). The engine that fits that description is most likely the 400 hp M-5 which was a knockoff of the American 27 liter L-12 aircraft engine. There was another gasoline tank engine, the Mikulin 17t which was a knockoff of the BMW VI with a displacement of 46.9 liters.

Operating at full throttle, 2,000 RPM, the M-5 would produce 27 cubic liters of exhaust per minute. That would raise the internal pressure of the gas chamber by 1 atm (atmosphere) in 1 minute and 36 seconds. The engine would stall in less than half that time. That is an extension of Arnulf Neumaier's work, "The Treblinka Holocaust" http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndtreb.html chapter 3.3. Neumaier used the parameters of a diesel engine since he wrote his book before Fritz Berg blew the diesel engine exhaust as a lethal substance out of the water.

As far as Nessie's lie that the vacuum chambers were hearsay, both Bomba and Rajchman worked at the gas chambers and were eyewitnesses. Bomba claimed to have cut women's hair when they first entered the gas chamber. Rajchman claimed to have worked as a dentist at the gas chamber extracting gold teeth from the cadavers. He stated that the air was pumped out of the chamber and exhaust from the IC engine was then pumped into it. He also stated that, as an experiment, the air was evacuated from the chamber and the Jews were left inside for 48 hours. He then said that "some" Jews still showed "signs of life" after 48 hours of being exposed to a vacuum. What bullshit!

Other witnesses claim that the engine operated for anywhere from 10 minutes to 40 minutes. That, of course, is complete lunacy. Just to safely keep the engine from stalling it could be operated no longer than 45 seconds let alone keep the building from collapsing. Let's see you, Nessie or whoever prove that 45 seconds of exhaust from that tank engine would provide a LC100 of carbon monoxide in the gas chamber. As far as Nessie's lie that the vacuum chambers were just "hearsay"...pfffft!

Oh well, I'm sure that Nessie's "what ifs" and lies are far more acceptable to you than reality.

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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:22 am
Oh well, I'm sure that Nessie's "what ifs" and lies are far more acceptable to you than reality.
Surely you do not think that either Nessie or the doppelganger are interested in reality; after all, if it happened it could be done. How does he know it happened? He has witnesses and corroborating evidence, which means he has two story tellers and a train schedule including a telegram which infer a conclusion, at least in his mind; this is what he and others call irrefutable overwhelming evidence.

Around Treblinka I have proven a camp (TIII) was considered to be Vernichtungslager, thanks to US intelligence in Sept 1941, the place being called Treblinka III, the current Treblinka II a Konzentrationslager and transit camp as all KZs were; this was also in 1941, almost a year before the current TII was built.

If Nessie has so much evidence, which of these Vernichtungslager is he referring to? Treblinka II, a konzentrationslager or Treblinka III the Vernichtungslager?
It appears the rumours were in motion long before autumn 1942 when some camp was completed about exterminations.

Barbarossa was in June 1941, so the Konzentrationlager TII as mentioned by the Intelligence report was in existence at that time; therefore it would have been used as a transit lager from the General Government to Soviet Poland prior to the invasion. If you remember, the chronology of Autumn 1942 is too far out of date for that to be feasible; this would also explain the 250 Zollgrenzschutz men at Malkinia a few Km away who shifted to Bialystok in Sept 1941.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Nessie
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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:22 am
TreesAreGreen wrote:
As I can quite clearly see, Nessie has already answered your questions that you keep on repeating in a very strange way.
Yes, you obviously prefer Nessie's "what ifs" and lies to reality. Let's take it one step at a time. The gas chamber had a total capacity of 142.5 cubic meters. That's from, "A Year in Treblinka" by Yankel Wiernik. All witnesses agree that hundreds of Jews were packed into each chamber. That would take up at least 70-75% of the available space inside the chambers. At 70% filled capacity that would leave about 43 (42.75) cubic meters of space for engine exhaust.

It's claimed that a gasoline engine taken from a Soviet tank was used to produce the CO (carbon monoxide). The engine that fits that description is most likely the 400 hp M-5 which was a knockoff of the American 27 liter L-12 aircraft engine. There was another gasoline tank engine, the Mikulin 17t which was a knockoff of the BMW VI with a displacement of 46.9 liters.

Operating at full throttle, 2,000 RPM, the M-5 would produce 27 cubic liters of exhaust per minute. That would raise the internal pressure of the gas chamber by 1 atm (atmosphere) in 1 minute and 36 seconds. The engine would stall in less than half that time. That is an extension of Arnulf Neumaier's work, "The Treblinka Holocaust" http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndtreb.html chapter 3.3. Neumaier used the parameters of a diesel engine since he wrote his book before Fritz Berg blew the diesel engine exhaust as a lethal substance out of the water.
So, I was not lying when I said that the engine would stall long before the building structure would fail. Your "what if there was no vent?" fails because the Germans knew about venting gas chambers, as shown in the gassing van document.
As far as Nessie's lie that the vacuum chambers were hearsay, both Bomba and Rajchman worked at the gas chambers and were eyewitnesses. Bomba claimed to have cut women's hair when they first entered the gas chamber. Rajchman claimed to have worked as a dentist at the gas chamber extracting gold teeth from the cadavers. He stated that the air was pumped out of the chamber and exhaust from the IC engine was then pumped into it. He also stated that, as an experiment, the air was evacuated from the chamber and the Jews were left inside for 48 hours. He then said that "some" Jews still showed "signs of life" after 48 hours of being exposed to a vacuum. What bullshit!

Other witnesses claim that the engine operated for anywhere from 10 minutes to 40 minutes. That, of course, is complete lunacy. Just to safely keep the engine from stalling it could be operated no longer than 45 seconds let alone keep the building from collapsing. Let's see you, Nessie or whoever prove that 45 seconds of exhaust from that tank engine would provide a LC100 of carbon monoxide in the gas chamber. As far as Nessie's lie that the vacuum chambers were just "hearsay"...pfffft!

Oh well, I'm sure that Nessie's "what ifs" and lies are far more acceptable to you than reality.
Bomba cut hair, he never said that he actually saw a gassing. Anything he says about the functioning of the gas chamber is hearsay, he heard it from someone else, he did not see it.

Rachjman did work at the gas chambers. He described a failed attempt to pump air out, which is a source of the vacuum rumour.

Both said that main means of death was pumping gas into the chamber. Bomba did not see that, so his claim is hearsay. Rajchamn saw it, so he is an eye witness.

All of the eye witnesses who actually saw gassings, said gas was pumped in by an engine.

All of the rest who worked at the camp, doing other jobs and were never at the gassings, report hearsay and that is where the alternative claims about a vacuum (and chlorine and steam) come from. It is repeated rumour.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:32 am
All of the eye witnesses who actually saw gassings, said gas was pumped in by an engine.

All of the rest who worked at the camp, doing other jobs and were never at the gassings, report hearsay and that is where the alternative claims about a vacuum (and chlorine and steam) come from. It is repeated rumour.
At Birkenau all of the alleged gassings were by Zyklon B; it is this that should be addressed. The Zyklon B is addressed by the Intelligence report as a poisonous chemical and nothing else. The gassing scenario is also a repeated rumour. If the vacuum, steam rumour is dismissed which was presented at Nürnberg as evidence of mass killings then so must the gassing with engines which was not presented at that trial.


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