Why did the Nazis hate and kill Jews?

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Nessie
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Re: Why did the Nazis hate and kill Jews?

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:40 pm
Barbarossa or the Invasion of the Soviet Union finished 5 Dec 1941. When the Soviets fled they took the Polish populations with them; the resulting mayhem has been discussed elsewhere with millions of deaths. The result was that huge swaths of Polish territory including houses and farms were left vacant. Reports are that the farms closest to the General Government within the vicinity of the Bug were used although technically in Ostland and the RKU. That was far enough away from the fighting and Bolshevik Partizani activity except around Bialystok; Zollgrenzschutz changed their offices from Malkinia/Treblinka to Bialystok at about the same time.
After the occupation of Bialystok, the command centers Ostrow and Sokolow were on an internal border and were converted into main customs offices. This border was monitored by the HZA Siemiatycze in Bialystok from November 1942 . The BZKom were mostly dissolved and relocated to the Bialystoker area.
District Customs Commissioner Malkinia ( taken over by HZA Ostrow in the General Government)
The Bialystok district came under German civil administration, but was formally not part of the German Empire or the General Government bordering in the south .

The High Finance Presidium of East Prussia was responsible for supervising customs border guards . The Reich Ministry of Finance set up main customs offices analogous to the organization in the Reich, which also carried out tax administration in addition to border supervision. Right from the start, customs border guards were under strong pressure from partisans, some of whom were militarily organized in associations, and were heavily involved in preventing smuggling. Several customs border guards were killed, but smugglers were also shot while trying to escape. Customs border guards were allegedly moved to other areas at the end of 1942, but this cannot currently be confirmed or refuted
OK, but it does not answer my question. So, where did the Nazis relocate and find farming land for 1.274 million people, by the end of 1942? That is a huge number of people and that number of Jews would be noticed by local people, local officials and the Nazis responsible for administering the area. There would be witnesses and records of that many arrivals.

Can you even say what country they went to? Was it still in Poland, or was it Ukraine, Belorussia or one or more of the Baltic States?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.


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Huntinger
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Re: Why did the Nazis hate and kill Jews?

Post by Huntinger »

I think it was explained quite clearly; most of the areas vacated by the populations when the Russians fled and took them with them. There were no local people, they were nearly all deported. It was also explained that the Extraordinary Commission and staff of 7 million did much to hide the reality and transpose their own.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Nessie
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Re: Why did the Nazis hate and kill Jews?

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:19 pm
I think it was explained quite clearly; most of the areas vacated by the populations when the Russians fled and took them with them. There were no local people, they were nearly all deported. It was also explained that the Extraordinary Commission and staff of 7 million did much to hide the reality and transpose their own.
Unless you produce evidence for that happening, I have no reason to believe that. Your suggestion that there was a mass abandoning of farms and that the Nazis then occupied those farms with Jewish labour is impossible to have happened without leaving any evidence.

It is also contradicted by evidence from the Nazis themselves. Whilst many did flee with the Soviets, we see from documentary evidence such as the EG OSRs, the Wansee Minutes and Korherr Report, large local populations remained in Ukraine, Belorussia and the Baltic states. The EG were specifically tasked with dealing with Jews, Partisans and Communists, who were all regarded as the enemy. They were being rounded up and shot, which even most deniers accept happened, since there is so much evidence of that happening.

It makes no sense that the Nazis would round up and shoot the local Jews, as they were the enemy and then replace them with Jews from elsewhere in Europe, who they also saw as the enemy. Meanwhile, from the Wannsee Minutes to OSRs to the Stahlecker Map, reports were being made that places were now Jew free.

The whole point of the Final Solution to the Jewish Question was to make Nazi occupied Europe Jew free. Your claim of mass resettlement in Nazi occupied eastern territories is contradictory to that plan and as it is an extraordinary claim, it needs extraordinary evidence.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Why did the Nazis hate and kill Jews?

Post by Huntinger »

The poster fails to read or comprehend that Ostland and RKU which technically a part of the Reich was considered separate.
There was a specific mention of Polish Territory left vacant east of the Bug. These people were not Partizani and so were not treated as terrorists; people were shot for terrorism not for their ethnicity; it just happens that many of these terrorists were jüdische. The areas populated would likely to have been just out of the boundaries of the General Government where the so called AR border camps were.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Re: Why did the Nazis hate and kill Jews?

Post by Turnagain »

I think that you're falling into Nessie's "Where did they goooo?" trap. Nessie has presented nothing but lies and fantasies about the Jews being murdered at Treblinka and the other AR camps. He offers nothing but the unsupported trash of such as Lukaszkiewicz and Kola the Klown and CS-C's "possible graves" that have apparently now morphed into "the mass graves of Treblinka". He has no explanation for how the gas/vacuum chambers functioned amongst other impossibilities and then lurches on to declaring that "If the Jews weren't murdered, where did they go?".

The fact remains that revisionists are under no obligation to prove where the Jews went until someone offers some actual proof that they were murdered in the AR camps. That hasn't been done and never will be done. You have some evidence of the dispersal of the Jews beyond the Bug river and proof that the Soviet Special Commission has hidden and falsified records. Nessie offers nothing as proof that the Jews were murdered in the AR camps.

However, do as you please but arguing about Nessie's lies and fantasies is a piss in the wind endeavor.

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Re: Why did the Nazis hate and kill Jews?

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:49 pm
However, do as you please but arguing about Nessie's lies and fantasies is a piss in the wind endeavor.
The poster Nessie is of little consequence; it is accepted that he will ask "where did they go" until the sun rises in the West and buses run on time. ;) . The area of what is now modern day Poland from the Bug to Belarus is the point of interest; much of that area was inhabited just to the East of the Curzon line is the area of interest.
Image
The situation was extremely fluid but for a time during the war vast areas of that land was left vacant when the Soviets retreated taking millions with them. As one person said:
For a few years now, there have been ads on TV asking for donations for the Holocaust survivors in Russia. There is no mention of how these survivors got there, but the scene in the ad, that shows the tattoo on the arm of one of the Holocaust survivors in Russia, has recently been deleted from the ad.
Either way the real unravelling of history is fascinating. Flipper is just a distraction.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Nessie
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Re: Why did the Nazis hate and kill Jews?

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:49 pm
I think that you're falling into Nessie's "Where did they goooo?" trap. Nessie has presented nothing but lies and fantasies about the Jews being murdered at Treblinka and the other AR camps. He offers nothing but the unsupported trash of such as Lukaszkiewicz and Kola the Klown and CS-C's "possible graves" that have apparently now morphed into "the mass graves of Treblinka". He has no explanation for how the gas/vacuum chambers functioned amongst other impossibilities and then lurches on to declaring that "If the Jews weren't murdered, where did they go?".

The fact remains that revisionists are under no obligation to prove where the Jews went until someone offers some actual proof that they were murdered in the AR camps. That hasn't been done and never will be done. You have some evidence of the dispersal of the Jews beyond the Bug river and proof that the Soviet Special Commission has hidden and falsified records. Nessie offers nothing as proof that the Jews were murdered in the AR camps.

However, do as you please but arguing about Nessie's lies and fantasies is a piss in the wind endeavor.
Meaning, you dispute the evidence for gassings, burials and cremations and hate being asked to explain why you have no evidence of the only alternative, which is they left the camps in daily mass transports.

Huntinger claims by the end of 1942, some 1.274 million Jews were resettled in farms, in countries that were being cleared of Jews, as part of the Nazi Final Solution policy of ridding occupied territory of Jews. He claims Jews were considered the enemy one moment and then the next he has the Nazis given them farms.

You bang on about the supposed impossibility of building a gas chamber, but you ignore the impossibility of resettling so many people without leaving any evidence.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Why did the Nazis hate and kill Jews?

Post by Huntinger »

The area was cleared of partizani many who happened to be juden. There were also intense reprisal actions if attacks on personnel happened; many villages were Shtetls. The land occupied by most people were within a reasonable distance of the Bug, now still part of Poland. All of this territory was under the full control and malevolence of Comrade Stalin upon the retreat of the Reich.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Nessie
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Re: Why did the Nazis hate and kill Jews?

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:11 am
The area was cleared of partizani many who happened to be juden.
Jews in general were cleared. The EG OSR 101 in October 1941 declared Nikolayev and Kherson in Ukraine Jew free. The Jager Report recorded the deaths of c137,000 Jews in the Baltic States over 5 months in 1941. Estonia was declared Jew free in the Wannsee Minutes and on the Stahlecker map in 1942.

So, when the Final Solution was clear in its objective to rid Nazi occupied territory of Jews and numerous reports recorded Jews being cleared from those territories, why would the Nazis then reoccupy them with other Jews?
There were also intense reprisal actions if attacks on personnel happened; many villages were Shtetls. The land occupied by most people were within a reasonable distance of the Bug, now still part of Poland. All of this territory was under the full control and malevolence of Comrade Stalin upon the retreat of the Reich.
In October 1941, the Jews of Kiev were executed in reprisal for bomb attacks in the city. The Jews were one of the enemies, along with partisans and Communists and there were overlaps where some Jews were also active partisans and/or Communists.

The denier claim that the Baltic States, Ukraine and Belorussia were being both cleared of Jews and repopulated with Jews makes no sense and there is no evidence of the claimed repopulation.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Why did the Nazis hate and kill Jews?

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:09 pm
The denier claim that the Baltic States, Ukraine and Belorussia were being both cleared of Jews and repopulated with Jews makes no sense and there is no evidence of the claimed repopulation.
During the years 1939-1941, the Soviets sovietized Eastern Poland, killing educated people (Katyn massacre), and deporting hundreds of thousands of people, including women, to Siberia.
The postwar population transfers, targeting Polish nationals, were part of an official Soviet policy that affected more than one million Polish citizens, who were removed in stages from the Polish areas annexed by the Soviet Union.
Image
Ukrainian nationalists organized massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia during which (according to Grzegorz Motyka) approximately 80,000-100,000 Poles were killed. Amongst these were a high proportion of Juden.
Millions of Poles including Juden perished, however, by 1955 it is estimated 2.5 million returned just from the border regions; the fate of those in Siberia needs further investigation. As the Soviets did not distinguish Poles from juden most of the so called AR Juden were amongst them. It is seriously doubted if many Warsaw Terrorists survived execution as their actions would have resulted in terrible reprisals; from the understanding known, these executions took place some 45 km north of the camp at Treblinka. With them were Partizani from other fights.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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