Are "denier", "denial" and other related terms pejorative?

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Alonso
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Are "denier", "denial" and other related terms pejorative?

Post by Alonso »

It looks like most people who have realized that the so called holocaust is a hoax usually call ourselves revisionists, which seems to be an objective term, since we have actually revised the topic, as opposed to the vast majority who just believe what they've been told and haven't devoted any time to revise it. However, mainstream media consistently calls us deniers. According to Wikipedia "Scholars use the term denial to describe the views and methodology of Holocaust deniers in order to distinguish them from legitimate historical revisionists, who challenge orthodox interpretations of history using established historical methodologies". Leaving aside the stupidity and falsehood of that statement, I'm interested in why it is so important for the MSM and others to use the terms denier and denial.

My intuition is that these words are closely connected to the concept of delusion. Somebody who is in denial refuses to accept reality, is delusional. According to my dictionary "In psychology, denial is when a person cannot or will not accept an unpleasant truth". I. e., calling someone a denier implies that that person is delusional, is diconnected from reality. Thus, the use of these terms seems to be one of many modern manipulative uses of language, very much in line with Orwell's 1984 neolanguage.

If my interpretation is correct, denier and denial are pejorative terms, and being called a denier should be regarded as something as offensive as being called, say, an asshole, a bastard, or any other insult.

EDIT: This topic was originally intended to discuss only the offensiveness of the terms "denier" and "denial". However, it is also being used to discuss the offensiveness of other related terms, like "holohoax", "believers", "klowns", etc., which I think is fair. My personal goal when I created this thread was to decide whether I would accept that others use the terms "denier" and "denial" with me. However, I don't want to be offensive or disrespectful to anybody, regardless of their actions or ideas, so I'm certainly willing to consider if any terms I use are offensive (as opposed to simply being descriptive of a fact that might be unpleasant to some). If we agree that any of the terms I use are offensive I will definitely avoid using them in the future, and, for what it's worth, I would highly appreciate it if others did the same.
Last edited by Alonso on Fri May 15, 2020 9:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.


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Enigma Charlie
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Enigma Charlie »

Alonso wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:46 pm
It looks like most people who have realized that the so called holocaust is a hoax usually call ourselves revisionists, which seems to be an objective term, since we have actually revised the topic, as opposed to the vast majority who just believe what they've been told and haven't devoted any time to revise it. However, mainstream media consistently calls us deniers. According to Wikipedia "Scholars use the term denial to describe the views and methodology of Holocaust deniers in order to distinguish them from legitimate historical revisionists, who challenge orthodox interpretations of history using established historical methodologies". Leaving aside the stupidity and falsehood of that statement, I'm interested in why it is so important for the MSM and others to use the terms denier and denial.

My intuition is that these words are closely connected to the concept of delusion. Somebody who is in denial refuses to accept reality, is delusional. According to my dictionary "In psychology, denial is when a person cannot or will not accept an unpleasant truth". I. e., calling someone a denier implies that that person is delusional, is diconnected from reality. Thus, the use of these terms seems to be one of many modern manipulative uses of language, very much in line with Orwell's 1984 neolanguage.

If my interpretation is correct, denier and denial are pejorative terms, and being called a denier should be regarded as something as offensive as being called, say, an asshole, a bastard, or any other insult.
Holocaust deniers have not “researched” the Holocaust. They are ignorant, racist and mentally ill.

Most Holocaust deniers are arseholes, bastards or any other insult of your choice.

But, to answer your question, Holocaust deniers who like to call themselves Holocaust revisionists are not revisionists at all since they enjoy pedalling conspiracy theories, spouting racism (typically antisemitism) and deny historical facts.

Kindest regards,

Charlie

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Nessie
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Nessie »

Holocaust deniers are referred to as such because

1 - they deny the Holocaust happened
2 - rather than evidence their beliefs, they deny the evidence for gassings etc and then claim no Holocaust.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Turnagain »

Enigma Charley wrote:
But, to answer your question, Holocaust deniers who like to call themselves Holocaust revisionists are not revisionists at all since they enjoy pedalling conspiracy theories, spouting racism (typically antisemitism) and deny historical facts.
Which is why it's still claimed that 4 million were gassed at Auschwitz, 1.3 million were gassed at Majdanek, the hermetically sealed gas/vacuum chambers were fully functional at Treblinka and there's no legitimate reason to say that Aktion Reinhardt was actually named after the Reich's finance minister, Reinhardt. Oh, wait a minute...

Suuuuuure, Charley, it's all just a conspiracy theory. All of the revisions have come from the so-called legitimate hoaxers and would have occurred without any "conspiracy theories" of the revisionists. Oops, I meant "deniers". You betcha', Charley, that's the ticket.

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Nessie
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Nessie »

Holocaust deniers call themselves revisionists because none of them have a degree in history, archaeology, forensic medicine or other relevant subject for the study of what happened.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
Holocaust deniers call themselves revisionists because none of them have a degree in history, archaeology, forensic medicine or other relevant subject for the study of what happened.
Nick Kollerstrom is a historian. Arnulf Neumaier, Fritz Berg and Arthur Butz were all engineers who analyzed the technical problems of the holyhoax. Your bullshit claim doesn't hold water, Nessie. Do you have any letters you can put after your name?

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Nessie
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 5:32 pm
Nessie wrote:
Holocaust deniers call themselves revisionists because none of them have a degree in history, archaeology, forensic medicine or other relevant subject for the study of what happened.
Nick Kollerstrom is a historian. Arnulf Neumaier, Fritz Berg and Arthur Butz were all engineers who analyzed the technical problems of the holyhoax. Your bullshit claim doesn't hold water, Nessie. Do you have any letters you can put after your name?
I was thinking about you lot here. You are right, there are a couple with history degrees, Irving is the other one. Engineering is not relevant to the study of history.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

PrudentRegret
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by PrudentRegret »

Alonso wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:46 pm
My intuition is that these words are closely connected to the concept of delusion. Somebody who is in denial refuses to accept reality, is delusional. According to my dictionary "In psychology, denial is when a person cannot or will not accept an unpleasant truth". I. e., calling someone a denier implies that that person is delusional, is diconnected from reality. Thus, the use of these terms seems to be one of many modern manipulative uses of language, very much in line with Orwell's 1984 neolanguage.
It's a continuation of the Bolshevik tradition of putting political dissidents in insane asylums to psychologically torture them with gas-lighting tactics, and to discredit their ideas in society.
Psikhushka (Russian: психу́шка; [pʲsʲɪˈxuʂkə]) is a Russian ironic diminutive for psychiatric hospital.[1] In Russia, the word entered everyday vocabulary.[2] This word has been occasionally used in English, since the Soviet dissident movement and diaspora community the West used the term. In the Soviet Union, psychiatric hospitals were often used by the authorities as prisons, in order to isolate political prisoners from the rest of society, discredit their ideas, and break them physically and mentally. As such, psikhushkas were considered a form of torture.[3] The official explanation was that no sane person would be against socialism.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psikhushka

"No sane person questions the Holocaust" is the modern equivalent of "No sane person would be against socialism", and words like "denier" are specifically designed to do this.

Lol, I wrote this before I saw the very next comment, which reinforces this connection:
Enigma Charlie wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:22 pm
Holocaust deniers have not “researched” the Holocaust. They are ignorant, racist and mentally ill.
"Enigma Charlie" is merely demonstrating his propensity for this Bolshevik tactic, thank you for providing a perfect illustration of this phenomenon. You can't even help yourself, can you? It's as natural to you as breathing.

Turnagain
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
I was thinking about you lot here. You are right, there are a couple with history degrees, Irving is the other one. Engineering is not relevant to the study of history.
Oh hell no, no engineer should be allowed to critically examine the technical aspects of the holyhoax. That just ruins everything and must be absolutely prohibited. Just think what would happen if engineers actually analyzed such things as the hermetically sealed vacuum chambers or the thermodynamics of the magic Jew barbeque. Nope, no engineers allowed. Only historians and their documents need apply.

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Nessie
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 6:23 pm
Nessie wrote:
I was thinking about you lot here. You are right, there are a couple with history degrees, Irving is the other one. Engineering is not relevant to the study of history.
Oh hell no, no engineer should be allowed to critically examine the technical aspects of the holyhoax. That just ruins everything and must be absolutely prohibited. Just think what would happen if engineers actually analyzed such things as the hermetically sealed vacuum chambers or the thermodynamics of the magic Jew barbeque. Nope, no engineers allowed. Only historians and their documents need apply.
How would you rate a critique of an engineering project by a historian?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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