Are there any Reinhardt camp guards, Einsatzgruppen personnel, etc who said killings of Jews didn't happen?

Discuss the alleged Nazi genocide or other wartime atrocities without fear of censorship. No bullying of fellow posters is allowed at RODOH. If you can't be civil, please address the argument and not the participants. Do not use disparaging alterations of the user-names of other RODOH posters or their family members. Failure to heed warnings from Moderators will result in a 24 hour ban (or longer if necessary).
User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 28799
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Are there any Reinhardt camp guards, Einsatzgruppen personnel, etc who said killings of Jews didn't happen?

Post by Nessie »

It is significant that the senior Nazi defence was not knowing about or not responsible for gassings, not that it did not happen at all. If they had claimed something else happened at the AR camps and inside the kremas, they would have had to evidence that. Like denial, they would not have been able to do so, which would mean they would now also be regarded as liars.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.


Would you like to financially contribute to the upkeep of RODOH, kindly contact Scott Smith. All contributions are welcome!


User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 7092
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh. Swabia
Contact:

Re: Are there any Reinhardt camp guards, Einsatzgruppen personnel, etc who said killings of Jews didn't happen?

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:23 pm
It is significant that the senior Nazi defence was not knowing about or not responsible for gassings, not that it did not happen at all. If they had claimed something else happened at the AR camps and inside the kremas, they would have had to evidence that. Like denial, they would not have been able to do so, which would mean they would now also be regarded as liars.
The defence is not the issue here and an attempt to derail. If this was a top secret initiative then of course the senior team would not know. The question here is whether guards knew and why they did or did not confirm or deny. I think this has been explained well enough by others; the poster Nessie can take his evidencing derail and put it on his own electric train set.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

𝕳𝖚̈𝖓𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖗

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 28799
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Are there any Reinhardt camp guards, Einsatzgruppen personnel, etc who said killings of Jews didn't happen?

Post by Nessie »

It is also notable that at the Belzec camp trial, the defence of the guards and other camp staff being forced to work under duress worked, for all defendants bar one;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rials.html

"To rebut the general defence proffered collectively by the defendants, the prosecution relied on one principle – that the defendants were guilty of collective participation, even though they had not acted as instigators.
In principle, the one in charge who gives the orders, in this case Wirth or Hering, is solely responsible, the one who carries out these orders must also share the responsibility if he knows the task in hand is unlawful. The jury disagreed. At the end of January the trial collapsed and all the defendants with the exception of Oberhauser, were acquitted. The defence of “acting out of fear for life” was accepted by the court "

A defence claim of Belzec was just a transit camp or something other than a death camp was not used. Again, to have used that defence, evidence would have been required to show what did happen instead and there is none. The defendants and their defence lawyers were not so stupid as to make a claim that would just show them to be liars.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 7092
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh. Swabia
Contact:

Re: Are there any Reinhardt camp guards, Einsatzgruppen personnel, etc who said killings of Jews didn't happen?

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:50 pm
A defence claim of Belzec was just a transit camp or something other than a death camp was not used. Again, to have used that defence, evidence would have been required to show what did happen instead and there is none. The defendants and their defence lawyers were not so stupid as to make a claim that would just show them to be liars.
There could be no defence as the (((facts))) were under Judicial Notice; all the defendants could do is to mitigate their involvement.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

𝕳𝖚̈𝖓𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖗

User avatar
Scott
Site Admin
Posts: 2342
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:43 am
Location: USA, West of the Pecos
Contact:

Re: Are there any Reinhardt camp guards, Einsatzgruppen personnel, etc who said killings of Jews didn't happen?

Post by Scott »

Turnagain wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 10:46 pm

Let's not forget that Chief Justice SCOTUS, Harlan Fiske Stone, called the Nuremberg IMT a fraud. Here's a quote from him.
(Chief U.S. prosecutor) Jackson is away conducting his high-grade lynching party in Nuremberg. I don't mind what he does to the Nazis, but I hate to see the pretense that he is running a court and proceeding according to common law. This is a little too sanctimonious a fraud to meet my old-fashioned ideas.

There were others including a U.S. Congressmen who held similar views of the marsupial escapades taking place in Nuremberg.


Yes, indeed.

It is worth remembering that Senator Robert A. Taft, the leading GOP statesman until his death from cancer in 1953, and son of the former U.S. President and Supreme Court Chief Justice, William H. Taft, was a vehement critic of the Nuremberg marsupial escapes.

None other than the future U.S. President John F. Kennedy included an entire chapter on his Senate colleague, Robert Taft's courage speaking against the Nuremberg Trials in his 1956 Pulitzer Prize-winning book Profiles in Courage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profiles_in_Courage

Robert A. Taft, from Ohio, for criticizing the Nuremberg Trials for trying Nazi war criminals under ex post facto laws. Counter-criticism against Taft's statements was vital to his failure to secure the Republican nomination for president in 1948.



So, if a powerful United States Senator paid a personal cost opposing the Nuremberg Trials farce, what would happen to a humble Landser who could actually be brought before the Inquisition himself for speaking the Truth, or even speaking out at all, even 75 years after the end of the war?

:)

Image

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

User avatar
Lupus Rothstein
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri May 31, 2019 4:13 pm
Contact:

Re: Are there any Reinhardt camp guards, Einsatzgruppen personnel, etc who said killings of Jews didn't happen?

Post by Lupus Rothstein »

Where were all the Nazi justice seekers after the war ? They all meekly accepted the serious "injustice" dished out to them like the brave Ayran master race they were . Not one willing to "sacrifice their lives" to inform the world that Treblinka was nothing more than a gigantic delousing shed . Nah, instead they were quite content to accept the charge of serial mass murderers when all along they had just provided a nice hot shower, a haircut and refreshments for Jews for the forthcoming train journey to resettlementville. Amazing !

User avatar
Scott
Site Admin
Posts: 2342
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:43 am
Location: USA, West of the Pecos
Contact:

Re: Are there any Reinhardt camp guards, Einsatzgruppen personnel, etc who said killings of Jews didn't happen?

Post by Scott »

Elke, the wife of the late Fritz Berg, had her elderly father imprisoned for years in England after the war. He was a humble Kreisleiter or something similar near Stuttgart, I think. She said that he was finally released in 1951 or thereabouts.

There was no shortage of craven Jews and Communists coming out of the woodwork making wild accusations, but the old man was not a particularly plum target for a show-trial.

How did he defend against these accusations? Well, as a Lutheran he knew his Scriptures, and from the Bible as his moral text, he painstakingly argued that he did nothing wrong as a Nazi municipal official.

Eventually his captors got bored and released him without formal charges.

:)

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 28799
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Are there any Reinhardt camp guards, Einsatzgruppen personnel, etc who said killings of Jews didn't happen?

Post by Nessie »

Lupus Rothstein wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:56 pm
Where were all the Nazi justice seekers after the war ? They all meekly accepted the serious "injustice" dished out to them like the brave Ayran master race they were . Not one willing to "sacrifice their lives" to inform the world that Treblinka was nothing more than a gigantic delousing shed . Nah, instead they were quite content to accept the charge of serial mass murderers when all along they had just provided a nice hot shower, a haircut and refreshments for Jews for the forthcoming train journey to resettlementville. Amazing !
Deniers love a conspiracy and hate Jews. So they happily dismiss what is evidenced, believe what is not evidence and think that the Jews made the Nazis confess to something they did not do.

You are spot on, at some point there would have been Nazis, such as those being protected in South America after the war, who could have easily put the record straight and told the world what really did happen. But none did. That is because they knew historians would start to investigate and look for evidence to support their claims and they would come up with nothing.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
Posts: 7967
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Are there any Reinhardt camp guards, Einsatzgruppen personnel, etc who said killings of Jews didn't happen?

Post by Turnagain »

If the holyhoax actually occurred as advertised, hoaxers could come up with some Jew witnesses who told the indisputable truth about what they saw or experienced.

User avatar
torus9
Posts: 946
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Are there any Reinhardt camp guards, Einsatzgruppen personnel, etc who said killings of Jews didn't happen?

Post by torus9 »

Nessie wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 9:52 am
That is because they knew historians would start to investigate and look for evidence to support their claims and they would come up with nothing.
The following quotes are taken from Michael R. Marrus' The Holocaust In History A Yehuda Bauer approved book, written while Marrus was Dean of History at the University of Toronto.

"The Nazi's own records provide little help. Typically, Hitler and his lieutenants cloaked their most criminal activities in euphimistic language, tried strenously to keep their murderous plans secret, and were notoriously vague in delimiting lines of authority."
p. 33

"cloaked, euphemistic, notoriously vague"

Yet a mere 4 pages prior Marrus asserts;

"The deportees went directly to Auschwitz, where 1500 were immediately gassed. We usually know about such events, it should be noted, because the Nazis tell us about them, through the careful records they kept, the punctilious bookkeeping of the Final Solution." 
ibid, p.29 

"The punctilious bookkeeping of the Final Solution" should render 10,000+ publications on Auschwitz alone as mute.
Last edited by torus9 on Thu May 07, 2020 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MrOlonzo and 11 guests