Mike Peinovich refuses open discussion let alone debate on denial

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Turnagain
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Re: Mike Peinovich refuses open discussion let alone debate on denial

Post by Turnagain »

blake121666 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:20 pm
Turnagain wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:02 pm
blake121666 wrote:
The GG ghettos were cleared out by the Germans. And there is no Revisionist explanation for where they could have been sent. These 1.5M Jews are "missing", Scott. You are wrong about us not knowing about their numbers. And you are playing dumb about that.
Well, the Jews for damned sure weren't murdered in the hermetically sealed gas/vacuum chambers, buried in the nonexistent graves, exhumed by some mystery machine and cremated on the cockamamie magic Jew barbeque so what happened to them, blake?
Turnagain thinks confusion and exaggeration by witnesses is enough to show that the broad events did not occur. There's simply more work to be done to ascertain the details better, that's all.
Gee, do ya' mean that you need more Nessie like, "WHAT IFS" and "COULDA, WOULDA, SHOULDA's ? Got any of those handy, blake?


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Re: Mike Peinovich refuses open discussion let alone debate on denial

Post by Huntinger »

blake121666 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:09 pm
The "playing dumb" exemplified by Scott above is the reason Eric Hunt called it quits. He came on SSF and foolishly thought that a few million Jews' whereabouts would be easy to ascertain! As if they'd just pop up somewhere in Eastern Europe! :lol:

On considering the fuller problem and how silly his thoughts about that were, he just up and called quits on the matter! That's what it looked like to me.
The truth is quite simple. The number of people were highly exaggerated, millions were evicted or "fled" into Soviet territory across the Sans and Bug rivers; the Soviets took the majority of the Polish Population during retreat. Upon advance they annexed the areas known as the Soviet Bloc Countries; the people in question were simply absorbed into their gigantic system hidden behind the Iron Curtain. The Soviets became the new enemy; what were their crimes were placed on the shoulders of the Reich blaming the victim.

Millions perished under Soviet jurisdiction, prior to, during and after WWII. Events such as Babi Yar and most other Reich atrocities were investigated by the Soviet Extraordinary Commission accepted at face value due to Judicial Notice, as were the soap, lampshades and every other ridiculous thing forgotten about; this includes the atom bombing, and lobstering of people. The Commission also found plenty of witnesses to blame the Reich for Katyn as well, but failed.

The Holocaust was "Made in Russia"


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Scott
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Re: Mike Peinovich refuses open discussion let alone debate on denial

Post by Scott »

blake121666 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:09 pm

The "playing dumb" exemplified by Scott above is the reason Eric Hunt called it quits. He came on SSF and foolishly thought that a few million Jews' whereabouts would be easy to ascertain! As if they'd just pop up somewhere in Eastern Europe! :lol:

On considering the fuller problem and how silly his thoughts about that were, he just up and called quits on the matter! That's what it looked like to me.


I don't know what you mean by "playing dumb." I think I made an adequate explanation about the board's technical issues. If Eric wants to play paranoid in order to cover not engaging with Deniers, fine.

I'm not buying it.

I never made the case that Jews were transported to the East, btw.

I simply refuse to accept sacred premises as arguments. Tactical nihilism works both ways.

:)

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
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Re: Mike Peinovich refuses open discussion let alone debate on denial

Post by blake121666 »

Scott wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:37 pm
blake121666 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:09 pm
The "playing dumb" exemplified by Scott above is the reason Eric Hunt called it quits. He came on SSF and foolishly thought that a few million Jews' whereabouts would be easy to ascertain! As if they'd just pop up somewhere in Eastern Europe! :lol:

On considering the fuller problem and how silly his thoughts about that were, he just up and called quits on the matter! That's what it looked like to me.


I don't know what you mean by "playing dumb." I think I made an adequate explanation about the board's technical issues. If Eric wants to play paranoid in order to cover not engaging with Deniers, fine.

I'm not buying it.

I never made the case that Jews were transported to the East, btw.

I simple refuse to accept sacred premises as arguments. Tactical nihilism works both ways.

:)
I see no "sacred premise" in the well-known fact (at the time and now) of the Nazis clearing out the GG ghettos - in full by the Fall of '43. You play dumb when acting like the numbers of Jews involved is something wholly unknown (or at least unfigurable to you :roll: ). Those numbers are known quite well enough. And those numbers of Jews (at the very least) were undoubtedly "missing" at war's end.

I was referring to Eric's altogether rejection of Holocaust Revisionism - not anything to do with this board. He realized that the odds of finding what the Nazis did with those Jews, other than slaughtering them, were ZERO - and called it quits on his Holocaust Revisionism because of that.

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Re: Mike Peinovich refuses open discussion let alone debate on denial

Post by Turnagain »

blake 121666 wrote:
He realized that the odds of finding what the Nazis did with those Jews, other than slaughtering them, were ZERO
The Jews weren't slaughtered at Treblinka so what happened to them? You hoaxers sure don't like being asked, "How did the eeevul Narzis do that"?

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Re: Mike Peinovich refuses open discussion let alone debate on denial

Post by Scott »

Nessie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:16 am
Scott wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:06 am

[...]

The homicidal gassing claims are technologically illiterate AND they are complete NONSENSE.


You chose to interpret some of the witness evidence in a way that makes it appear that the gassings were impossible. You fail to understand that is why arguments from incredulity are considered logical fallacies.


The obvious technical paths for homicidal gassings were NOT TAKEN and obviously NOT EVEN CONSIDERED.

I am NOT saying that homicidal gassings are impossible.

That is the mistake that Faurisson and Leuchter made that rankled Fritz Berg no end.

Furthermore, CONTRARY to what Nick Terry claimed in some posts at Skeptics Forum shortly after Mr. Berg's death, the latter did NOT even claim "impossibility" in his original 1984 published essay on the problem of the Diesel gaschambers.

What Mr. Berg actually DID in 1984 was outline in detail the technical PROBLEMS involved from the perspective of a professional engineer, and why the notion that generating gas to kill people with a diesel engine was just ABSURD. And stupid!

Berg outlined the technical issues in detail that any reasonably intelligent mechanic would understand, and certainly the Germans did. Yiddish storytellers and Soviet/Allied atrocity propagandists, not so much.

Prof. Arthur Butz and Prof. Robert Faurisson noting that fumigation and homicidal gassing were two different things, ultimately led to Fred Leuchter and some skeptical forensic analysis, possibly for the first time ever. Mr. Leuchter DID bring some refreshing perspectives to the homicidal gaschamber problem as an American execution expert. Bravo!

And, YES, Holocaust skeptics made plenty of serious technical and conceptual errors framing the issue, but that is not the main point.

Nessie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:16 am
Scott wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:06 am

The Germans KNEW HOW TO FUMIGATE, yet their accusers pass their dumb LIES like Vaudevillian spiel.


Exactly, the Germans knew how to build functioning homicidal gas chambers, it was not beyond their technical ability. Just because some witnesses made mistakes describing those places does not therefore mean the Germans could not have built them.


The LIE-witnesses did more than make some descriptive mistakes. Besides, in this matter, all corroboration other than rumors and legend is extremely thin beer. Indeed, the homicidal gassing narrative is in reality just a big CARGO CULT.


Image

Nessie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:16 am

Your argument is the same as arguing that unless witnesses to a fatal car crash can describe accurately how the cars worked and what they looked like, there were no fatalities. It is a stupid argument.


Not quite. These things are over-the-top STUPID and impossible AS ALLEGED.

There is a big difference between writing a screenplay, and actually making something to do something as alleged.

:)


“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

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Re: Mike Peinovich refuses open discussion let alone debate on denial

Post by Scott »

Nessie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:12 am

I responded to Scott, who has pointed out that he has taken the debate off topic, so I will not respond any more to the off topic issues he raised here.


No big deal. Since Eric seems to have bailed anyway, I don't think that we have to be too rigid as long as there isn't a lot of pointless obfuscation and flaming, etc.

If Eric ever resurfaces, I guess we can always split the thread if we have to or even start a new one.

:)

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

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Re: Mike Peinovich refuses open discussion let alone debate on denial

Post by Billy »

Scott wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 2:15 am
Nessie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:12 am

I responded to Scott, who has pointed out that he has taken the debate off topic, so I will not respond any more to the off topic issues he raised here.


No big deal. Since Eric seems to have bailed anyway, I don't think that we have to be too rigid as long as there isn't a lot of pointless obfuscation and flaming, etc.

If Eric ever resurfaces, I guess we can always split the thread if we have to or even start a new one.

:)
Unfortunately Eric has a history of bailing on things, on revisionism he bailed. Bailing on his websites he's created in the past. He bailed on the CODOH forum (claiming he couldn't log in, but the admin called him on it). And now bailing from this forum.

It's too bad, I had some interesting questions for him after I had gone through his 2014 interview with Dawson.

And I don't wish the guy any ill will. I just think he got in over his head and he's trying to somehow carve out a new life for himself somehow.

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Re: Mike Peinovich refuses open discussion let alone debate on denial

Post by Nessie »

Scott wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 1:58 am
Nessie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:16 am
Scott wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:06 am

[...]

The homicidal gassing claims are technologically illiterate AND they are complete NONSENSE.


You chose to interpret some of the witness evidence in a way that makes it appear that the gassings were impossible. You fail to understand that is why arguments from incredulity are considered logical fallacies.


The obvious technical paths for homicidal gassings were NOT TAKEN and obviously NOT EVEN CONSIDERED.

I am NOT saying that homicidal gassings are impossible.....
OK, so you accept that a gas chamber with gas from a petrol engine would work and Zyklon B would kill people locked into a secured space would kill.
Nessie wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:16 am

Your argument is the same as arguing that unless witnesses to a fatal car crash can describe accurately how the cars worked and what they looked like, there were no fatalities. It is a stupid argument.


Not quite. These things are over-the-top STUPID and impossible AS ALLEGED.

There is a big difference between writing a screenplay, and actually making something to do something as alleged.
Which goes back to my original point. Your objection to the gassings is based on how you have interpreted what some witnesses said. But, as was shown with Berg, your interpretations are wrong. Berg failed to properly establish what is hearsay and what is eyewitness evidence, and he misinterpreted medical evidence regarding the time lividity takes to appear.

Trying to determine what happened based on your opinion of the evidence is unreliable. A far more reliable method is to look for what is corroborated by multiple sources of evidence and what can be eliminated due to a lack of evidence.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Mike Peinovich refuses open discussion let alone debate on denial

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
Trying to determine what happened based on your opinion of the evidence is unreliable. A far more reliable method is to look for what is corroborated by multiple sources of evidence and what can be eliminated due to a lack of evidence.
That's a good 'un, Nessie. A real hoot considering it's your opinion of what the witnesses saw that determined if the gas/vacuum chambers actually existed. After all, it's your opinion that the witnesses COULDA just missed seeing the ventilation apparatus that allowed the gas vacuum chambers to operate. Bomba claimed to have worked inside the gas/vacuum chamber cutting the women's hair but it's your opinion that he COULDA lied and didn't cut any hair inside the gas chamber or see the Germans suffocate any Jews with a vacuum. Of course when it's your opinion of what the witnesses claimed then that becomes fact. You betcha', Nessie, throw in a few "WHAT IFS" and "COULDA WOUlDA's" and Bobs your uncle.

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