Treblinka - transit camp or extermination camp?

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Lupus Rothstein
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Re: Treblinka - transit camp or extermination camp?

Post by Lupus Rothstein »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 9:38 pm
Lupus wrote:
What has the other experiment got to do with anything ?
There was just one experiment where where two cars and two sheep were burned. Each car had a sheep carcass put in it and was set on fire. Several gallons of gasoline were used in the experiment.
You dishonestly tried to inflate the amount of fuel used in the key experiment. The key experiment used 2.75 gallons, but you keep babbling on about several gallons. No-one cares about fuel used in the other experiment, so why are you continuing to combine the two fuel amounts ? Looks like another case of being caught with your pants down , after tampering with the evidence and telling more porkies. :oops:
Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 9:38 pm
The key to this is that a fire was present for 3 hours under the sheep, and was being sustained by the fat dripping onto it. So imagine this happening for 1,000-2,000 bodies on a rail, with fat dripping onto the wood and rags and fuel.
The key to that is your runaway imagination, Lupus. The real key is the fact that neither sheep carcass was completely cremated even using gasoline and the car's interiors for fuel. Your "what if" and "coulda woulda" problem sounds almost as severe as Nessie's.
Turnagain can't explain why a fire would be sustained under the sheep for 3 hours. He's basically shitting his pants even contemplating exploring the scenario here :lol: :lol:

He then desperately maintains his stance over the 'partially' cremated state of the sheep. Not as though this help him in any way. For one the fire was put out after 3 hours after 70% of the carcass had been consumed. If that sheep was a Jew in Treblinka where the fires lasted all night , then even more of its carcass would have been consumed . Also, Turnagain ignores the experiments conclusion , which I have quoted below :
The findings show that for a ewe, and presumably for a human also, the body can be rather thoroughly consumed by fire by its own fat.....
Read it and weep Turnagain, your once loyal friend "science" has turned round and bit you on the ass so bad that you won't be able to sit down for a week :lol: :lol:
Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 9:38 pm
You originally claimed that the gasoline was only used in the early cremations pre Floss, so i produced two witnesses who have proven you wrong.
Before the magic Jew barbeque, gasoline was used in an attempt to burn the cadavers. Pouring gasoline on the cadavers didn't work. With the magic Jew barbeque supposedly in place, there are some claims that the kindling used to set the bodies ablaze was doused with gasoline. Can you comprehend the difference, Lupus? In the first instance, the cadavers had gasoline poured on them and in the second, the kindling may or may not have had gasoline poured on it.
The only thing I can comprehend here is the falseness of your early claim that gasoline was only used pre Floss. You made this false claim to try and demonstrate that the sheep experiment could not be compared to the Treblinka cremations . In your simple but dishonest mind, you thought that if no fuel was used at Treblinka post Floss but was used in the experiment, then the two events would be incomparable therefore the experiment can be dismissed . But unfortunately for you, I caught you out lying again. :roll:
Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 9:38 pm
So, firstly your attempt at discrediting Finkelstein has failed. No-one knows how many pits there were exactly, and he didn't say all the pits could hold 200,000, that was you deliberately distorting his words. His observations on pit numbers have no bearing on his observations over the type of fuel used. And secondly you are basically silent on Matthes, who corroborates Finkelstein.
Finklestein stated that there were 21 pits or graves. He didn't say "about 20" or "a bunch of graves", he flatly stated that there were 21 graves. He did equivocate about the number of cadavers in each grave. Finklestein said 200,000 cadavers but even if he was off by as many as 50,000 cadavers, there would still be over 3 million victims. Finklestein was lying through his teeth.

Matthes corroborated nothing. Finklestein claimed that wood or rags were used for kindling. Matthes claimed that "brushwood" was used for kindling. Rajchman said that twigs the size of toothpicks were used while Wiernik said no kindling at all was used. Steiner said that enough wood to build some small campfires was used. Take your pick, Lupus.
Finkelstein was not lying as he never claimed anything about the death toll. He was not lying about the number of graves too. That is the number he thought was right. You can't prove otherwise.

Matthes did corroborate Finkesltein on the key subject matter of this discussion, which was the use of liquid fuel. So you have lied again. Tut tut . This is not looking good on your CV is it, mate ? :o

Yep, all the others confirmed that wood or branches were used as fuel. Obviously enough was used as otherwise there would not be the constant smells and flames and smoke witnessed by many witnesses. The fact that the Floss situation was confirmed by both Nazis and Jews also confirms the reality of the events too. Unless you can prove or demonstrate why all these witnesses would lie or be mistaken about such an event then you really need to reduce your imbecilic rants drastically.

Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 9:38 pm
But if you want to pursue this even further, I've got some more bad news for you :cry: Yep, Rajchmann confirms the following on page 67 of his book "Treblinka - A Survivors Memory" :

"The body parts of the corpses that had been incinerated in the ovens often kept their shape. It was not uncommon to take out whole charred heads,feet,bones etc."

Oh dear Turnagain, looks like whichever way you turn you're still up to your neck in the brown stuff :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
What part of, "The body parts of the corpses that had been incinerated..." don't you understand, Lupus? According to Rajchman no parts of the bodies remained intact eg. hadn't been burned or incinerated. They could retain their shape but had nevertheless been incinerated or cremated. Your sheep in the car burning experiment had substantial body mass that hadn't been burned. Are you actually that stupid or are you being willfully obtuse?
As previously noted, according to Rajchamnn there were sometimes whole charred heads and feet etc remaining, so what's your problem with this ? If you are fantasizing about whole parts of bodies being untouched by the fire, like the sheep in the experiment then you need to wake up and smell the coffee. Considering the ferocity of the cremations this scenario would be just a figment of your warped imagination. As I have already pointed out to you, the sheep had unburnt parts remaining because of the relatively reduced cremation period, ie 3 hours compared with all night at Treblinka . Has this simple but inconvenient fact sunk in yet ? :roll:
Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 9:38 pm
Don't forget that on pages 76-77 (pdf version) Rajchman regales us with the tale of the burning blood. The "roast" had been moved too close to the grave and the wind carried the flames over the grave containing 250,000 dead Jews and caught their blood on fire. The blood burned all night and the next day and the eeevul Narzis all came to marvel at the sight.

So what's your point ? :roll:
Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 9:38 pm
No cock up re Rajchmann and Leleko as explained above.
You explained nothing, Lupus. In fact you clarified what a mess and cockup you made of what was quoted. Your claim about the sheep is both mindless and worthless. Neither carcass was completely incinerated. Geez, doncha' feel really stooooopid now?
Oh dear, not too sure you're gonna be as cocky when you realise I've just demolished your nonsense and exposed you as a liar and fraud. Still, I'm especially looking forward to you explaining how a fire was sustained under the sheep for 3 hours, with hardly any fuel other than the char and ash underneath. This is gonna be a right cracker of a bullshit damage limitation job , aint that right Turnagain ?? Good luck with that :lol: :lol:


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Huntinger
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Re: Treblinka - transit camp or extermination camp?

Post by Huntinger »

Above post is total nonsense with no idea of the energy within fuels; this case lipids. Poster is continuing this to inflame.
Anyway if this continues, could it be transferred to the Ovens thread.


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Turnagain
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Re: Treblinka - transit camp or extermination camp?

Post by Turnagain »

Lupus frantically weasel dodges through another long-winded post. First of all, the primary purpose of the experiment was to determine the use of accelerants in arson cases. Lupus wrote:
You dishonestly tried to inflate the amount of fuel used in the key experiment. The key experiment used 2.75 gallons, but you keep babbling on about several gallons.
The first car in the experiment used 6 quarts of gasoline and the fire was extinguished after about an hour of burning. The second car had 11 quarts of gasoline poured in the interior and was allowed to burn itself out. Lupus' contention that the gasoline used to burn the first car "didn't count" and I'm lying about "several gallons" is just simple minded bullshit.
Turnagain can't explain why a fire would be sustained under the sheep for 3 hours. He's basically shitting his pants even contemplating exploring the scenario here :lol: :lol:

He then desperately maintains his stance over the 'partially' cremated state of the sheep. Not as though this help him in any way. For one the fire was put out after 3 hours after 70% of the carcass had been consumed.
No, the fire was extinguished in the first car after about 1 hour. The fire in the second car was allowed to burn itself out. A quote from the article:
...a modest fire continued around the carcass for more than three hours.
After the carcass quit burning, there was still 50 lbs of intact carcass left. Lupus' apparently contends that even though the sheep's carcass quit burning after about 3 hours and left 50 lbs of intact carcass, the 2,000 to 3,000 dead Jews would burn all night and leave nothing but ashes.
Read it and weep Turnagain, your once loyal friend "science" has turned round and bit you on the ass so bad that you won't be able to sit down for a week :lol:
Again, no. That most of a body can be burned using it's own fat under certain conditions, that in no way describes the complete cremation of thousands of bodies at a time piled onto a railroad rail grate and set ablaze with anything from twigs the size of toothpicks to brush/brushwood with or without gasoline thrown on it.

Following the findings of the Ettling experiment, 2,500 cadavers weighing an average of 45 kg would reduce down to 33,750 kg (73,385 lbs) of remains. Consider any average weight for the cadavers you wish and you still end up with thousands of kg of remains. Rajchman declared that the cremains were pulverized down to the consistency of cigarette ash.

I wrote:
Before the magic Jew barbeque, gasoline was used in an attempt to burn the cadavers. Pouring gasoline on the cadavers didn't work. With the magic Jew barbeque supposedly in place, there are some claims that the kindling used to set the bodies ablaze was doused with gasoline. Can you comprehend the difference, Lupus? In the first instance, the cadavers had gasoline poured on them and in the second, the kindling may or may not have had gasoline poured on it.
Nope, Lupus can't comprehend that simple fact. I'll try again. Do you understand that an attempt was made to burn the cadavers before Floss and his magic Jew barbeque supposedly arrived at Treblinka? Gasoline was used in a failed attempt to cremate the bodies. Try to pay attention, Lupus, and you can comprehend how the FIRST attempt at cremating the cadavers using gasoline didn't work that well. It used too much gasoline and the bodies wouldn't burn that well. Can you comprehend that the FIRST attempt to cremate bodies failed?

Then came Floss. His magic Jew barbeque obviated any need for fuel to cremate the cadavers. He knew the secret of how to arrange the bodies so that they would burn on their own after being set ablaze with kindling. The kindling was described variously by the alleged witnesses and in some instances gasoline was used on the kindling. Some witnesses described the kindling as not having an acelerant poured on it. However, the bodies didn't have gasoline or any other acelerant poured on them. Can you comprehend that difference, Lupus? In the first failed attempt to burn the bodies gasoline was used on the cadavers themselves. With the Floss method, some claim that gasoline was used on the kindling and other witnesses don't. NOBODY claimed that the cadavers themselves had gasoline or some other acelerant poured on them.

Lupus wrote:
The only thing I can comprehend here is the falseness of your early claim that gasoline was only used pre Floss.
Your babbling makes no sense to me at all. Please read the above and at least try to concentrate on what's being said.
Finkelstein was not lying as he never claimed anything about the death toll. He was not lying about the number of graves too. That is the number he thought was right. You can't prove otherwise.
Finklestein claimed that there were 21 graves with as many as 200,000 bodies per grave. That's what he SAID in the quote I posted. Your claim that he "thought" 21 was the correct number of graves is just another example of your mindless bullshit. I don't have to "prove" anything. It's what Finklestein SAID in a court deposition.
Matthes did corroborate Finkesltein on the key subject matter of this discussion, which was the use of liquid fuel. So you have lied again. Tut tut . This is not looking good on your CV is it, mate ?
Some witnesses said that gasoline was used on the kindling, others said the kindling was simply lit with a match. What is "key" is your utterly mindless claptrap. Your apparently want to cherry pick the testimony of Finklestein and Matthes and ignore the testimony of Rajchman, Wiernik, et al.
Yep, all the others confirmed that wood or branches were used as fuel.
Nope, twigs, brushwood or "enough wood to build some small campfires" was used as KINDLING to set the bodies ablaze. After the bodies were set ablaze, the fat from the first layer of fat women was sufficient to cremate the bulk of the cadavers. That presupposes that the draglines could exhume whole bodies from the graves. That presupposition is bullshit, Lupus. That the nonexistent fat women contained enough caloric energy to cremate some 2,500 cadavers is an extreme quantity of bullshit. I don't call it the magic Jew barbeque for nothing, Lupus.
As previously noted, according to Rajchamnn there were sometimes whole charred heads and feet etc remaining, so what's your problem with this ?
Nothing. Rajchman claimed that the cremated cadavers sometimes retained their skeletal form. Your attempt to equate the intact portions of the sheep carcasses to Rajchman's fully cremated cadavers is what's idiotic. Idiocy seems to be your specialty, Lupus.
As I have already pointed out to you, the sheep had unburnt parts remaining because of the relatively reduced cremation period, ie 3 hours compared with all night at Treblinka . Has this simple but inconvenient fact sunk in yet ?
No, as I've already pointed out, the blaze in the second car was allowed to burn itself out. Only the blaze in the first car was extinguished. Once again, here's the quote:
...a modest fire continued around the carcass for more than three hours.
What part of that don't you understand, Lupus? The "modest fire" was allowed to burn at its own pace until it went out. At that point, 50 lbs of intact carcass remained.
So what's your point ?
Rajchman was simply fantasizing. IOW, he was lying like a rug. Blood is NOT flammable but you klowns continue to cite this fool. Rajchman claimed that the bodies on the magic Jew barbeque were set ablaze with some twigs and withing ten minutes there was a roaring fire that couldn't be approached any closer than 50 meters. That kinda' knocks your theory that the cadavers burned slowly for the entire night into a cocked hat, Lupus. Maybe you should put Rajchman on "ignore", Lupus.
Oh dear, not too sure you're gonna be as cocky when you realise I've just demolished your nonsense and exposed you as a liar and fraud. Still, I'm especially looking forward to you explaining how a fire was sustained under the sheep for 3 hours, with hardly any fuel other than the char and ash underneath.
Well, I'm sure that, like Herman Rosenblatt, that's true in your own mind. Rational people will think otherwise. Your claims for the Ettling experiment is mostly a figment of your imagination. For example, your claim that the burning sheep was extinguished is bullshit. For another, you use only the first page of the actual report. That is an excerpt from a rather expensive research site. $29.95 for a two day look at the site. Only one page is shown and ends,
A necessary condition is that the body be suspended in such a way that it is over the fire which is fed...
Lupus then takes a giant leap from a sheep's carcass which remained partially intact to hundreds of thousands of human cadavers completely consuming themselves on the magic Jew barbeque.

Oh well, so it goes in holyhoax la-la land.

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Re: Treblinka - transit camp or extermination camp?

Post by Enigma Charlie »

Lupus, I don’t know why you bother with such a crank like Turnagain.

Turnagain is a vile person who is a neo-Nazi and mentally ill.

Then again, everyone needs a laugh every now and then. :lol:

It’s hilarious reading the posts from Turnagain because he’s a great example of the ignorance of a Holocaust denier.

Kindest regards,

Charlie

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Re: Treblinka - transit camp or extermination camp?

Post by Huntinger »

Enigma Charlie wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:04 am
Turnagain is a vile person who is a neo-Nazi and mentally ill.
Ad hominem attack for no reason. Expected. Reported.


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Turnagain
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Re: Treblinka - transit camp or extermination camp?

Post by Turnagain »

Huntinger wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:10 am
Enigma Charlie wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:04 am
Turnagain is a vile person who is a neo-Nazi and mentally ill.
Ad hominem attack for no reason. Expected. Reported.
Charlie has no rebuttal, nothing of any value to say so resorts to an ad hominem, an insult (shrug). As you say, it's expected.

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Re: Treblinka - transit camp or extermination camp?

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:32 am
Charlie has no rebuttal, nothing of any value to say so resorts to an ad hominem, an insult (shrug). As you say, it's expected.
Jude
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Turnagain
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Re: Treblinka - transit camp or extermination camp?

Post by Turnagain »

True but I feel like I need an intern to take on that kind of scut work.

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Re: Treblinka - transit camp or extermination camp?

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:08 am
True but I feel like I need an intern to take on that kind of scut work.
When the politikal change happens, it will be sudden; like cockroaches these Juden will be scurrying into every dark corner.
As mentioned they gave the blue print for what will be "the final solution"
However, that day of the blade is not relevant to whether or not Treblinka was a customs facility. The only reason why 250 Zoll officers were there, was to check on troops and others leaving the area.


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Re: Treblinka - transit camp or extermination camp?

Post by Nessie »

Page after page of the same repeated denier reason why they dispute the evidence for TII being a death camp, without producing any evidence that it had another function.

Rather than go over that same evidence again, could the deniers here start to list their evidence as to what did happen inside TII.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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