Where did they go

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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:49 am
Stop dodging and show me where the 1.274 million sent to the AR camps by the Nazis up to the end of 1942 went. You say they were not gassed, so where did they go?
The poster says this as though this has not been said a thousand times. Obviously more work needs to be done to clarify the situation; even then a pick axe might be needed to get through the frozen synapses.
This has been clearly explained: Russia. About 2.7 million of them. It is this issue the poster has to get his head around as much more evidence has come in not yet posted. This is gonna hurt. :mrgreen:
The SU took Jews who fled the Nazis. That still left many Jews under Nazi control. It is those Jews who I want to know, where did they go?

Start your answer with the 1.274 million Jews that the Nazis had registered, sent to ghettos and then transported to the AR camps up to the end of 1942. Where were they being accommodated in 1943?

Your answer needs to be evidenced, witness and documents are fine, including secondary sources. You also need to show that the camp you say they went to was big enough to have accommodated them, along with its existing population.

If you are not up to the job, just drop out of the debate. Or you can admit it did not happen and that those people disappeared inside the AR camps, which means the evidence of gassings is correct and you have been wrong.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Turnagain
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
I summarise a range of from 6,500 to 8000 as c7000. The transports you refer to are in the range and it would mean c8000 left the camps.
Nessie quoted a tally of 7,655 deportees leaving Treblinka which he claims is about 8,000 deportees. The three trainloads referenced by the deportees? Pffffft! They left from Malkinia or the work camp. What they said is irrelevant. Nessie has decreed that no barracks for deportees existed at T-II. What Nessie decrees becomes absolute fact. Well, to Nessie, that is. Can't allow mere witness testimony to get in the way of Nessie's decrees and claims.
Bomba did not see the vacuum or gassings happen. He cut hair, he is using hearsay.
Bomba said that he cut the women's hair and stepped out of the gas/vacuum chamber while the women were gassed/vacuumed. He obviously kept his eyes closed during the time he spent waiting while the people were gassed/vacuumed. Nessie has decreed that Bomba's testimony is hearsay and we all know that what Nessie decrees become absolute fact. If you don't believe that he will stamp his feet and shriek, "Is too, is too".
Rajchman said a vacuum was tried but failed and that air was pumped out before gas was pumped in.
No, Rajchman SAID that after spending two days in a vacuum, some Jews "showed signs of life". The use of a vacuum was conducted as an experiment according to Rajchman. Are you going to decree otherwise, Nessie?
The actual eye witnesses, who saw what was happening, agree.
The "actual eye witnesses" also agreed that the brick gas chamber was hermetically sealed. Hide and watch, folks, Nessie will now decree otherwise. Those witnesses just made a little (heh-heh) "mistake".
You are picking out hyperbole and you ignore more matter of fact testimony that wood was used to start the fire and then the bodies caught alight and burned.
Of course, it was just "hyperbole". Other witnesses claimed that the kindling was "brush" or "brushwood" with some saying that it even had some gasoline thrown on it.
That is explained by the same way a fire it works and how any corpse with 10-20% fat has a means to burn.
Nessie refuses to admit that cremation is an endothermic not exothermic process. He simply stamps his feet and shrieks, "Is too, is too". What can be said in the face of such intransigent stupidity?
I presume the fear was that if a German woman reported back that Nazis were gassing people, she might be believed, compared to Polish Jews.
I gotta' admit, that's best "what if" I've ever heard from you. Of course the fact that Wiernik had no way of knowing that years later some Jews would rat him out on nobody being allowed to leave T-II alive so just blithely lied about the nonexistent German woman and her two children being killed for security reasons never crossed your mind. Nah, ol' Wiernik wouldn't ever tell such a porker. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.

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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

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Turnagain wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:47 am
Nessie wrote:
I summarise a range of from 6,500 to 8000 as c7000. The transports you refer to are in the range and it would mean c8000 left the camps.
Nessie quoted a tally of 7,655 deportees leaving Treblinka which he claims is about 8,000 deportees.
The full quote, which you chopped to create a false impression is "That would give a complete total of 7655 including the child transport. Based on that source, I would now revise the claim I was using from TSF of 2-3000 to 6,500 - 8000" I doubt a child transport left TII, so the upper end is 8000 including the three full trains you claim left TII.
The three trainloads referenced by the deportees? Pffffft! They left from Malkinia or the work camp. What they said is irrelevant.
No, what they said and did not say is why I doubt they were at TII.
Nessie has decreed that no barracks for deportees existed at T-II. What Nessie decrees becomes absolute fact. Well, to Nessie, that is. Can't allow mere witness testimony to get in the way of Nessie's decrees and claims.
My so called decrees are based on what the evidence tells us. Yiu are the one who demands belief in what is not evidenced (showering and mass departures), not me.
Bomba did not see the vacuum or gassings happen. He cut hair, he is using hearsay.
Bomba said that he cut the women's hair and stepped out of the gas/vacuum chamber while the women were gassed/vacuumed. He obviously kept his eyes closed during the time he spent waiting while the people were gassed/vacuumed. Nessie has decreed that Bomba's testimony is hearsay and we all know that what Nessie decrees become absolute fact. If you don't believe that he will stamp his feet and shriek, "Is too, is too".
He not only stepped out, he did not say anything about the removal of the bodies. He did not see an actual gassing. He was not working at the gas chambers when gassings took place. He specifically said that he left when that happened.
Rajchman said a vacuum was tried but failed and that air was pumped out before gas was pumped in.
No, Rajchman SAID that after spending two days in a vacuum, some Jews "showed signs of life". The use of a vacuum was conducted as an experiment according to Rajchman. Are you going to decree otherwise, Nessie?
Which is what I said when I said it was tried and failed :roll: He then went on to also say air was pumped out and then gas pumped in.
The actual eye witnesses, who saw what was happening, agree.
The "actual eye witnesses" also agreed that the brick gas chamber was hermetically sealed. Hide and watch, folks, Nessie will now decree otherwise. Those witnesses just made a little (heh-heh) "mistake".
Hermetic sealing makes sense. There is no mistake there by the witnesses. You mistakenly think that the gas chambers would have blown up!
You are picking out hyperbole and you ignore more matter of fact testimony that wood was used to start the fire and then the bodies caught alight and burned.
Of course, it was just "hyperbole". Other witnesses claimed that the kindling was "brush" or "brushwood" with some saying that it even had some gasoline thrown on it.
Which means that not as much wood as you think is needed, is used to start the bodies burning.
That is explained by the same way a fire it works and how any corpse with 10-20% fat has a means to burn.
Nessie refuses to admit that cremation is an endothermic not exothermic process. He simply stamps his feet and shrieks, "Is too, is too". What can be said in the face of such intransigent stupidity?
The bodies absorb heat from the wood under the pyre, which burns at over 1000 degrees and constantly draws in oxygen, like a fire pit. That heat dries out and sets the lower bodies on fire, the fat in those bodies fuels those bodies burning and that heat and fire spreads around the pyre till all the bodies burn.

It does not matter that you think it is not possible, it is evidenced to have happened.
I presume the fear was that if a German woman reported back that Nazis were gassing people, she might be believed, compared to Polish Jews.
I gotta' admit, that's best "what if" I've ever heard from you. Of course the fact that Wiernik had no way of knowing that years later some Jews would rat him out on nobody being allowed to leave T-II alive so just blithely lied about the nonexistent German woman and her two children being killed for security reasons never crossed your mind. Nah, ol' Wiernik wouldn't ever tell such a porker. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
It is not clear what you are wittering about. What is obvious is that have edited out the part of my post that is most on topic as you repeatedly dodge;

Now, stop dodging the impossibility of transporting and accommodating so many people without leaving any evidence.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:23 pm
The bodies absorb heat from the wood under the pyre, which burns at over 1000 degrees and constantly draws in oxygen, like a fire pit. That heat dries out and sets the lower bodies on fire, the fat in those bodies fuels those bodies burning and that heat and fire spreads around the pyre till all the bodies burn.
It does not matter that you think it is not possible, it is evidenced to have happened.
There are scientific understanding of the laws of nature that cannot be violated. One may wish to believe in the world of magyke, Harry Potter, Merlin and Gandalf; the reality is that those worlds are fantasy. The statement above shows that this poster should not really be debating or discussing on this forum; la la land is more rational than the fantasy make believe universe this poster inhabits.

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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

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Huntinger wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:22 pm
Nessie wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:23 pm
The bodies absorb heat from the wood under the pyre, which burns at over 1000 degrees and constantly draws in oxygen, like a fire pit. That heat dries out and sets the lower bodies on fire, the fat in those bodies fuels those bodies burning and that heat and fire spreads around the pyre till all the bodies burn.
It does not matter that you think it is not possible, it is evidenced to have happened.
There are scientific understanding of the laws of nature that cannot be violated. One may wish to believe in the world of magyke, Harry Potter, Merlin and Gandalf; the reality is that those worlds are fantasy. The statement above shows that this poster should not really be debating or discussing on this forum; la la land is more rational than the fantasy make believe universe this poster inhabits.
Build a fire pit, set the wood under the grill alight with the assistance of some petrol, let the wood go to embers slowly burning at over 1000 degrees. What happens to anything flesh and bone that is on top of the grill?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:10 pm
Build a fire pit, set the wood under the grill alight with the assistance of some petrol, let the wood go to embers slowly burning at over 1000 degrees. What happens to anything flesh and bone that is on top of the grill?
A small amount of flesh like a sausage or chop would grill which is why BBQ works. However, water does not burn. 2000 bodies contain about 90 tonne of water which must be removed before the temp of the body can get high enough to combust. This is why you can make a paper cup, put it over a candle and the paper will not burn. A little bit of scientific knowledge might help this poster.
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Turnagain
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Turnagain »

I don't think that science or mathematics is relevant to Nessie or to most other hoaxers for that matter. According to the orthodox narrative, 2-3,000 cadavers were placed on a grate about 30 meters long constructed from railroad rails and pylons either 50 or 70 cm high. A minor amount of kindling was placed under the grate and set ablaze. The bodies caught fire and cremated themselves. The fact that what is described is an impossibility is irrelevant. If it happened, it was possible.

Nessie is indifferent to the fact that the hermetically sealed gas/vacuum chamber is equally impossible. It doesn't matter. Witnesses were just engaging in hyperbole, were exaggerating or just plain made a mistake. The official narrative is that the victims were gassed so if it happened, it was possible. The truth is NOT observable scientific facts. The truth is the holyhoax narrative and for Nessie, so it shall remain. Reality isn't allowed to intrude, to rear it's ugly head. Nessie has the faith of a religious fundamentalist and such faith will not be shaken. The eeevul Narzis gassed 6 million Jews and that's that. So there.

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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:42 pm
Nessie wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:10 pm
Build a fire pit, set the wood under the grill alight with the assistance of some petrol, let the wood go to embers slowly burning at over 1000 degrees. What happens to anything flesh and bone that is on top of the grill?
A small amount of flesh like a sausage or chop would grill which is why BBQ works. However, water does not burn. 2000 bodies contain about 90 tonne of water which must be removed before the temp of the body can get high enough to combust. This is why you can make a paper cup, put it over a candle and the paper will not burn. A little bit of scientific knowledge might help this poster.
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This is now way off topic.

What happened to the 1.274 million Jews that the Nazis had registered and rounded up in ghettos, who they then sent to AR camps between December 1941 and the end of 1942?

Stick to that group, who were in Nazi custody and do not dodge by going back earlier to Jews who escaped the Nazis or had been under Soviet rule since Sept 1939.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:25 pm
I don't think that science or mathematics is relevant to Nessie or to most other hoaxers for that matter. According to the orthodox narrative, 2-3,000 cadavers were placed on a grate about 30 meters long constructed from railroad rails and pylons either 50 or 70 cm high. A minor amount of kindling was placed under the grate and set ablaze. The bodies caught fire and cremated themselves. The fact that what is described is an impossibility is irrelevant.
The description of what happened is missing details and is compromised with hyperbole, hearsay and estimations. You cannot conclusively determine if something was possible merely from how witnesses described how it happened.
If it happened, it was possible.
That is logical and you have never been able to explain what is wrong with that statement.
Nessie is indifferent to the fact that the hermetically sealed gas/vacuum chamber is equally impossible. It doesn't matter.
It does matter. Witnesses describe hermetic seals on doors and caps, which makes sense. If you close a door with a hermetic seal on it, it is reasonable to say the room has then been hermetically sealed.
Witnesses were just engaging in hyperbole, were exaggerating or just plain made a mistake.
Which is normal for witnesses.
The official narrative is that the victims were gassed so if it happened, it was possible. The truth is NOT observable scientific facts. The truth is the holyhoax narrative and for Nessie, so it shall remain. Reality isn't allowed to intrude, to rear it's ugly head. Nessie has the faith of a religious fundamentalist and such faith will not be shaken. The eeevul Narzis gassed 6 million Jews and that's that. So there.
The evidence is that c2 to 2.5 million were gassed. Another c2 million were shot.

It is not physically impossible for the Nazis to have gassed, buried, exhumed and cremated. We know they managed to do it from the evidence.

You keep on dodging that it is physically impossible for the Nazis to have transported and accommodated millions of people you claim were not gassed. You tried to suggest they were spread out amongst hundreds of camps, but there are very few camps that are evidenced to have taken transports from the AR camps.

Then there is the issue of how many were liberated in 1944-5. If denial was correct, millions of Jews would have been in Nazi custody and liberated by the Allies. Instead, the Soviets found mostly empty camps and the most the western Allies liberated was c60,000 from Bergen-Belsen.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
The description of what happened is missing details and is compromised with hyperbole, hearsay and estimations. You cannot conclusively determine if something was possible merely from how witnesses described how it happened.
Yep, if it happened it was possible. No matter what the witnesses said.
If it happened, it was possible.
Nessie replied:
That is logical and you have never been able to explain what is wrong with that statement.
Yep, if the little boy rode his tricycle to the moon, that's what happened.
Which is normal for witnesses.
So no witness told the truth but that doesn't matter.
The evidence is that c2 to 2.5 million were gassed. Another c2 million were shot.
Careful Nessie, you're approaching denier territory.
It is not physically impossible for the Nazis to have gassed, buried, exhumed and cremated. We know they managed to do it from the evidence.
Only if you disregard everything claimed by the alleged eyewitnesses. That and you have no evidence.
You keep on dodging that it is physically impossible for the Nazis to have transported and accommodated millions of people you claim were not gassed.
So you say.
You tried to suggest they were spread out amongst hundreds of camps, but there are very few camps that are evidenced to have taken transports from the AR camps.
From only a handful of witnesses we know that deportees ended up in dozens of different camps. The Germans had tens of thousands of camps/worksites available for prisoners. Keep the faith, Nessie.

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