Where did they go

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Huntinger
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:37 am
You said that there are no documents, as if that is a fact that has been verified. That is not true and your suggestion is tantamount to lying.
If there is information as to transits at the Malkinia junction for any rolling stock please present it; if not say nothing.
Nessie wrote: Your reasoning is deeply flawed and no matter how often non sequitur is explained, you are unable to understand. You also show a lack of intellectual curiosity, which is clearly driven by your desire to peddle a narrative that is not matched by what is and what is not evidenced. A secondary school history student would fail all submissions and exams if he/she used your version of enquiry.
This poster has not demonstrated how asking for transit documents is deeply flawed. We welcome all secondary school students to pursue this narrative and expose people like the poster.

It is requested that the poster Nessie, or any other prankster provide information on the rolling stock movements from the Arbeitslager TI to Malkinia and other destinations.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:17 pm
Nessie, compared to your "what ifs" and "coulda woulda's", Huntinger's research is gold.
My "what ifs" consist of the very reasonable explanations as to why witness memory is flawed, how you are wrong to interpret it literally, how you are wrong to conflate hearsay with eye witness evidence and to assume they are all lying about everything, even the witnesses you have never read.

You have thought up spurious reasons to dismiss the witnesses that do not suit you. You dodged explaining why you were happy to accept USHMM transport records without checking chronology, when normally you dismiss them as unreliable. You are very inconsistent. Your methodology is unique, no academic discipline, in particular history, uses it. Huntinger is even worse, he leaps about in a series of non sequiturs, showing no understanding of evidence as he makes comical misinterpretations, such as thinking US Intelligence had named the three camps at Treblinka, instead of it just being a list :lol:

Fact is, your claim that c840,000 people were transported from TII over 13 months in 1942-3, to other camps, without that leaving any evidence at those camps, is physically impossible.

You are so set in your ways, that no amount of evidence and explanation will shift your position. I merely use you as an example of how flawed denial's thinking and methodology is.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:47 am
Fact is, your claim that c840,000 people were transported from TII over 13 months in 1942-3, to other camps, without that leaving any evidence at those camps, is physically impossible.
That is not his claim, that is the posters; this poster has not verified the rolling stock from the other camp on the same spur line to common railway junction called Malkinia Gorna. Until there is evidence of rocks and inmates leaving TI on the same spur line the lack of evidence of anything else on any station between the two points is irrelevant. Can this be done soon please. We all wait with baited breath.
Nessie wrote:US Intelligence had named the three camps at Treblinka, instead of it just being a list :lol:
At least we agree that US Intelligence has limitations, but they also added Malkinia correctional camp just a few km from the TI arbeitslager; other people added Czerwony bor as the Treblinka extermination facility.
Last edited by Huntinger on Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:46 am
Nessie wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:37 am
You said that there are no documents, as if that is a fact that has been verified. That is not true and your suggestion is tantamount to lying.
If there is information as to transits at the Malkinia junction for any rolling stock please present it; if not say nothing.
Nessie wrote: Your reasoning is deeply flawed and no matter how often non sequitur is explained, you are unable to understand. You also show a lack of intellectual curiosity, which is clearly driven by your desire to peddle a narrative that is not matched by what is and what is not evidenced. A secondary school history student would fail all submissions and exams if he/she used your version of enquiry.
This poster has not demonstrated how asking for transit documents is deeply flawed.
What you are trying to do here is, argue that because I cannot show you documentation for transports of gravel from TI, therefore no documentation is needed for the c840,000 people you claim were transported from TII.
We welcome all secondary school students to pursue this narrative and expose people like the poster.
A young student who made your argument would have the teacher explain the flaw in it. If the student failed to understand that flaw, they would be failed.
It is requested that the poster Nessie, or any other prankster provide information on the rolling stock movements from the Arbeitslager TI to Malkinia and other destinations.
It is requested that you evidence your claim and prove c840,000 left TII.

What is primarily available online, is the transports of people, not the transports of quarried gravel or movement of empty box cars.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:51 am
Nessie wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:47 am
Fact is, your claim that c840,000 people were transported from TII over 13 months in 1942-3, to other camps, without that leaving any evidence at those camps, is physically impossible.
That is not his claim,
Yes it is. He claims those people were sent to live at other camps and that it is not a problem that there is no evidence to support that, despite it being physically impossible to have moved and accommodated so many people without leaving any evidence.
... that is the posters; this poster has not verified the rolling stock from the other camp on the same spur line to common railway junction called Malkinia Gorna. Until there is evidence of rocks and inmates leaving TI on the same spur line the lack of evidence of anything else on any station between the two points is irrelevant. Can this be done soon please. We all wait with baited breath.
You are so confused your argument has now become, since there is no documentation, nothing left either the TI quarry or the TII camp.
Nessie wrote:US Intelligence had named the three camps at Treblinka, instead of it just being a list :lol:
At least we agree that US Intelligence has limitations, but they also added Malkinia correctional camp just a few km from the TI arbeitslager; other people added Czerwony bor as the Treblinka extermination facility.
The more rational and simple explanation is that Malkinia was double counted as a camp at Malkinia and as one of the Treblinka camps. Only you have claimed TII was in a forest miles away from Treblinka. No contemporary source has a Treblinka camp at Czerwony Bor.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:59 am
What you are trying to do here is, argue that because I cannot show you documentation for transports of gravel from TI, therefore no documentation is needed for the c840,000 people you claim were transported from TII.
If there are no documents for TI rolling stock then the loss of data for TII has no special significance.
It is requested that you evidence your claim and prove c840,000 left TII.

Please re send the information that those people arrived post Barbarossa without the Warsaw terrorists. The importance of the rolling stock from TI is that way back then every coal train or cattle train, quarry wagons had several cars for people attached. It was also mentioned that many camps are within walking distance.

Due to the lies told about the Ciechanow juden being sent to Treblinka, sent in fact to the Russian zone the veracity of the incoming transport documents are more than suspect. The fact that there are no outgoing documents recording people and rocks leaving T!, passing TII means that using transports to suggest foul deeds in completely unfounded.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:05 am
Yes it is. He claims those people were sent to live at other camps and that it is not a problem that there is no evidence to support that, despite it being physically impossible to have moved and accommodated so many people without leaving any evidence.
Millions of people were in konzentrationslager with very few documents surviving today; one cannot find the muster of say Bergen Belsen in all likelihood. Without any evidence it is assumed correctly all were successfully fed and accommodated; the same can be said of the Fritz Reinhardt camps.
You are so confused your argument has now become, since there is no documentation, nothing left either the TI quarry or the TII camp.

Be assured there is no confusion. A railway line being used with two camps would have similar documentation of use. If there are none for one camp then it is certain there will be nothing for the other.
The more rational and simple explanation is that Malkinia was double counted as a camp at Malkinia and as one of the Treblinka camps. Only you have claimed TII was in a forest miles away from Treblinka. No contemporary source has a Treblinka camp at Czerwony Bor.
The Malkinia camp was given as a separate entry and as a correctional facility; it is you that is trying to usurp US Intelligence with theories of ineptitude. It is not my claim of Czerwony bor being the place of execution but several very reliable sources which has been mentioned. Contemporary sources are clearly incorrect.

Now please with out the fudging provide the transport schedules for the spur line and Malkinia.

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Re: Where did they go

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Nessie wrote:
My "what ifs" consist of the very reasonable explanations as to why witness memory is flawed, how you are wrong to interpret it literally, how you are wrong to conflate hearsay with eye witness evidence and to assume they are all lying about everything, even the witnesses you have never read.
LOL! That's a good 'un, Nessie. A real knee slapper. Chil Rajchman wrote in his book that he witnessed the blood of 250,000 Jews rise to the surface from a 12 meter deep pit and burn for an entire night and a day. He also said that the air was pumped out of the gas/vacuum chamber before the exhaust from an IC engine was pumped into it. What is your "very reasonable explanation" for why his memory was flawed?

Rosenberg testified under oath that the steam/gas/vacuum chamber was hermetically sealed. That confirms Rajchman's statement since the chamber would have to be sealed in order for the air to be pumped out of it. Care to explain how both Rajchman's and Rosenberg's statements were "flawed" and not just bald-faced lies? Well, prolly not.

Such obvious lies are the daily fare of the witnesses to the so-called death camp and can't be explained by even your most bizarre "what ifs" and "coulda woulda's". "Very reasonable explanations" my shiny hiny.
You have thought up spurious reasons to dismiss the witnesses that do not suit you. You dodged explaining why you were happy to accept USHMM transport records without checking chronology, when normally you dismiss them as unreliable. You are very inconsistent.
The USHMM has used witness statements to create a chronology for the movements of those witnesses. They have NOT produced any documentation for that. As far as I know, Mattogno has found documentation for only 412 deportees being sent to Majdanek. Neither do I know of any documents other than the HOR-HUG decrypts from Bletchley Park that explain the shifts in the inmate population of Auschwitz. If you have more documentation than that, please enlighten me.

There is no reason to doubt the chronology of the transfers of deportees to various camps. Seems reasonable. What ISN'T reasonable is Mr. Black's statement that NO deportees, none, zip, zero, nada, reboarded trains and went to various destinations from Treblinka. In his book, "Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka", Yitzhak Arad claims that nobody save the few who escaped after an uprising left Treblinka alive. That is obvious bullshit. I know of no qualified historians who claim that an orthodox narrative must be believed or rejected in it's entirety without discriminating between what is fact and what is possibly fiction.

The fact is that your puerile "what ifs" and "coulda woulda's" are nothing but piss-poor excuses for the lies of such as Rajchman, Wiernik, Rosenberg et al. They DON'T explain the impossibilities claimed for Treblinka being an extermination facility rather than a transit facility.
Fact is, your claim that c840,000 people were transported from TII over 13 months in 1942-3, to other camps, without that leaving any evidence at those camps, is physically impossible.
Fact is, nobody was steamed/gassed/vacuumed in hermetically sealed chambers. Nor were they buried in giant mass graves, exhumed and cremated on the magic Jew barbeque. Fact is that deportees were shown to have been sent to T-II, stayed for short lengths of time and were transferred to various other camps. That is derived from credible witness testimony. There is apparently NO documentation for any of that other than the records for the 412 deportees to Majdanek discovered by Mattogno.

There are two possibilities. The 850,000 were steamed/gassed/vacuumed at T-II or they were transferred to other camps/worksites. One possibility is reasonable. The other is the fantasies of holyhoax la-la land.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:17 am
Nessie wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:05 am
Yes it is. He claims those people were sent to live at other camps and that it is not a problem that there is no evidence to support that, despite it being physically impossible to have moved and accommodated so many people without leaving any evidence.
Millions of people were in konzentrationslager with very few documents surviving today...
How do you know that? Where is your evidence?
; one cannot find the muster of say Bergen Belsen in all likelihood.
Have you bothered to look? Do you know how to research?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:43 pm
......

There are two possibilities. The 850,000 were steamed/gassed/vacuumed at T-II or they were transferred to other camps/worksites. One possibility is reasonable. The other is the fantasies of holyhoax la-la land.

Your first rule of evidence is that if is physically impossible, it did not happen.

It is physically impossible for the Nazis, between the end of 1941 and autumn 1944, to have transported and then accommodated c2.5 million from the AR camps and A-B kremas, without leaving any evidence. The transport and accommodation of a few thousand from TII to Majdanek, Budzyn or Poniatowa left evidence. It is impossible that no other transport left evidence. The Nazis left plenty of physical evidence of mass accommodation at ghettos and camps. They left plenty of documents recording transports to the AR camps and A-B. At A-B they left plenty of documents recording who was registered to work. Then there are the people who you say were on the transports, where is their witness evidence? Why does not one single worker at an AR camp or in the A-B kremas speak to nothing other than gassings? If the mass transports you allege had happened, they would have left evidence

You have admitted that the Nazis could have built functioning gas chambers and your claim that because witnesses do not describe chambers that you think could function, no such chamber was built, is a non sequitur. The only issue you have with the gas chambers at TII, is that no witness mentions a pressure valve. The use of a petrol engine, the concrete/tile/brick construction and hermetic seals on the doors and a roof cap all make sense when building a gas chamber. There is physical evidence of such a chamber and multiple witnesses to it being used to gas people.

By your own first rule of evidence, gassings is the alternative that happened.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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