Where did they go

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Huntinger
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:14 pm
If I am wrong about a Malkinia transit camp, so be it, but I want to see as much evidence as possible before I make any decision.
US intelligence would probably not discern the difference between a customs facility and an ss lager. Most of the konzentrationlager in the US intelligence reports are really Schmelt und Todt camps.

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blake121666
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Re: Where did they go

Post by blake121666 »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:14 pm
blake121666 wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:49 pm
.... There was a small camp at Treblinka Village. And then there were of course T-I and T-II. Why would one put a camp at Malkinia itself (other than for those working there - who stayed in the tiny Malkinia Village)? One wouldn't of course. Treblinka Village could serve as any "transit camp" if one desired such a thing.

....
Can you link to evidence of the small camp at Treblinka village?

How about you stop the childish name calling. If I am wrong about a Malkinia transit camp, so be it, but I want to see as much evidence as possible before I make any decision.
I read about it from sources you've recently been posting.

I have to find the exact reference you used but it was the one about the guy talking about sorting property at T-II - which you used in PR's thread. He stated in the beginning that he first went to Treblinka Village - where there was a small camp and small warehouses for rags and such. THEN he goes on to say he was afterward taken to T-II. If you remember it offhand, reply with the link. Otherwise I'll try to find it. It was a link to HC site.

He talked about Treblinka Village at first. It's one of the only times I've heard about it though. So it might be wrong or mistaken as well.

EDIT: I found it quicker than I thought I would:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/holocau ... t1916.html

Krzepicki's account was what I was thinking of.

I'll find the references about Treblinka Village in it now and be more specific.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by blake121666 »

Here we go:

Krzepicki: Eighteen Days in Treblinka
At 4 p.m., the train began to move again. We moved a short distance; then we saw the
Treblinka station. As the train moved
on, we saw whole mountains of smattes.5 The Jew at the window
who was the first to see the rags again tried to calm the crowd, saying that
this would be our work. We would be put
to work sorting out these rags. Others
wanted to know where the rags could have come from. They were told that in Maidanek near Lublin
and in other camps the Jews had been given paper clothing and that the clothing
with which they had come had been gathered together, sorted out, and forwarded
to Germany to be reconditioned. Others
volun­teered that in Warsaw there was also a special shop at 52 Nowolipki
Street, known as Hoffmann’s shop, where old clothes were recon­ditioned. Minutes before the train pulled into
Treblinka station, we saw Jews being taken to work
. This, too, was reported to the others, and
everybody was glad. Everybody was told
that Jews were being taken to work, led by a Ukrainian.


After passing the Treblinka station, the train went on a
few hundred meters to the camp.
...
My bolding above.

He appears to me to be saying that something was going on around Treblinka station ... some sort of camp or something there. Notice what he says about things around Treblinka Station.

I might be misreading this though - now that I reread it. Maybe he is simply talking about T-II. T-II is not close to Treblinka Station though. It's farther from Treblinka Station than Malkinia is.
Last edited by blake121666 on Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
As soon as you say he lied about TII, you cannot then use him as evidence as to what happened inside the camp, including your claim it was used as a transit camp.
Right, Wiernik lied about Treblinka being an extermination facility so his testimony can't be used as evidence that Treblinka was something other than an extermination facility...or something. Rules for revisionists according to Nessie.
He is at best evidence some people lied about what happened to them. So why do use his testimony so often? Why not use a witness who you say tells the truth about what happened?
OK, name and quote a credible Jew eyewitness to Treblinka being an extermination facility. A witness who doesn't make "mistakes" or "exaggerate".

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Re: Where did they go

Post by blake121666 »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:14 pm
blake121666 wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:49 pm
.... There was a small camp at Treblinka Village. And then there were of course T-I and T-II. Why would one put a camp at Malkinia itself (other than for those working there - who stayed in the tiny Malkinia Village)? One wouldn't of course. Treblinka Village could serve as any "transit camp" if one desired such a thing.

....
Can you link to evidence of the small camp at Treblinka village?

How about you stop the childish name calling. If I am wrong about a Malkinia transit camp, so be it, but I want to see as much evidence as possible before I make any decision.
BTW, please point out my "childish name calling" of late. Uncharacteristically I have not done that recently. You have imagined that as well.

Telling you to stop referring to an imaginary "camp" at Malkinia is neither "childish" nor "name calling".

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

blake121666 wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:57 pm
Here we go:

Krzepicki: Eighteen Days in Treblinka
At 4 p.m., the train began to move again. We moved a short distance; then we saw the
Treblinka station. As the train moved
on, we saw whole mountains of smattes.5 The Jew at the window
who was the first to see the rags again tried to calm the crowd, saying that
this would be our work. We would be put
to work sorting out these rags. Others
wanted to know where the rags could have come from. They were told that in Maidanek near Lublin
and in other camps the Jews had been given paper clothing and that the clothing
with which they had come had been gathered together, sorted out, and forwarded
to Germany to be reconditioned. Others
volun­teered that in Warsaw there was also a special shop at 52 Nowolipki
Street, known as Hoffmann’s shop, where old clothes were recon­ditioned. Minutes before the train pulled into
Treblinka station, we saw Jews being taken to work
. This, too, was reported to the others, and
everybody was glad. Everybody was told
that Jews were being taken to work, led by a Ukrainian.


After passing the Treblinka station, the train went on a
few hundred meters to the camp.
...
My bolding above.

He appears to me to be saying that something was going on around Treblinka station ... some sort of camp or something there. Notice what he says about things around Treblinka Station.

I might be misreading this though - now that I reread it. Maybe he is simply talking about T-II. T-II is not close to Treblinka Station though. It's farther from Treblinka Station than Malkinia is.
Before that description of arriving at Treblinka station, Krzepicki states;

"The train stopped at some little depot. One by one, we dropped off to sleep, and we slept for a few hours. At about 5 a.m.,we saw many other transports of Jews passing by our window."

He does not mention Malkinia. He does talk about the heat, wanting water and importantly, times;

"A little later, at about 10 a.m., we could see through the window the German who was in command. One of us asked him through the window to give orders that we should get some water. The German replied that we should be patient, because in an hour’s time we would arrive at our destination, Camp Treblinka, where everyone would get water. He also told us to be calm. In Treblinka, we would be divided into groups and, put to work. But our train did not move again until 4 p.m."

Considering the number of trains and how they had to be split and shunted into TII from Treblinka station, it could be an hour or longer between Malkinia and TII camp, so that "depot" could be Malkinia. I agree it was not an actual camp, so will drop that claim. It appears to have functioned as a depot for trains to wait prior to going to TII, where people could be stuck inside trains overnight and for many hours.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:30 pm
Considering the number of trains and how they had to be split and shunted into TII from Treblinka station, it could be an hour or longer between Malkinia and TII camp, so that "depot" could be Malkinia. I agree it was not an actual camp, so will drop that claim. It appears to have functioned as a depot for trains to wait prior to going to TII, where people could be stuck inside trains overnight and for many hours.
Who said apart from Zabecki that people went to TII, perhaps they were going to TI

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Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

The former head of the Grodno customs office (Zollgrenzschutz), Otto Tomm, testified:

“I still recall that the Jews spoke about that they were sent from Grodno to a camp supposedly located on the border between the Bialystok district and the Generalgouvernement. From there they were then sent on elsewhere. I can no longer remember the name of this camp.”...it was Treblinka

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:23 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:30 pm
Considering the number of trains and how they had to be split and shunted into TII from Treblinka station, it could be an hour or longer between Malkinia and TII camp, so that "depot" could be Malkinia. I agree it was not an actual camp, so will drop that claim. It appears to have functioned as a depot for trains to wait prior to going to TII, where people could be stuck inside trains overnight and for many hours.
Who said apart from Zabecki that people went to TII, perhaps they were going to TI
Stroop specifically referred to TII and Hofle to the Operation Reinhardt camp at Treblinka.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:08 pm
Stroop specifically referred to TII and Hofle to the Operation Reinhardt camp at Treblinka.
I should imagine that a good deal of people in the Warsaw terrorist uprising would have been given their dues at the Czerwony bor execution centre, aka Treblinka III. That aside 13 year old Avraham Fabishevich was in the Ghetto a year earlier but sneaked out to get food, was caught and put in the Gesia st Jail, given two years prison, transported to Bobruysk after volunteering.

Yitzhak Wasserstein also arrived at Bobruysk from the Warsaw ghetto while Shraga Zisholts was 18 years old when he was deported in the second transport to Bobruysk.

Bobruysk was not subordinated to the administration of the concentration camps of the SS Economic and Administrative Department (SS-Wirtschaftsverwaltungshauptamt- WVHA), headed by Oswald Pohl and Theodor Eicke. Bobruysk was not connected to camps that were associated with factories, nor was it subordinate or connected to the Schmeldt or Todt labor organizations. It was a pure SS Wehrmacht judenlager; in fact all häftlinge were 'villagers'.

Similar to Bobruysk was the Smolensk judenlager which performed a similar function with about two thousand villagers.

The first transport from Warsaw to Ostland was on 28 May 1942 while the 2nd transport left the Warsaw ghetto at the end of July 1942. Each of these transports had about 750 'villagers'. (although some sources suggest substantially larger numbers)

While the evacuated Grodno Jews were being sent to “special reservations” where they were to work on draining the Rokitno marshes, others also entered the General Government. The distance from Grodno to Malkinia is just under 200 km
A German witness from the Grodno Trial, the former head of the Grodno Zollgrenzschutz (customs office), Otto Tomm, testified:

“I still recall that the Jews spoke about that they were sent from Grodno to a camp supposedly located on the border between the Bialystok district and the Generalgouvernement. From there they were then sent on elsewhere. I can no longer remember the name of this camp.”.

This is of course Treblinka or Malkinia; the distance from Grodno which east of Bialystok to Bobruysk is 424 kilometres and the site of one of the customs border posts. The camp would have to be Treblinka as it is unlikely a customs officer would not remember the name of a former customs command post 200km away.

Höfle never mentioned Treblinka at all, just referred to a T.
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