Where did they go

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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:06 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:52 pm

You are clearly mad, as shown here;
viewtopic.php?p=178731#p178731
Stop trolling threads with drivel and plagiarism.
Depth Check will deal with this in due course. The posters inability to understand statistical population numbers is his downfall. ....
You posted this graph, with the claim "that millions did not perish, this is a myth" :shock:

Image

You have plagiarised sources and posted evidence that shows under the Nazis, the Jewish population in the east, as well as across Europe plummeted.

That is madness.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:18 pm
You have plagiarised sources and posted evidence that shows under the Nazis, the Jewish population in the east, as well as across Europe plummeted.

That is madness.
That graph was produced on this forum many moons ago; it is my own but here is a better one I did using similar but different data.
Below how the real jüdische population data was extrapolated forward to 2030 and back.
Image
Here is the fabricate data from Untermeyer der jude. The yellow line is fake Untermeyer data published.
Image
Korherr used this date for his extrapolation and predictions; this created in built errors.

This is for the world jüdische population. The population for Belarus shows a similar patterns of normality when the Russian deportations are considered. I will put this on in a few days.

Failure of any person to understand graphs is their issue; though they may ask for clarification. :)


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

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Still no evidence of large Jewish populations in Belarus, or anywhere in the east, in 1943, when it was under Nazi occupation. But deniers madly and stupidly insist that the east was where the Nazis were resettling millions of Jews.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:05 am
Still no evidence of large Jewish populations in Belarus, or anywhere in the east, in 1943, when it was under Nazi occupation. But deniers madly and stupidly insist that the east was where the Nazis were resettling millions of Jews.
I think this poster fails to comprehend. I have posted some population evidence in the White Russian thread but will be doing this again for clarification. Insists on wanting the whole answer when the reality lies in a series of locations some of which has been discussed.

This technique used by the poster is the same as someone asking proof of how many kids in a large rural primary school. You take him around and show him class room A with 25 kids; he instantly states that is not proof of 800 kids in this school. So you show him class room B with 28 kids; the response is the same. You state there are 28 classrooms like this, a library, a hall and a gym to which the reply is "that is not evidence, non sequitur".

Information will be given on population numbers in Belarus etc but the poster Nessie will not be responded to, unless there is a point of clarification needed or some serious unknown information is given (highly unlikely). To blatantly make rash statements in a thread to discuss that statement is asinine.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

If the Nazis had been resettling millions of Jews in the east, then the ghettos at Riga, Minsk and Lodz would have been huge by the end of 1943. Instead, two had already closed and one would close in 1944.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Transportation to the Russian East
It is clear that there were rail transports from European towns and cities to the borders of the General Government.
Many people perished on the way through suicide and disease. S.S. special detachment leader Ferdinand Riege wrote to Heinrich Himmler, stating that ‘unexpected difficulties arose as a result of which wastage of human life due to illness, suicide, etc., amounted to 30 per cent.’”

The JTA states:
The men are assembled in camps prior to deportation. Some are sent to the devastated areas of occupied Russia and others to coal mines in German territory. The women and children are being sent to unknown destinations.

It is known that people were transported to Bialystok by train due to the fact that people returned to Lublin a year or so later via Treblinka transit camp. It is known that some were transported by train to the RKU due to a report that many perished after being released from Schutzhaft, unable to fend for themselves with few resources.

It is a known fact that the mass expulsions of juden from Bessarabia and Bukovina into the Transnistrian “reservation” by Romanian authorities were often undertaken on foot. This involved the crossing of the Dniestr river via either bridges or barges. It does not seem impossible that the Germans in charge of the deportations in some exceptional cases had to resort to a similar manner of transportation, driving columns of Jews across the Bug river.

In the Eichmann “Trial” in Jerusalem, the Polish Jews Zwi Patscher and Yakov Goldfine testified that the Germans drove Polish Jews marching four abreast in long columns onto the Soviet portion of occupied Poland.

The Judaica reported:
With the outbreak of the war in September, the Poles began to loot stores and
attack the Jews. […] the Jews were deported by the Germans [September 1939]
to the area under Soviet control on the other side of the San River. […] Those
who were deported to the Soviet Zone lived there in very difficult economic
conditions. In the summer of 1940 many of them were deported to the Soviet
interior.


On 24th Sept 42 the Zurich newspaper reports the following:
Image
This is repeated a day later by the JTA:
25 September 1942 (p. 3):

“Nazis drive Jews and Poles hundreds of miles on foot to devastated Russian areas
ZURICH, Sep. 24 (JTA) – Jews and Poles who are now being sent by the Nazis from occupied Poland to the devastated sections of occupied Russia for slave labor are no longer transported in trains but must make the several-hundred-mile journey on foot under the supervision of Nazi guards, it was revealed in a report reaching here today from Cracow.
Railroad facilities being overburdened, the Nazi authorities in Poland have instituted a system whereby the Jewish and Polish deportees must cover at least forty miles a day on foot. Underfed and exhausted, hundreds of them are unable to stand the strain and collapse on the roads. They are left there by the German guards as ‘human junk.’ Polish peasants from the neighboring villages do their best to provide them with food and shelter.”

Much information can be gleaned from this:
  • Railway system used for war effort on the Russian front and not transportation of häftlinge; implication transports were originally used, which also implies a large number of people.
  • People were sent from Poland
  • Huge distances to be covered (Bialystok to Minsk is 351km or 219 miles)
  • 40 miles a day walking ( 64 km)..Walking 12 hours would mean 5.3 km/h which is average walking speed.
  • Some too weak to make it, not shot but left to be cared for by civilians.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Show me the huge settlements of Jews in the east at the end of 1943, of slave labourers who walked there.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie is attempt to derail the Reinhardt thread by asking again for the millionth time the intention of this thread.
Image


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

It seems that many juden were taken closer to the front than first realized. They were out of civilian administration and into military command.
January 30, 1942 diary entry of Herman Kruk:

“A train with Jews passed by here [in Vilnius] today. The Jews said that they are being taken to work from Sosnowiec and the surrounding area [in Upper Silesia]. The train left in the direction of the Eastern Front.”

It is clear that the work there was important enough to transport the people by train and not walk.
It is known that a transport of 350 young Polish Js was sent from Upper Silesia via Königsberg, Kaunas and Vilnius to work on railway rehabilitation in Sebezh, a town some 200 Km from Leningrad, where the Organisation Todt had set up a collection, transit and staff camp; though this is not the Vilnius juden in the Kruk entry above. It appeared that this particular transport was deemed a failure.

January 15, 1942 GCHQ enigma intercept.

“To Higher SS and Police Leader NORTH. Secret.

The Fuehrer has ordered that Jewish compulsory labour gangs are to be sent with all speed into the area of Russian operations for the carrying out of important constructional undertakings. They go on 18.1.42 in special transport into the building area allotted to the SILESIAN operations group, in the region of DUENABURG/MOSCOW. Medical examination and injection is necessary. The Jews wear black-working dress with green armbands. Employment – Reichsautobahn. Organisation TODT undertakes guard duties. Please see to it that the pool of compulsory laborers is not reduced.


The autobahn is a road network...a freeway. Note the need for a vaccine of some sort. A protocol in the Wannsee conference depicted that juden would be working on roads.

Leibbrandt’s letter:

“In suggesting these proposals to deport the Jews to points east of the general commissariats, however, Heydrich was probably responding not only to the RmbO’s [Leibbrandt’s] ideas. Rather, it seems that the Security Police itself had thought about other possibilities in the long term. As early as August [1941], Stahlecker – in a statement on Lohse’s temporary guidelines for the treatment of the Jewish question – had noted that a future ‘Jew reservation’ should be erected only farther east, and as late as February 1942, Heydrich said the ‘Arctic area’ was an ‘ideal homeland for the 11 million Jews from Europe.’ Seen in the context of these remarks, another statement by Heydrich, to the effect that the commanders of the Einsatzgruppen B and C could ‘take in Jews in their camps for Communist prisoners in the zone of operations’ gains in significance as well.”

On January 1, 1943 The Jewish Chronicle reported:

“Czech Jews are now being sent from the notorious Terezin fortress-ghetto to areas near the Eastern front. Everyone between the ages of 18 and 45 is made to work on the building of fortifications. There is evidence that Czech Jews had been working on fortifications within 35 miles of Stalingrad.”


Between September 19 and October 22, 1942 a total of ten transports departed Theresienstadt (Terezin) bound for Treblinka, while a single transport bound for Auschwitz departed on October 26, 1942; a hiatus in the convoys from Theresienstadt then followed until January 20, 1943.

According to the June 1942 issue of Contemporary Jewish Record, “thousands of former Lublin and Krakow Jews” had been sent in April 1942 to dig trenches “on the Taganrog-Kharkov sector of the Soviet front.”


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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