Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Discuss the alleged Nazi genocide or other wartime atrocities without fear of censorship. No bullying of fellow posters is allowed at RODOH. If you can't be civil, please address the argument and not the participants. Do not use disparaging alterations of the user-names of other RODOH posters or their family members. Failure to heed warnings from Moderators will result in a 24 hour ban (or longer if necessary).
Werd
Posts: 10167
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:38 am
Contact:

Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Werd »

Huntinger wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:39 am
Do I detect the same smugness of Lupus and others.
It's about as proportional as your inability to understand that I was referring to the 1960 German law when I said "the law", as opposed to US law. :lol:
Your integrity is seriously in doubt
I'm aware you think Nessie and I are one and the same. Others on rodoh and codoh know better.

So know what we know about Articles 19 and 21 of the IMT 1945 where does that leave us? I would claim that based on the wild claims of the holocaust that many historians like to "forget" such as peddle driven brain bashing machines, bone crushing mills and steam chambers and electrocution chambers, that were all accepted on the flimsiest of pretexts as Carlos W. Porter has exposed, it seems obvious to me that once the gas chambers were settled on, THAT is what was taken judicial notice of. I.E. The prosecution could claim something, have a certified true copy, or an affidavit signed by some American military man that boxes of documents someone he knew "found" were "genuine," and that would be good enough. No cross examination necessary.
Last edited by Werd on Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.


Would you like to financially contribute to the upkeep of RODOH, kindly contact Scott Smith. All contributions are welcome!


Turnagain
Posts: 8303
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Turnagain »

I wrote:
Was that precedent applied in some/most/all of the 1960s witchcraft trials?
Werd wrote:
I don't know if a few corrupt judges in West German trials decided to take "judicial notice" just because it was already done at IMT.
Judicial notice of the holyhoax was codified in the 1960 Volksverhetzung law. Are you saying that since it became law, the actual de facto application of judicial notice of the holyhoax doesn't apply? Care to share the difference it would make in the court proceeding?

Werd
Posts: 10167
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:38 am
Contact:

Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Werd »

Turnagain wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:46 am
Judicial notice of the holyhoax was codified in the 1960 Volksverhetzung law.
The judiciary (courtroom) is separate from the executive/legislative branch of the government. The LEGAL NOTICE that was taken by the politicians in the form of legislation, or law, implicitly FORCES judicial notice upon every court of law. As I said, it's judicial notice by PROXY. In other words, the German courts were not operating in spirit of the IMT and taking judicial notice or judicial inspiration from the IMT. The judges didn't have to do that on their whim because German law already forced them to accept judicial notice of the holocaust implicitly.

So my earlier claim that it would be a good idea to see a transcript of a German judge taking judicial notice in the 1960's was/is therefore stupid and moot. I have modified my view now, obviously. IMT didn't rig Germany's courtrooms. German politicians who passed legislation are the ones who rigged Germany's courtrooms. That's how I see it now. Hence my fence sitting here from pages ago WAS acceptable in light of what I know now:
I don't know if a few corrupt judges in West German trials decided to take "judicial notice" just because it was already done at IMT.
IMT didn't rig Germany's courtrooms. German politicians who passed legislation are the ones who rigged Germany's courtrooms. Lupus and any other gas chamber monger can't avoid that fact of courtroom judicial notice enforced by legislative proxy.
Last edited by Werd on Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:54 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 7598
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh. Swabia
Contact:

Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Huntinger »

Judges follow the rule of law and do not make corrupt decisions, they may make mistakes but nothing so significant as this.
It was codified and now sets a precedence throughout the world.

It is wrong


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

Amt IV

Turnagain
Posts: 8303
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Turnagain »

Thank you, Werd. We now agree that the war crimes trials of the 1960s functioned under de facto rules of the IMT and subsequent NMT trials.

Werd
Posts: 10167
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:38 am
Contact:

Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Werd »

Turnagain wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:01 am
Thank you, Werd. We now agree that the war crimes trials of the 1960s functioned under de facto rules of the IMT and subsequent NMT trials.
The German courts in the 1960s were functioning under the German law of the land. A law which was anti-denial and was created by German politicians. That's the point of my 6:49 am post above.

Now if you want to talk about WHY the German politicians felt the need to pass such a law, maybe we could investigate whether this law was legal to pass in the first place. Did this violate any free speech codes already existing in German law at the time? Was there something in the IMT and NMT that forced Germany to try to pass this law in 1960? THAT would be an interesting conspiracy to look into...

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 7598
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh. Swabia
Contact:

Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Huntinger »

Werd wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:43 am
I'm aware you think Nessie and I are one and the same. Others on rodoh and codoh know better.
The NMT scenario was the first in the world and set a precedent which many judges follow; its legal standing is in doubt.
The fact that the defendants could not contest the background they were being charged against is of the greatest concern.
An example if say the German soldier Kurt was charged with executing a Polish prisoner called Sam at Katyn, he would have to prove innocence that he did not shoot Sam. The fact that the Katyn massacre was Soviet is not relevant; what is relevant is that it was claimed so as an official Soviet Government Document and hence claimed as fact under judicial notice.
Poor Kurt has no defense to say the massacre did not happen. In fact the poor bastard has his hands, legs and head tied behind his back. Unless he can prove that the fake same Sam was not murdered poor Kurt is up against the wall literally.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

Amt IV

Werd
Posts: 10167
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:38 am
Contact:

Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Werd »

And thank goodness the Katyn nonsense was dropped.

11 minutes 20 seconds.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ye7hw

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 7598
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh. Swabia
Contact:

Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Huntinger »

Werd wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:22 am
And thank goodness the Katyn nonsense was dropped.

11 minutes 20 seconds.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ye7hw
Katyn was an example of what could have happened under Judicial Notice; Katyn is not the intention of this thread.
Every member of the Reich who was executed was executed under Judicial Notice; they could not defend the option that the holocaust did not happen; no one could. The best they could do was mitigate their complicity.

This was and is the travesty of Justice which continues to this day.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

Amt IV

Werd
Posts: 10167
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:38 am
Contact:

Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Werd »

Huntinger wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:27 am
Werd wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:22 am
And thank goodness the Katyn nonsense was dropped.

11 minutes 20 seconds.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ye7hw
Katyn was an example of what could have happened under Judicial Notice; Katyn is not the intention of this thread.
Every member of the Reich who was executed was executed under Judicial Notice; they could not defend the option that the holocaust did not happen; no one could. The best they could do was mitigate their complicity.

This was and is the travesty of Justice which continues to this day.
But of course, according to Lupus, even though the IMT articles say judicial notice of certain facts was taken, he pretends the gas chambers weren't one of those facts. Maybe he could enlighten us as to what facts WERE taken judicial notice of if not gas chambers. That would be tricky since the gas chamber murder weapons is clearly what was settled on.

He wants to argue that it can't be the gas chambers because that's not what was written down explicitly.

I would argue that since the language was vague and wide open, it provided the opportunity and chance for gas chambers to be one of those things to be taken notice of that the prosecution didn't have to prove with rigid rules of evidence (article 19). And since the gas chambers were settled on, that qualifies as one of the things they were allowed to take judicial notice of, and in the end...DID! In other words, the proof is in the pudding. And Lupus is intentionally arguing in bad faith.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 13 guests