Confronting Holocaust Denial with David Baddiel

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Werd
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Re: Confronting Holocaust Denial with David Baddiel

Post by Werd »

Lupus Israel wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:28 am
As if you’re trying to compare your grammatical errors to the Nazis gassing the Jews! :shock: :shock: :shock:
Is that a sentence fragment? Are you missing the words "It is..."

Also, I'm comparing my error to your error, and not my error to the holocaust. So you're way off. My error and your error are just both errors of sorts. But if what you thought I was doing makes you upset or triggered, sure; let's go with that one. :lol:
Yeah, because the gas chambers were just there for show, the eyewitnesses and the Nazis themselves were all liars when they confessed to what happened to the Jews
Many Nazis did deny this happened.
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12287
Other times, it was useless to do deny this holocaust. Therefore, the best defense strategy was to either claim they couldn't disobey an order, or that they played a minimal role.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4147
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4140&start=60
Don’t reply to me asking me to prove whatever you want me to prove. Instead you should contact the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (USHMM), the Arolsen Archives - International Center on Nazi Persecution, all of the historians and scholars like Robert Gellately and Ian Kershaw and take them to court.
Good luck.
Take them to court for what? You're clearly just here to spit venom and not actually debate things like THE CHEMISTRY OF AUSCHWITZ or CURATED LIES - THE AUSCHWITZ MUSEUM'S MISREPRESENTATIONS, DISTORTIONS AND DECEPTIONS.

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Lupus Israel
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Re: Confronting Holocaust Denial with David Baddiel

Post by Lupus Israel »

Werd wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:11 am
Lupus Israel wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:28 am
As if you’re trying to compare your grammatical errors to the Nazis gassing the Jews! :shock: :shock: :shock:
Is that a sentence fragment? Are you missing the words "It is..."

Also, I'm comparing my error to your error, and not my error to the holocaust. So you're way off. My error and your error are just both errors of sorts. But if what you thought I was doing makes you upset or triggered, sure; let's go with that one. :lol:
Yeah, because the gas chambers were just there for show, the eyewitnesses and the Nazis themselves were all liars when they confessed to what happened to the Jews
Many Nazis did deny this happened.
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12287
Other times, it was useless to do deny this holocaust. Therefore, the best defense strategy was to either claim they couldn't disobey an order, or that they played a minimal role.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4147
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4140&start=60
Don’t reply to me asking me to prove whatever you want me to prove. Instead you should contact the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (USHMM), the Arolsen Archives - International Center on Nazi Persecution, all of the historians and scholars like Robert Gellately and Ian Kershaw and take them to court.
Good luck.
Take them to court for what? You're clearly just here to spit venom and not actually debate things like THE CHEMISTRY OF AUSCHWITZ or CURATED LIES - THE AUSCHWITZ MUSEUM'S MISREPRESENTATIONS, DISTORTIONS AND DECEPTIONS.
There is no need to put “It is” at the start of that sentence. ‘As if’ is sufficient and grammatically correct. Please learn the difference between your and you’re before you try and present yourself as someone who knows about Standard a English.

It’s not an error to accept that the Nazis gassed Jews during the Holocaust. Holocaust deniers have never convinced anyone that their evidence (they do not have any anyway) is sufficient to prove that the Nazis never gassed any Jews. So, no, you made a grammatical error, the fact that I accept that the Nazis gassed the Jews is not an error.

Instead of just linking me to pseudoscience nonsense, tell the authors of those ‘handbooks’ to contact historians who have written about the Nazis gassing the Jews and the museums who pay respect to the victims of the Nazi regime.

Werd
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Re: Confronting Holocaust Denial with David Baddiel

Post by Werd »

Lupus Israel wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:43 am
Instead of just linking me to pseudoscience nonsense
Feel free to demonstrate the flaw in Rudolf's chemistry, or explain why Mattogno is wrong in his claim that the Auschwitz museum has distorted the meaning and context of each of those 74 documents examined in the book (and video) CURATED LIES.
tell the authors of those ‘handbooks’ to contact historians
You pretend that the other side wants an open debate when their policy is clearly to ignore the more educated, more researched revisionists. Instead they just attack pathetic Irish holocaust deniers. They are truly afraid of the "big dogs."
who have written about the Nazis gassing the Jews and the museums who pay respect to the victims of the Nazi regime.
Your moral grandstanding is irrelevant.

Lupus Israel
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Re: Confronting Holocaust Denial with David Baddiel

Post by Lupus Israel »

Germar Rudolf and others may present arguments which appeal to those with preconceived ideas that the Nazis never gassed the Jews and that the Holocaust never happened, but their arguments are ultimately flawed.

I don’t need to dissect any of Rudolf’s arguments, a quick search on Google will show anyone what kind of person he is. Do you not know that Rudolf does not even have a PhD? :lol: Oh, and by the way, calling Rudolf as “Dr” is the same as the clown who is describing Greg Gerdes as a “forensic historian” - the use of false credentials to try and appear more convincing to a newbie.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... f.html?m=1

Oh, surprise, surprise, Rudolf is an antisemite:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... s.html?m=1

Lupus Israel
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Re: Confronting Holocaust Denial with David Baddiel

Post by Lupus Israel »

Werd wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:49 am
Lupus Israel wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:43 am
Instead of just linking me to pseudoscience nonsense
Feel free to demonstrate the flaw in Rudolf's chemistry, or explain why Mattogno is wrong in his claim that the Auschwitz museum has distorted the meaning and context of each of those 74 documents examined in the book (and video) CURATED LIES.
tell the authors of those ‘handbooks’ to contact historians
You pretend that the other side wants an open debate when their policy is clearly to ignore the more educated, more researched revisionists. Instead they just attack pathetic Irish holocaust deniers. They are truly afraid of the "big dogs."
who have written about the Nazis gassing the Jews and the museums who pay respect to the victims of the Nazi regime.
Your moral grandstanding is irrelevant.
I don’t have a PhD in chemistry and I don’t pretend to be a “Dr”, unlike a certain someone! I don’t need to refute any of his claims. If Rudolf is so correct, why doesn’t he ever appear in public? Why does he only publish ‘handbooks’?

The “big dogs” have already been refuted over the years such as David Irving, Ernst Zundel, etc. Holocaust deniers have and always will fail because their arguments are flawed. The reason there is no “open debate” is because Holocaust denial is dead and buried and has been since the 1990s. Holocaust denial these days attracts a few misfits on an online forum and that is all.

Werd
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Re: Confronting Holocaust Denial with David Baddiel

Post by Werd »

Lupus Israel wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:50 am
Germar Rudolf and others may present arguments which appeal to those with preconceived ideas that the Nazis never gassed the Jews and that the Holocaust never happened, but their arguments are ultimately flawed.
I want the philosophical right to call something flawed or false, but I don't want to put the work in. I just demand you believe it anyway.

Sorry, no special pleading is allowed.
I don’t need to dissect any of Rudolf’s arguments, a quick search on Google will show anyone what kind of person he is.
Argumentum pro google.
:roll:
I'm not what the bold text means anyway, but his personality is irrelevant to any arguments he makes via chemistry.
Do you not know that Rudolf does not even have a PhD? :lol: Oh, and by the way, calling Rudolf as “Dr” is the same as the clown who is describing Greg Gerdes as a “forensic historian” - the use of false credentials to try and appear more convincing to a newbie.
What you are loathe to tell your readers is that Rudolf is most certainly a viable PhD candidate. He did all the necessary coursework and requirements. His degree was revoked because of his views. Not because anyone found any flaw in his chemistry. Look at what your precious holocaust controversies link says:
Apparently, the reason for not letting him defend his dissertation was political, but whatever it was, the fact is that he has no PhD.
You and other idiots like you ignore the fores for the trees. Having his PhD TAKEN AWAY FROM HIM FOR POLITICAL REASONS DOESN'T INVALIDATE HIS CONCLUSIONS OR SOMEHOW PROVES HE LACKS ANY SKILLS AS A TRAINED CHEMIST! You have no argument here so we're moving on to the next!
Oh, surprise, surprise, Rudolf is an antisemite:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... s.html?m=1
According to your logic, an anti-semite can be wrong that the sky is blue because he's an anti-semite. Since your logic is flawed, it's again irrelevant to his arguments that are supported via chemistry.

You're attempt to saddle this discussion with constant ad hominem attacks and red herrings shows how ridiculous you are and how you truly have no interest in discussing the mechanics of the so called gas chambers; much less Mattogno's CURATED LIES book where he dismantled the Auschwitz Museum's attempt to distort 74 documents to fit THEIR agenda!
If Rudolf is so correct, why doesn’t he ever appear in public? Why does he only publish ‘handbooks’?
Now you're revealing what a dishonest person you are. You know damn well the British and American authorities were after him and tried to put him in jail on bogus visa violations. His imprisonment was political.

When you ignore the harassment that revisionists like Germar Rudolf have gone through, whose only crime was to write books and never recommend or promote genocide of any group of people, it shows how dishonest you are. You know damn well there is not a level playing field. You pretend there is one because lying is part and parcel of your anti-free speech agenda.

Werd
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Re: Confronting Holocaust Denial with David Baddiel

Post by Werd »

Lupus Israel wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:55 am
The “big dogs” have already been refuted over the years such as David Irving, Ernst Zundel, etc.
That's it? Only two? Irving is a holocaust believer you idiot. Haven't you been paying attention? He stabbed revisionists in the back! Besides, he's probably a compromised you know what! Secondly, I'm not sure what specifically you're talking about regarding Zundel. So I'm not going to play guessing games. Although I do know that Raul Hilberg was so shaken by cross examination in the first trial, that he refused to be called for the second Zundel trial in 1988.
The reason there is no “open debate” is because Holocaust denial is dead and buried and has been since the 1990s. Holocaust denial these days attracts a few misfits on an online forum and that is all.
Then why are so many people claiming that revisionism and anti-semitism is growing on the internet? Why do they constantly fear the spread of holocaust revisionism? Why do people like Baddiel think this is a threat if it is dead and buried like you claim? :lol:

Werd
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Re: Confronting Holocaust Denial with David Baddiel

Post by Werd »

Bump for the new guy!
Werd wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:38 pm
Asher Cohen wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:38 pm
What “good arguments” are ever presented by Holocaust deniers ?

All of the “arguments” are not arguments at all ,, they are just ramblings from uneducated clowns who simply present “arguments” to suit their racist agendas . For example , there are actually people on this forum who like to claim that the Nazis never gassed any Jews , I mean , REALLY ? Can people really be that stupid to deny that historical fact ?
You're new here so I will forgive you for not knowing the past discussions that have happened on this board. Observe!

Mattogno destroys Pressac's criminal traces (Siberian Exile. Be logged in to read it)
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3716
Or go read chapters 5 and 4 in Mattogno's book THE REAL CASE FOR AUSCHWITZ free on the internet at holocausthandbooks.com Pressac twisted and destroyed the context of so many documents that he got his hands on. It's not even funny, the anti-history that this chap engaged in!

Many so called documents about allegedly super power ovens in Birkenau that Henry Tauber claimed to burn up 4 corpses in 30 minutes in one oven, turn out to not actually verify what the lie-witnesses claimed.
viewtopic.php?p=130002#p130002
viewtopic.php?p=138685#p138685
viewtopic.php?p=138691#p138691
viewtopic.php?p=139421#p139421

Ovens were not the only things that so called eyewitnesses lied about. Many lied about flame belching chimneys. A physical impossibility.
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=7546
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7538

The so called underground corpse cellars (leichenkellers) in the Auschwitz-Birkenau crematoria did NOT actually contain sufficient traces of cyanide in the walls to be consistent with mass gassing operations.
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndgcger.html
and
The Chemistry of Auschwitz book free online
The Chemistry of Auschwitz video online
The Chemistry of Auschwitz video transcript
(an anti Markiewicz clip can be read here)
Rudolf destroys Green 1
Rudolf destroys Green 2
Rudolf destroys Green 3
Nizkor's apples-oranges argument
Painting the walls nonsense 1
Painting the walls nonsense 2
Butz and Mattogno, two opposing revisionists have done enough work against and in support of each other that while Butz started a good trial, Mattogno followed up on it and in the end, Mattogno's theory came out on top as to what Vergasungskeller actually meant. Non homicidal disinfection procedures designed to clean things and reduce mortality.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3307

While we have seen that some leichenkellers were used for storing corpses, and some were not,
viewtopic.php?p=126013#p126013
viewtopic.php?p=125948#p125948

the ones that were not storing a huge amount of corpses, were in fact used to construct emergency showers before the creation of the central sauna in 1944.
viewtopic.php?p=126077#p126077
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3308


Many so called "Special actions" were in fact sanitary measures.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3382

We even had a resident gas chamber monger admit long ago that Birkenau crematoria was expanded with more ovens added not to deal with gassed people, but to burn corpses dead from natural mortality.
viewtopic.php?p=70800#p70800
Hence ovens in and of themselves mean nothing sinister.
viewtopic.php?p=70676#p70676

Establishment historians are so shameless that one of them conjured up 100,000 gassed Jews out of thin air.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3656

A group of Polish historians claimed they found 74 documents proving criminal traces such as "special action" or "special treatment" or "sonderkommando." Upon further inspection by Carlo Mattogno, we find that "special" something refers to something innocuous. Often more sanitary measures to reduce mortality. We also find that there was more than one type of sonderkommando in the camp. In other words, not just Jews being forced to empty gas chambers and pluck gold fillings out of corpses. Actual tasks as such as building and maintenance.
viewtopic.php?p=118367#p118367
http://www.holocausthandbooks.com/index ... ge_id=1011

That's a lot on your plate for now. Perhaps we should expect a response in one or two weeks on at least a couple things brought up? Shall we expect to see quote tags containing large extracts from say Germar's chemistry analysis and then in response, your replies with better counter-arguments also with footnotes from PhD level textbooks? Because right now, Green and Markiewicz have been destroyed by Rudolf.

Or maybe you can explain to us why we should accept the IMT "judicial notice" taken under Article 21 and it's non-necessity to be bound by normal technical rules of evidence (Article 19) that was drawing criticism even back in the 1940's. Apparently, many "certified true copies" were used instead of originals and the flimsiest "affidavit" could be signed by someone (that didn't have to testify to prove themselves) for an ENTIRE CRATE of documents that the defense had little or no time to inspect.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4147

Maybe that's why they allowed such things as bogus documents such as Hoss' signed confession to pass as "evidence" in an allegedly non-kangaroo court.
Werd wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:49 pm
[...]
5. The Torture of Rudolf Hoss. - Sifting through all the different depositions of Hoss and showing how they contradict each other, the laws of science, other known Auschwitz documents, and also documenting his torture and psychological trauma - thus disqualifying him as credible. The fact that others still try to excuse or minimize his torture, "Oh he wasn't tortured before Nuremberg therefore we can believe him" is stupid. It is also revealed that his captors were playing slippery with his so called confession.
viewtopic.php?p=133605#p133605
On March 14, 1946 two days after his capture, at 2:30 in the morning, Rudolf Höss signed an 8 page typed text document written in German. The document lacked any form of formatting, headings or printed administrative references and was littered with hand written corrections. The document was also signed by two witnesses – British sergeants and a captain of the 92nd Field Security Section, who certified that the prisoner made his statement voluntarily. The captain dated his signature March 14, but one of the witnessing officers dated it March 15. The document does not bear any indication of place where it was signed. Remember the dates – March 14 or 15.

Then on April 5, 1946 Rudolf Höss signed a 20 pages long affidavit written in English – language he did not speak. He signed the affidavit under oath, even though it was written in the language of his captors, not his own.

In order to hide that Rudolf Höss had signed an affidavit in language he did not speak, the original text was recast and presented as “translation” into English from German. However during the hasty attempt to hide the deception, mistakes were made so the handwritten addition to paragraph 10 was mistakenly added to the end of paragraph 9, rendering the paragraph incomprehensible. It was the forgery that was used before the Nuremberg tribunal.

Carlo Mattogno's book that is dedicated SOLELY to the atrocity reports from the Poles and Soviets was finally completed in Italian last year (after being re-written at least two times according to my email correspondence with Germar Rudolf) and is slated to finally be put into English. Not since The Cremation Furnaces of Auschwitz, has a Mattogno book promised to be so damning!
Wider discussion on the torture and abuse of Hoss in this topic page 62 to 67

More examples of defendants being put under incredible pressure and threats.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2095
viewtopic.php?p=58493#p58493

Turnagain
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Re: Confronting Holocaust Denial with David Baddiel

Post by Turnagain »

Lupus Israel wrote:
Holocaust deniers have and always will fail because their arguments are flawed.
We seem to have a new Jew catch-phrase, "the argument is flawed". The "flaw" in the argument remains unspecified but hoaxers have apparently taken it up as a rallying cry. Care to explain what those "flaws" are, Israel?

Then we have the shibboleth that, "holyhoax denial is dead and buried and has been since the 1990s". Since the 1990s we have new sites such as Russia Insider, Christians for Truth, Daily Stormer and Voat to name just a few. Youtube had to take down all holyhoax clips or block the comments on others due to revisionist's posting. Suuuuure, Israel, nobody is paying any attention to your lies anymore. You betcha'.

Lupus Israel
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Re: Confronting Holocaust Denial with David Baddiel

Post by Lupus Israel »

I’m not able to refute Rudolf’s arguments about chemistry because I’m not a chemist. The thing is, nor is he! Are you a chemist? Do you understand his arguments?

Yes, I’m sure the only reason poor Rudolf didn’t get a PhD was because of his views. :roll: Poor Rudolf. :lol: How convenient.

Oh boy, are you creating straw men arguments against me because you can’t comprehend what I am posting on this thread? My mention of him being an antisemite was quite clearly about the fact that I was not shocked to learn that fact. Either stop putting words into my mouth or I’ll just ignore you. I’m not going to waste my time responding to straw men arguments.

There is nothing stopping Rudolf to go to somewhere like America where he can quite openly state what he thinks. You need to stop making up excuse for his coward behaviour.

Rudolf’s stupidity has already been refuted:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... f.html?m=1

Germar Rudolf's fraudulent treatment of the Balard shooting range footage.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... s.html?m=1

Germar Rudolf on Nazi Crimes

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... s.html?m=1

137 Crushed Lies, or Why Denial Is Beyond Repair

Etc, etc.

Perhaps you ought to give those article a read and see if you still believe the fraudulent man. If you do then it will be apparent that you will believe in something which has been written by a man who you thinks is some sort of expert on chemistry despite being exposed as liar, but you will no doubt dismiss anything from historians because they simply believe in ‘Jewish propaganda’.

Irving and Zundel were big names back in the day. Holocaust deniers heavily relied on them. They both failed at convincing the courts about Holocaust denial. Can you name a single Holocaust denier who has managed to change anything about what most people think know about the Holocaust? I can’t think of one.

Who claims such things? I’ve never met a Holocaust denier in real life. The fact a ew misfits post on a forum which is not known outside of white supremacy, neo-Nazi, Holocaust denial, etc, circles, does not count as proof that Holocaust denial is on the rise in big numbers.

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