Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

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Turnagain
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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie continues to beat his off topic dead horse. My last word on the subject.
Forgery - Definition, Examples, Cases, and Processes
https://legaldictionary.net/forgery/
Forgery is a criminal act that takes place when a person falsifies something with the intent to deceive another person or entity.
Here is an excerpt:
In 1970, a reclusive tycoon named Howard Hughes was the victim of forgery. Due to his isolated lifestyle, he was an easy target for Clifford Irving. Irving, an ordinary man, contacts publishing companies claiming that he had a letter signed by Hughes giving him permission to write his biography. McGraw-Hill, a famous publishing company paid Irving $765,000 to write the book. Irving boldly began writing it, believe that Hughes would never find out since he suffered from a metal disease, and never left his home. Irving was in for a shock two years later, however, as Hughes held a conference letting the world know that he did not know Irving and never gave him permission to write his biography. Irving was arrested and spent 17 months in prison.
The Stroop report was a forgery with intent to deceive.

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Nessie
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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:54 pm
....

The Stroop report was a forgery with intent to deceive.
The origins and verification of the various known copies of the Stroop Report are here;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroop_Report

There is no evidence all were faked and planted by conspirators.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

PrudentRegret
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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by PrudentRegret »

Nessie wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:47 am

Prudent Regret is.
Where did I say that?

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

PrudentRegret wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:34 pm
Nessie wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:47 am

Prudent Regret is.
Where did I say that?
You have been arguing the camps at S, B and TII were like Pabianice and then you posted this about the Hofle Telegram;

viewtopic.php?p=185995#p185995

"But if it denoted arrivals at a Sorting Center that would definitely be very interesting."
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by PrudentRegret »

Nessie wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:50 pm
PrudentRegret wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:34 pm
Nessie wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:47 am

Prudent Regret is.
Where did I say that?
You have been arguing the camps at S, B and TII were like Pabianice and then you posted this about the Hofle Telegram;

viewtopic.php?p=185995#p185995

"But if it denoted arrivals at a Sorting Center that would definitely be very interesting."
I haven't been 'arguing' that B,S,TII were 'like Pabianice', I've shown that they were.

I still have acknowledged arrivals of Jews at those camps. I never claimed that no transports of Jews ever went to those camps.

I do think some portion of those transports were likely closed wagons of property to be sorted and stored at those camps. Witnesses speak of closed wagons that sat outside for 'days' without food or water waiting to be processed at TII. Those were probably wagons filled with clothes or other property to be sorted and stored at the camp, like the many wagons of fur and textiles mentioned in the Katzmann report.

I have shown that it is most likely that SSPF Galicia handed over those trainloads of property from the liquidated Ghettos to Einsatz Reinhardt through Belzec. That conclusion hasn't even been challenged by Nick or the other ringleaders because they don't have a plausible alternative to offer. That bolsters the interpretation that the closed wagons which sat outside the camps for days were filled with furs, clothes, or other property waiting in the queue to be sorted and stored.

Considering the whole sorting operation we know happened at these camps (but the Skeptic crowd seems to go back and forth on acknowledging and denying), is the issue of sanitation at those camps. There are more parallels with Pabianice to be acknowledged here:

It is known that SS-Sonderkommando received bonus pay beyond normal salary, which has been interpreted by orthodox sources as a bounty for gassing Jews. But a Chelmno document suggests that this was hazard pay due to the 'danger of infections' of handling and transporting potentially contaminated property:
027/2/Lu/Po Litzmannstadt, 29 May 1942


Mr. Ribbe!

Subject: Sonderkommando / processing of the accumulated goods.

On your request, the wages and salaries of the people employed in the interest of the Sonderkommando are paid from the special account 12,300.

In Kulmhof, all people receive besides the usual salary also a daily danger bonus of RM 15. It would be appropriate, as our people are exposed to at least the same danger of infections, that we should also pay this danger bonus, already for the simple reason that if if really something should happen, no accusations can be made.

This would concern not only those employees with sorting and transport duties in Pabianice, but also the gentlemen in the administration, who, in the interest of the smooth running of the whole action, constantly have to look in Pabianice if everything is fine and who deal with the administration of the accumulated goods.


I ask for your opinion.

[signature]
The Pabianice connection also acknowledges the challenges of sanitation of the workforce at that sorting camp. For example:
To Mr. Police President
to the attention of Mr. Hauptmann Fliess
Litzmannstadt
Herman-Göring-Strase 114.
027721/Se/L 8.6.42

Subject: Jew working camp Pabianice

The superabundant supply of textiles, shoes, etc. from the resettlement camp Warthbrücken and the cleared Ghettos necessitates the acquisition of further storage sites. The Polish Churches in Alexanderhof and Erzhausen have been provided by the Secret State Police for this purpose. Since German workers are not available for the unloading of the cars and the stacking of things in the churches, and the use of Polish workers is not possible for the reasons known to you, Jews from the Pabianice camp must be taken for this purpose. These are working details of each 15 to 30 Jews who are taken to the respective workplace in the morning and driven back in the evening. For the guarding of these transports and supervision at the work places, I consider a police guarding necessary.

It has also proved necessary that the entire workforce of the camp is driven once a week for delousing in the disinfection facility of the Kindler company in Pabianice. In my view, the assignement of a special command of the strength of one to three men is sufficient, and the men would then be carried by the vehicles loaded with the Jews as guards.

These transports take place only during the period between 7 am and 7 pm, so that a change of men is not necessary. Since the matter is very urgent, I ask you to issue the necessary orders.

By order:
Sorting the huge trainloads of clothing from the resettlement camps and cleared Ghettos was a major bio-hazard. This would have required strict protocol at these camps for segregating clean/unclean areas of the camp, as well as solutions for delousing the workforce as was necessary in Pabianice.

If you want a laugh, you can also read HolocaustControversies uses the quantity of clothes to try to support the claim that 100,000 Jews were murdered at Chelmno, lol. Even though those warehouses included property left behind from the cleared Ghettos. The 'ol Soviet tactic of counting shoes to support gassing allegations.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... erman.html

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

PrudentRegret wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:39 pm
.....

I still have acknowledged arrivals of Jews at those camps. I never claimed that no transports of Jews ever went to those camps.

.....
How many arrivals? What then happened to those people?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:45 pm

How many arrivals? What then happened to those people?
When this has been explained enough times, even though it is off topic for this discussion, the continual asking of the same question is tantamount to thread disruption.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:54 pm
The Stroop report was a forgery with intent to deceive.
This appears true due to the fact that "the report was prepared in three distinct leather-bound copies for Himmler, Friedrich-Wilhelm Krüger and Jürgen Stroop". This would be like presenting a leather bound work on the Capitol riot presented to President Biden.
The real author obviously presented a collection of photos they took to promote sympathy for the villagers, killed in so many ways that the German toll was entirely omitted. However, this is another thread and not relevant to this one.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Huntinger »

PrudentRegret wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:34 pm
Where did I say that?
I wouldn't concern myself with Nessie, whose aim is not to correct misunderstandings but the continuation of fabrications.
In the Reich during the war there is an obvious need for mass production of essential items such as food, ammunition, bombs, rifles, fuel. If such places were not being bombed and sabotaged on a regular basis the labour muster could be determined by the factory management. Bombing of an ammunition factory or fuel processing plant would mean that a new plant would need to get up and running as soon as possible; the co-ordination of labour and finance would be a massive undertaking; a process that would normally take years would now have to take weeks to implement.

The only people I see in the Reich who could co-ordinate transfer of funds and labour would be the Ministry of Finance under Fritz Reinhardt. From 1936 to 1942, Fritz a member of the General Council of the Four Year Plan. As wiki states 'The Four Year Plan was part of the alternative governmental structure created by Hitler and the Nazi Party, which included entities such as Organisation Todt and the unification of the Schutzstaffel (SS) and the German police forces, including the Gestapo, under Heinrich Himmler.' Hermann Göring was the Minister in Charge but the State Secretary of Finance did the hard yards. Göring knew nothing about economics.

It would be logical that the labour force would be determined at various selection centres or Sortierzentrum where information would be given on a daily basis where and when labour would be required. The AR camps acted in the capacity as Sortierzentrum.
At Sobibor Alex Cohen, said " The camp SS called out they needed workers and Cohen volunteered as a metal worker. He and the other selected men were herded back onto the train and transported to the Lublin-Majdanek camp."

The old and sick were useless so they were aktioned (14F13) by law with a 9mm lead pellet on arrival at the Sortierzentrum.
Cohen and others go on to say: Sick and disabled prisoners had already been hauled onto tippers and taken on a narrow gauge railway straight into the so-called Lager III. Here the tippers were unloaded and the victims were shot;


Obviously valuables and clothing would be taken of the häftlinge on arrival, sorted, checked for jewels and sent away.
This is confirmed by Mirjam Blitz at Sobibor who said: "she and the other women who were selected to work, were taken to a barracks where they had to hand over their jewels and other personal belongings. Then they were returned to the train and taken to Lublin."

None of these Dutch people crossed the border into Ostland unlike others. Geraldien Von frijtag , "The Dutch colonization project during World War Two" said 'In July 1941, an agreement was reached on the employment of Dutch farmers in the occupied Soviet territories. In return, the Dutch state would receive a share of the harvest. In the closing months of 1941, the first 200 volunteers were sent off. Another 200 would join them in the spring of 1942. Between the summers of 1942 and 1944, the Dutch state invested millions in Dutch economic initiatives in this part of Europe. Approximately 5 500 Dutch volunteers were recruited for work.'

Whether of not Dutch villagers or others were sent there via Treblinka is still under investigation. The Dutch survivors at Sobibor nearly all describe the lager as a sorting centre, for labour and property.

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