Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

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Nessie
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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:20 am
Nessie demands to know, "Where did they gooooo?".
I demand to know what PrudentRegret states happened inside the AR camps and for him to evidence his claims.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
I demand to know what PrudentRegret states happened inside the AR camps and for him to evidence his claims.
What does that have to do with why the AR camps were named for Fritz Reinhardt?

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:45 am
Nessie wrote:
I demand to know what PrudentRegret states happened inside the AR camps and for him to evidence his claims.
What does that have to do with why the AR camps were named for Fritz Reinhardt?
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4124

PrudentRegret stated about Sobibor;

"In any case, the presence of ZGS at Sobibor fits horribly with the Wikipedia description of Aktion Reinhardt and fits perfectly with the NMT general findings that Aktion Reinhardt referred to the sequestration of property.
Given that Sobibor is understood to be an "Aktion Reinhardt" camp, the presence of Customs & Immigration at Sobibor fits the NMT understanding of Aktion Reinhardt prefectly, and fits the "extermination program" interpretation, well, not at all."

He is claiming Sobibor's only purpose was to seize property. But that makes no sense. AR cannot just be about seizing property, something also has to happen to the people. AR as a plan, must have included what to do with them, once all their property had been seized. I want to know what that was.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
AR cannot just be about seizing property, something also has to happen to the people.
Buh...buh...but where did they gooooooo?

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:41 pm
Nessie wrote:
AR cannot just be about seizing property, something also has to happen to the people.
Buh...buh...but where did they gooooooo?
No, before that. What happened inside the AR camps? Mass arrivals and then mass seizure of property, then.....what? There is a missing step inside the camps that comes before the issue of what happened once people supposedly left.

PrudentRegret needs to explain how AR did not have a plan as to what to do with the people inside the camps.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:44 pm

PrudentRegret needs to explain how AR did not have a plan as to what to do with the people inside the camps.
He has, in that the same protocols were applied to other transit camps.


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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by PrudentRegret »

been-there wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:56 am
Playing devil’s advocate for a moment, doesn’t this ALSO fit into the understanding that Aktion Reinhardt was an economic AND extermination programme?
Otherwise what had happened to the Jews whose cash, jewelry, and clothing was being appropriated?
First, that's a question worth asking and I'm going to dedicate a section to this when I collate these disparate facts into a single position paper.

To summarize: The problem with the 'Aktion Reinhardt was an economic AND extermination' narrative is the fact that 'Aktion Reinhardt' was itself a WVHA initiative to transfer the property collected by Einsatz Reinhardt from SSPF Lublin to the Reich.

It is claimed by the official narrative that Einsatz Reinhardt was established in SSPF Lublin to enact Aktion Reinhardt in General Government. But this is backwards in the timeline.

My position is that Einsatz Reinhardt was established as a subdivision of IVa, SSPF Lublin in Spring 1942. This subdivision, the 'Administration of Jewish Property' was responsible for collecting, recording, storing, administering, and delivering confiscated Jewish property to the WVHA. It's important to note that not all, or even most, of the property acquired by ER was acquired from Globocnik's transit/border camps. Much of the volume was confiscated from the ghettos before and throughout the course of resettlement.

The implication of this is that Aktion Reinhardt was downstream or an outcome of the bureaucratic objectives of IVa in SSPF Lublin. Those bureaucratic objectives are clearly established by documents. The staff of Abteilung Reinhardt in IVa SSPF Lublin were bankers and accountants. There is no way IVa ran the extermination program, it's not a plausible claim.

The 'Sonderkommandos of Einsatz Reinhardt' were designated as such because they were tasked with confiscating, recording, storing, and delivering property to Einsatz Reinhardt / IVa in SSPF Lublin. The name of the Sonderkommando was derived from the bureaucratic objective of the subdivision of IVa, which was inarguably the administration of Jewish property. The Main Trustee Office East filled an identical function in the Lodz transit camp: it confiscated and administered the property of deportees into General Government. Property confiscated by the Main Trustee Office East was also ordered to be utilized according to the exact same directives as the Aktion Reinhardt deliveries.

The major problem for the official narrative is that the evidence shows 'Aktion Reinhardt' was a WVHA economic use action which came after Einsatz Reinhardt was established under department IVa in SSPF Lublin. i.e. references to this subdivision of IVa, Einsatz Reinhardt, appear before the term 'Aktion Reinhardt' appears in documents. And when 'Aktion Reinhardt' is used, it is almost always used by the WVHA to denote the initiative to transfer this property from SSPF Lublin, IVa, Einsatz R. to the Reich:

For example, August Frank stated in direct examination:
Q. You just said that they knew nothing about it. Do you mean by this the term "Reinhardt Action"? Or do you mean the confiscation of Jewish property, generally speaking?

A. I would like to say as of now in answering this question the following: When the Action Reinhardt is mentioned, then at that particular moment when I was in the WVHA, it could never have been the extermination action. I would like to point cut clearly that the Reinhardt Action, the term as such, was always known to the WVHA as an economic use action, an action where the Jewish property could be utilized. It was approximately six weeks after the conference between Pohl and Puhl when the WVHA received a draft of an order from Lublin which bore Himmler's initials and which was the authentic basis for NO-724.
The 'Jewish property to be utilized' was that property which had been collected by IVa, Einsatz R in SSPF Lublin. For example, here is a bill that directly identifies the subdivision of IVa as 'Einsatz Reinhardt.'

Image

Given that Einsatz Reinhardt was a subdivision of IVa staffed with bankers and accountants, and Aktion Reinhardt was the WVHA initiative to liquidate the property accrued by this subdivision of SSPF Lublin, there's no room for the Official Narrative to plausibly assign 'extermination' as a bureaucratic objective of Einsatz Reinhardt or, by implication, Aktion Reinhardt.

This specific bureaucracy within SSPF Lublin and the WVHA was clearly, only concerned with the administration of Jewish property.

These facts decouple the plausibility of any association of the 'Reinhardt' code-name with extermination. Both Einsatz Reinhardt and Aktion Reinhardt were wholly defined by the confiscation, administration, and utilization of Jewish property. The 'Reinhardt' code-name itself was derived from State Secretary Reinhardt of the Reich Ministry of Finance, which was the ultimate beneficiary of these confiscations. The 'Reinhardt' code-name dealt with the confiscation and utilization of Jewish property in General Government and had nothing to do with exterminating Jews, and it had nothing to do with Heydrich for that matter.

Summary:

Einsatz Reinhardt was established under Wippern as a subdivision of IVa, SSPF Lublin in Spring 1942. Also referred to as "Abteilung Reinhardt". This division was responsible for collecting and administering Jewish cash, precious metals, jewels, and clothing confiscated in General Government.

Sonderkommandos Einsatz Reinhardt were SS responsible for fulfilling the bureaucratic objectives of Einsatz Reinhardt. This included confiscating, recording, sorting, guarding, and delivering Jewish property to Einsatz R, IVa.

Aktion Reinhardt was the WVHA initiative to transfer the property accrued by Einsatz R. to the WVHA. The WVHA enlisted Bruno Melmer to deliver this property from the WVHA headquarters in Berlin to the Reichsbank. The Reichsbank liquidated the valuables and credited the account of Max Heiliger of the Reich Ministry of Finance. This took place with agreement and coordination between Globocnik in SSPF Lublin, Himmler, and von Krosigk of the Reich Ministry of Finance.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

PrudentRegret is dodging that the confiscation of property HAS to also include what to do with the Jews once their property has been stolen and that AR documents referenced transportation and resettlement;

http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/docume ... 724%22#p.1

"Utilization of property on the occasion of settlement and evacuation of Jews." 26th September 1942

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... sheet.html

"The entire Action Reinhardt is divided into four spheres:
A. The expulsion itself.
B. The employment of labour.
C. The exploitation of property.
D. Seizure of hidden goods and landed property."

The Jews were sent to the ghettos after their homes and businesses were stolen by the Nazis. The ghettos were then emptied and the Jews sent to the AR camps with a suitcase to carry what little property they were allowed.

The problem all deniers dodge is that transportation and resettlement ends at the AR camps. Mass transports arrive with people, but none depart with people, instead property leaves. PrudentRegret has the completely mad and illogical idea that AR ends with millions of people at the AR camps, stripped of everything they own, with no plan as to what to do with those people.

AR now fits perfectly with the extermination narrative, since stripping people of everything is a precursor to gassings, not onward transport and resettlement.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:55 am
PrudentRegret is dodging that the confiscation of property HAS to also include what to do with the Jews once their property has been stolen and that AR documents referenced transportation and resettlement;
He is not dodging. It has been clearly explained that what happened to the people after sequestering property are two different organizational constructs performed by different people. The question above is another attempt to derail the thread by asking again for a trillionth time, "where did they go".


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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:02 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:55 am
PrudentRegret is dodging that the confiscation of property HAS to also include what to do with the Jews once their property has been stolen and that AR documents referenced transportation and resettlement;
He is not dodging. It has been clearly explained that what happened to the people after sequestering property are two different organizational constructs performed by different people. The question above is another attempt to derail the thread by asking again for a trillionth time, "where did they go".
Link to and quote him evidencing what happened to the people at the AR camps, once all of their property had been taken.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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