Are Holocaust Deniers Prone to Other Conspiracy Theories?

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Nessie
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Re: Are Holocaust Deniers Prone to Other Conspiracy Theories?

Post by Nessie » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:06 am

Werd wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:22 pm
Nessie wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:42 am
You treat all witnesses, no matter how much contact with and knowledge of the gassings they had
This has yet to be established.
It has been established by those who have read through all of the witnesses. You think you understand the witness evidence by just cherry picking the witnesses whose testimony is easily available to read on the internet.
Especially in Treblinka where witnesses not only couldn't agree on the sizes of pits, the pyres, the skin colour of freshly gassed corpses, or even how the bodies burned - since some claimed blood was flammable enough to engulf a dug pit with bodies in it and burn all the corpses. In fact we have at least TWO KNOWN WITNESSES LYING SAYING BLOOD WAS FLAMMABE IN TREBLINKA. Mrs, Auerbach and Mr. Czarny. We're dealing with lunatics, here. And not one liar was ever punished in court for lying, as I already demonstrated.
With that, you show you do not even know how to identify if someone is a witness or not!
As I said before the ONLY EVIDENCE of what happened in Treblinka that Nessie has is weak eyewitness testimony, much of which violates the laws of physics and an inability to track every Jew during and after the war. Lie-witnesses and missing Jews aren't enough to established the existence of the massive pits required to hold hundreds of thousands of dead Jews in Treblinka. Hell, are we supposed to believe the Nazis were so good at dumping lime into pits in Treblinka and letting corpses rot long enough to get hard and cause wax-fat transformation barriers to prevent the top layer corpses from poisoning the water well that was in Treblinka II? :roll:
There are contemporary photographs of the site to show a large area of disturbed ground at TII. That is part of the evidence that the Nazis excavated at the site.

There are photographs showing human remains and with expert identification of cremated remains. That is part of the evidence people were cremated and their remains were buried there.

There are GPR and electrical resistance survey results that also show excavations of pits where witnesses stated there had been mass graves at the camp

That corroborates the witness evidence of mass graves, exhumations and reburial of the cremains.
The idea that you could pack 3000 bodies on one pyre tightly in multiple layers with no air flow around the corpses, and minimal or no wood (since we don't know whence it came and hardly any witnesses can explain it), and reduce them to smashable skeletons in 5-6 hours is stupid; it's stupid because of what past cremation experiments have taught us about how long it takes to burn one or two corpses and how much wood is necessary to keep a fire going that will be hot enough and last long enough to break open the bodies and ignite all the fat content. You can't just scream "fat content" and "wood" and "where did the Jews go then?" Nobody is denying the presence of fat content. Nobody is denying the presence or necessity of wood to burn corpses. Well that is, except for a couple of lying inmates.
Your arguments from incredulity, that since you do not believe the pyres would work, therefore they could not have worked, is a mere fallacy.

That you cannot find any evidence to show what did happen instead, logically means that what is evidenced happened, despite your misgivings.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Are Holocaust Deniers Prone to Other Conspiracy Theories?

Post by Nessie » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:33 am

Scott wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:21 pm
StephenP wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:38 pm

I'm not sure if this belongs in this part of the forum so I'm just going to post this here.

Are Holocaust deniers prone to other types of conspiracy theories? I have in mind 9-11, the moon landing is a fake, the assassination of JFK, etc.? I am curious, I've spent a little time going to different sites, blogs and forums that espouse Holocaust denial. I noticed that many of them also believe in other conspiracy theories.

Is this a common attitude?


i'm a bit late to this thread which seems to have gone off the rails a bit--but the term "conspiracy-theory" is a bit vague and loaded.

The first thing to note is that not all conspiracy-theories are equal.
The reasons why Holocaust denial is one of the weakest, most pathetic conspiracy theories that has no basis in reality.

1 - Some conspiracy theorists understand the burden of proof and others do not. Denial reverses the burden of proof and refuses to acknowledge what it means that they cannot evidence something else happened inside the AR camps and kremas, other than gassings. At least those who say the earth is flat and 9/11 was caused by pre planted explosives understand that it is up to them to evidence their claim.

2 - Denial is also akin to those who believe aliens have landed on earth and bigfoot roams US forests. None can provide credible, corroborating evidence, in any form, to back up that claim. They just demand belief without evidence. There is no conspiracy that is so large, yet so evidence free, as denial. Not finding evidence of something that is allegedly very rare, such as bigfoot, is hardly surprising. Not finding any evidence of millions of people who were in Nazi captivity, surviving beyond being transported to only 4 camps is very odd indeed.

3 - Denial is reliant on logical fallacies. Denial involves cherry picking some things some witnesses said and then disputing the possibility of what they described to then claim all the witnesses lied. Just because a witness said something that does not ring true, or we are not sure how something worked, does not therefore mean that witness lied and it could never have worked. It is not clear how one of the bullets that shot JFK travelled. At least those who have studied that shooting do not them claim that bullet was faked and that shot did not happen. They understand just because they do not know how something happened, that does not mean therefore it cannot have happened.

4 - Deniers lie, a lot. Their main lie is that there is no evidence of the gassings, graves and cremations. They happily discuss all of the evidence and then claim because they do not believe it, it somehow magically disappears. The reason why deniers do that is to avoid thinking about their own lack of any evidence to back up their claims.

5 - Denial is heavily promoted by anti-Semites, anti-Israel and Nazi apologists. It has a clear agenda to spread hate for Jewish people by claiming Jews hoaxed the world to make money and get sympathy and justification for the state of Israel.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Are Holocaust Deniers Prone to Other Conspiracy Theories?

Post by Turnagain » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:58 am

Nessie wrote:
It has been established by those who have read through all of the witnesses. You think you understand the witness evidence by just cherry picking the witnesses whose testimony is easily available to read on the internet.
You have previously stated that neither I nor you have read all of the witness accounts of Treblinka. Are you now claiming to have read all of the witnesses' testimony?
With that, you show you do not even know how to identify if someone is a witness or not!
Nessie claims that both Bomba, who cut hair inside the gas chamber that he also described as a vacuum chamber and Rajchman, who worked as a "dentist" pulling gold dental appliances from victims directly outside the gas chamber that he also described as a vacuum chamber weren't witnesses to the vacuum chamber. Nessie's criteria for judging whether or not a person is a witness depends on whether or not Nessie agrees with the witness. Nessie is aware that the vacuum chamber tale is a bust so, voila', no witnesses.

Nessie then trots out all of his well worn shibboleths about bone shards and "disturbed ground". So it goes in Nessie's holyhoax la-la land. He still has...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Nessie
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Re: Are Holocaust Deniers Prone to Other Conspiracy Theories?

Post by Nessie » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:36 am

Turnagain wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:58 am
Nessie wrote:
It has been established by those who have read through all of the witnesses. You think you understand the witness evidence by just cherry picking the witnesses whose testimony is easily available to read on the internet.
You have previously stated that neither I nor you have read all of the witness accounts of Treblinka. Are you now claiming to have read all of the witnesses' testimony?
No. I am referring to those who have read and understood the witness evidence.

Why do you think someone who was perimeter guard at an AR camp, such as Fedorenko, would have the same knowledge of the gassing process as someone who worked the gas chambers, such as Fuchs?

Why do think Bomba, who cut hair, would have seen exactly the same things as Wiernik, who did construction work and helped empty the gas chambers?

Why do you think all of the witnesses, when they gave their testimony at different times, under different circumstances, would say the same thing?

Why do you think that witnesses who tell the truth never make mistakes?

Why do you think all estimates of size would be the same, if the witnesses were telling the truth?
With that, you show you do not even know how to identify if someone is a witness or not!
Nessie claims that both Bomba, who cut hair inside the gas chamber that he also described as a vacuum chamber and Rajchman, who worked as a "dentist" pulling gold dental appliances from victims directly outside the gas chamber that he also described as a vacuum chamber weren't witnesses to the vacuum chamber. Nessie's criteria for judging whether or not a person is a witness depends on whether or not Nessie agrees with the witness. Nessie is aware that the vacuum chamber tale is a bust so, voila', no witnesses.
You are lying again. I do not think they are not witnesses. They are witnesses and you know I regard them as witnesses, since I refer to their testimony as evidence. You liar.

If Bomba and Rajchamn said the same thing and described what they saw with the same words and gave the same estimated sizes, that would be evidence they colluded and made up their testimony together. In real life, when witnesses have a different perspective and recall of what happened and they do not collude, their detail descriptions do vary. That variation gives them credibility.

Neither of them said they actually saw a vacuum being used. They are clearly recalling something they had heard about, rather than saw. Both describe actually seeing the gassings. Witnesses will often mix hearsay and what they actually saw into the same testimony. Those who have read all of the testimony and who are brighter than you, understand that.

It does not matter how many times the difference between hearsay, opinion and actual eye witness evidence is explained to you, you are unable to understand and differentiate.
Nessie then trots out all of his well worn shibboleths about bone shards and "disturbed ground". So it goes in Nessie's holyhoax la-la land. He still has...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
You are lying again, I do have evidence. It is you who has no evidence.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Are Holocaust Deniers Prone to Other Conspiracy Theories?

Post by Turnagain » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:53 am

Nessie wrote:
Why do you think someone who was perimeter guard at an AR camp, such as Fedorenko, would have the same knowledge of the gassing process as someone who worked the gas chambers, such as Fuchs?
Nessie then wrote:
Neither of them said they actually saw a vacuum being used. They are clearly recalling something they had heard about, rather than saw. Both describe actually seeing the gassings. Witnesses will often mix hearsay and what they actually saw into the same testimony. Those who have read all of the testimony and who are brighter than you, understand that.
Uh-huh, the perimeter guard had the "same knowledge of the gassing process" but Bomba, Rajchman and four other witnesses were just repeating hearsay and rumors. Got it.

You still have...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Nessie
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Re: Are Holocaust Deniers Prone to Other Conspiracy Theories?

Post by Nessie » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:21 am

Turnagain wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:53 am
Nessie wrote:
Why do you think someone who was perimeter guard at an AR camp, such as Fedorenko, would have the same knowledge of the gassing process as someone who worked the gas chambers, such as Fuchs?
Nessie then wrote:
Neither of them said they actually saw a vacuum being used. They are clearly recalling something they had heard about, rather than saw. Both describe actually seeing the gassings. Witnesses will often mix hearsay and what they actually saw into the same testimony. Those who have read all of the testimony and who are brighter than you, understand that.
Uh-huh, the perimeter guard had the "same knowledge of the gassing process" but Bomba, Rajchman and four other witnesses were just repeating hearsay and rumors. Got it.
You are showing such a high level of misunderstanding, that it is no longer clear if you really are that thick of if you are just trolling me with idiotic answers, as Huntiger does.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Are Holocaust Deniers Prone to Other Conspiracy Theories?

Post by torus9 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:55 am



...just a theory.

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Re: Are Holocaust Deniers Prone to Other Conspiracy Theories?

Post by Turnagain » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:08 am

Nessie wrote:
You are showing such a high level of misunderstanding, that it is no longer clear if you really are that thick of if you are just trolling me with idiotic answers, as Huntiger does.
LOL! Nessie has no answer for his obvious contradiction. So it goes in Nessie's holyhoax la-la land.

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Re: Are Holocaust Deniers Prone to Other Conspiracy Theories?

Post by Nessie » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:37 am

Turnagain wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:08 am
Nessie wrote:
You are showing such a high level of misunderstanding, that it is no longer clear if you really are that thick of if you are just trolling me with idiotic answers, as Huntiger does.
LOL! Nessie has no answer for his obvious contradiction. So it goes in Nessie's holyhoax la-la land.
You clearly did not understand what I had said when you responded "Uh-huh, the perimeter guard had the "same knowledge of the gassing process" but Bomba, Rajchman and four other witnesses were just repeating hearsay and rumors. Got it."

I made it clear that Fedorenko would not have the same level of knowledge of gassings as Fuchs, because one was a perimeter guard and the other worked the gas chambers.

I have repeatedly had to remind you that you cannot produce a witness who actually said he saw a vacuum in use. They all refer to vacuums, but they did not see it happen, which means what they said is hearsay evidence and they are repeating a rumour.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Are Holocaust Deniers Prone to Other Conspiracy Theories?

Post by Turnagain » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:05 pm

The gas/vacuum chambers are a staple of the holyhoax tale. The 10X25X50 meter graves plus the larger 12X30X50 and smaller 6X15X120 meter graves and the magic Jew barbeque that cremated bodies without fuel are equally touted. Your attempts to mitigate such absurdities are a FAIL, Nessie. You have...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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