Definition of National Socialism - How nationalist was it? How socialist was it?

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The Marxist Corey
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Definition of National Socialism - How nationalist was it? How socialist was it?

Post by The Marxist Corey »

What exactly is the definition of National Socialism?

How could the Nazis have been nationalists when Reich citizenship was not restricted to only ethnic Germans? The German people were not considered to be one unified people, but a mixture of different peoples.

The Nuremberg Laws allowed people of German or related blood to Reich citizens. Thus, instead of actually uniting a German people (Volk), they actually allowed different peoples, including some they considered to be racially inferior to be Reich citizens. In fact, someone who was half-Jewish or less was allowed to be a Reich citizen and someone who was 1/4 Jewish or less was allowed to marry an ‘Aryan’ without having to ask for permission.

How could the Nazis have been socialists when the economy of the Third Reich was not socialist by any stretch of the imagination? Also, the first people prosecuted by the Nazis were not Jews, but political opponents, namely socialists and communists (Marxists). The Nazis banned all other political parties.

The Nazis were against internationalism, a key aspect of socialism. The Nazis allowed private property to exist, something socialism does not allow. There is no evidence the Nazis were socialists, despite their adoption of ‘socialist’ in the name of the party.


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Re: Definition of National Socialism - How nationalist was it? How socialist was it?

Post by Huntinger »

The Marxist Corey wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:29 pm
The Nazis were against internationalism, a key aspect of socialism. The Nazis allowed private property to exist, something socialism does not allow. There is no evidence the Nazis were socialists, despite their adoption of ‘socialist’ in the name of the party.
This has been dealt with and perhaps more appropriate to the lounge. By todays standards the laws seem somewhat draconian but in those days they were in line with other Nations such as the US; the Reich was merely following a world standard set by the US such as the Jim Crowe laws put into effect in 1877; Jim Crow laws were state and local laws that enforced racial segregation in the Southern United States. All were enacted in the late 19th and early 20th centuries by white Democratic-dominated state legislatures after the Reconstruction period. The laws were enforced until 1965.

The National Socialists were not socialists but followed the principle "Sozial geht nur National" (Social only works Nationally) as does the NPD today.
The Communists were a distinct threat to the security of not only Deutschland but Europe; Berlin at the time was considered another Moscow, there were so many Bolsheviks; it was a city in turmoil, as was the country after the defeat of WWI.

While National Socialism was its own brand of Socialism, with the demise of the Socialist minded Sturmabteilung after operation Hummingbird what people now think of National Socialism in reality became Hitlerism; this was seen and referred to as such by Churchill and others.

National Socialism is alive, it never died.
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Re: Definition of National Socialism - How nationalist was it? How socialist was it?

Post by been-there »

If you are American, to understand this you will need to UNLEARN your indoctrination into misinformation of the definition of Socialism .
Socialism can manifest in many forms.

They were not JUST 'nationalists'.
They were not just 'socialists'.
They WERE basing their politics on a form of socialist 'capitalism' that recognised rights to property.
They were NOT Communists.
Nor were they communist socialists.

If you have been educated in America you probably will have difficulty understanding this, but 'socialism' and 'capitalism' are not necessarily mutually contradictory!

The NSDAP were Nationalistic Capitalist-Socialists. That you think these terms are mutually exclusive is proof of your own indoctrination into beliefs that require denial of reality. They chose the name that explained and represented their political outlook so that like-minded people would join and support their political movement. The idea that they made up a name to deceive is ludicrous.

They were a nationalistic, socialist, party for Germans workers. They chose a specific and very descriptive name as they wanted to expose and exclude people who didn't work and who they saw as parasites on society, viz. people who often were not of German ethnicity and/or who made profit from usury, property and exploitation of people through vice, extortion, etc.

Here is an English translation of the last seventeen points from their 25 point, 1920 manifesto. As you will see, these prove they definitely were 'socialists'. The first eight points prove they also were nationalists.
9. All citizens shall have equal rights and duties.
10. Every citizen should have a job. Their work should not be selfish, but help everyone. Therefore we demand
11. The abolition of incomes unearned by work. The breaking of the slavery of interest
12. So many people die or lose their property in a war, it is wrong for other people to make money from the war. Anyone who made money from the war should have all that money taken away.
13. We want all very big corporations to be owned by the government.
14. Big industrial companies should share their profits with the workers.
15. We want old age pensions to be increased.
16. We want:
— to create a healthy middle class
— to split up big department stores, and let small traders rent space inside them
— to make State and town governments try to buy from small traders.
17. We want to change the way land is owned. We also want
— a law to take over land if the country needs it, without the government having to pay for it;
— to abolish ground rent; and
— to prohibit land speculation (buying land just to sell to someone else for more money).
18. Crimes against the common interest must be punished with death.
19. We want the Roman law system changed for the German common law system.
20. We want to change the system of schools and education, so that every hard-working German can have the chance of higher education.
— What is taught should concentrate on practical things
— Schools should teach civic affairs, so that children can become good citizens
— If poor parent cannot afford to pay the government should pay for education.
21. The State must protect health standards by
— protecting mothers and infants
— stopping children from working
— making a law for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and
— supporting sports clubs for young men.
22. We want to get rid of the old army and replace it with a people's army that would look after the ordinary people, not just the rich officer-class
23. We want the law to stop politicians from being anti-German, and newspapers from writing about them. To make a German national press we demand:
— that all editors of, and writers in the German language newspapers are members of the nation (of a German race);
— Foreign newspapers need permission from the government. They must not be printed in the German language;
— Non-Germans cannot own or control German newspapers.
— any non German who does own or control a newspaper will be made to leave Germany, and the newspaper closed down,
— Newspapers which criticise the country or the government are not allowed.
— Art and books which support foreign ideas, should be banned.
24. We want to allow all religions in the State, unless they offend the moral feelings of the German race. The NSDAP is Christian, but does not belong to any denomination. The NSDAP will fight the Jewish self-interest spirit, and believes that our nation will be strongest only if everyone puts the common interest before self-interest.
25. We will
— create a strong central government for the Reich;
— give Parliament control over the entire government and its organisations;
— form groups based on class and job to carry out the laws in the various German states.
The leaders of the Party promise to work—if need be to sacrifice their very lives—to put this programme into action.
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Re: Definition of National Socialism - How nationalist was it? How socialist was it?

Post by The Marxist Corey »

“Nationalistic Capitalist-Socialists” is an oxymoron. One cannot be a capitalist and a socialist, politically speaking they are the complete opposite of each other. Go and grab a dictionary and look at the definitions of the two words and then get back to me.

The 25-points don’t prove they were socialists. How many of the 25-points were actually put into practice? They attempted to change the definition of socialism to suit their own needs. They adopted the term ‘socialist’ to try and appeal to more ordinary Germans. Don’t forget that in the last free election the Nazis actually lost votes to the Communists.

You’re just spouting the same crap the Nazis did. They were allegedly against capitalism and yet still allowed private property and other things associated with capitalism to exist. They were allegedly socialists, but they persecuted socialists as soon as they came to power and banned other political parties.

Everyone who doesn’t so happen to believe in your strange view about things is always to be regarded as “in denial”, “indoctrinated”, etc. Get a grip boy.

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Re: Definition of National Socialism - How nationalist was it? How socialist was it?

Post by The Marxist Corey »

Been-there thinks that capitalism and socialism are not the complete opposite of each other. And, then he has the nerve to think anyone who doesn’t agree with that idea is indoctrinated.

In capitalism the market decides the economy. In socialism a non-market decides the economy, normally a big state. They are not compatible at all.

I think been-there is confusing SOCIAL with SOCIALISM.

It’s time for been-there to do some reading on capitalism and socialism.

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Re: Definition of National Socialism - How nationalist was it? How socialist was it?

Post by been-there »

The Marxist Corey wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:56 pm
Been-there thinks that capitalism and socialism are not the complete opposite of each other. And, then he has the nerve to think anyone who doesn’t agree with that idea is indoctrinated.

In capitalism the market decides the economy. In socialism a non-market decides the economy, normally a big state. They are not compatible at all.

I think been-there is confusing SOCIAL with SOCIALISM.

It’s time for been-there to do some reading on capitalism and socialism.
Are you American?
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they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Re: Definition of National Socialism - How nationalist was it? How socialist was it?

Post by The Marxist Corey »

been-there wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:45 pm
The Marxist Corey wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:56 pm
Been-there thinks that capitalism and socialism are not the complete opposite of each other. And, then he has the nerve to think anyone who doesn’t agree with that idea is indoctrinated.

In capitalism the market decides the economy. In socialism a non-market decides the economy, normally a big state. They are not compatible at all.

I think been-there is confusing SOCIAL with SOCIALISM.

It’s time for been-there to do some reading on capitalism and socialism.
Are you American?
My nationality has nothing to do with this matter. My nationality has nothing to do with your ignorance on the definitions of capitalism and socialism.

You never answered my question - how many of the ‘socialist’ policies in the 25-points were put into practice?

You’re also ignoring the facts that the Nazis banned socialist parties and persecuted socialists during the Third Reich.

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Re: Definition of National Socialism - How nationalist was it? How socialist was it?

Post by Turnagain »

That's amusing. What the German National Socialists called "socialism" doesn't fit Corey's definition of socialism so the National Socialists couldn't be "real socialists". According to Corey, that is.

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Re: Definition of National Socialism - How nationalist was it? How socialist was it?

Post by been-there »

The Marxist Corey wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:56 pm
been-there wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:45 pm
The Marxist Corey wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:56 pm
Been-there thinks that capitalism and socialism are not the complete opposite of each other. And, then he has the nerve to think anyone who doesn’t agree with that idea is indoctrinated.

In capitalism the market decides the economy. In socialism a non-market decides the economy, normally a big state. They are not compatible at all.

I think been-there is confusing SOCIAL with SOCIALISM.

It’s time for been-there to do some reading on capitalism and socialism.
Are you American?
My nationality has nothing to do with this matter...

You never answered my question...
Oh boy! :roll:

I just explained precisely WHY I think your question has EVERYTHING to do with your nationality.

If you are American, to understand this you will need to UNLEARN your indoctrination into misinformation of the definition of Socialism .
Socialism can manifest in many forms.

The NSDAP WAS a political ideology that was a form of socialist 'capitalism' that recognised rights to property.
Do you REALLY believe no-one could own property!? :o :?

If you have been educated in America, that will explain why you have difficulty understanding this. BECAUSE your question comes from an ignorance that insists 'socialism' and 'capitalism' are necessarily mutually contradictory! They are not.
Socialist capitalist democracies have been creating the highest standards of living in Scandinavia for decades.

The NSDAP were Nationalist Capitalist-Socialists. That you think these terms are mutually exclusive is proof of your own indoctrination into beliefs that require denial of reality. They chose the name that explained and represented their political outlook so that like-minded people would join and support their political movement. The idea that they made up a name to deceive is ludicrous.

They were a nationalistic, socialist, party for Germans workers. They chose a specific and very descriptive name as they wanted to expose and exclude people who didn't work and who they saw as parasites on society, viz. people who often were not of German ethnicity and/or who made profit from usury, property and exploitation of people through vice, extortion, etc.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: Definition of National Socialism - How nationalist was it? How socialist was it?

Post by The Marxist Corey »

been-there wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:20 pm
The Marxist Corey wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:56 pm
been-there wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:45 pm
The Marxist Corey wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:56 pm
Been-there thinks that capitalism and socialism are not the complete opposite of each other. And, then he has the nerve to think anyone who doesn’t agree with that idea is indoctrinated.

In capitalism the market decides the economy. In socialism a non-market decides the economy, normally a big state. They are not compatible at all.

I think been-there is confusing SOCIAL with SOCIALISM.

It’s time for been-there to do some reading on capitalism and socialism.
Are you American?
My nationality has nothing to do with this matter...

You never answered my question...
Oh boy! :roll:

I just explained precisely WHY I think your question has EVERYTHING to do with your nationality.

If you are American, to understand this you will need to UNLEARN your indoctrination into misinformation of the definition of Socialism .
Socialism can manifest in many forms.

The NSDAP WAS a political ideology that was a form of socialist 'capitalism' that recognised rights to property.
Do you REALLY believe no-one could own property!? :o :?

If you have been educated in America, that will explain why you have difficulty understanding this. BECAUSE your question comes from an ignorance that insists 'socialism' and 'capitalism' are necessarily mutually contradictory! They are not.
Socialist capitalist democracies have been creating the highest standards of living in Scandinavia for decades.

The NSDAP were Nationalist Capitalist-Socialists. That you think these terms are mutually exclusive is proof of your own indoctrination into beliefs that require denial of reality. They chose the name that explained and represented their political outlook so that like-minded people would join and support their political movement. The idea that they made up a name to deceive is ludicrous.

They were a nationalistic, socialist, party for Germans workers. They chose a specific and very descriptive name as they wanted to expose and exclude people who didn't work and who they saw as parasites on society, viz. people who often were not of German ethnicity and/or who made profit from usury, property and exploitation of people through vice, extortion, etc.
You clearly don’t understand even the basic definitions of capitalism and socialism. You try and personally attack me and accuse me of being indoctrinated because of your own ignorance.

You can keep on repeating the same unfounded claims, it doesn’t mean they are going to become true. Your argument from repetition is already boring me.

The Nazis were not socialists by any definition of the word ‘socialist’. They persecuted socialists and banned other political parties.

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