Sobibor Photos

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Huntinger
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Re: Sobibor Photos

Post by Huntinger » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:03 pm

This thread is about photos, not all the other crap Nessie wants to derail threads with. This is pure thread derailment
Nessie wrote:I have 21. You can start with Fuchs and Bauer. Prove they were lying.
Unless Fuchs and Bauer have something to do with these Sobibor photos keep them out of it.
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Depth Check
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Re: Sobibor Photos

Post by Depth Check » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:34 pm

Certain off topic troll posts and replies to them have been removed from this thread.

Nessie had nothing of value to add to the discussion of the newly released Sobibor photographs but still he kept on, and on, and on, off topic posting. Nessie is a habitual offender who has no real interest in honest debate therefore I have removed his posting privileges in the Holocaust forum.

A heads up for Nessie. I don't know how old you are but it is a safe bet you will be drawing your pension before I allow you access to this forum again.

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Sobibor Photos: camp 1

Post by Huntinger » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:32 pm

Camp one
Looking at the rear of the Kammandantur, the Hakenkreuz is draped over the roof.

Looking East at camp one, this photo was taken in 1943; camp one is where the Prisoners lived. Note the total lack of buildings.
There is a building or shack in the middle of the compound that looks like a garden shed or chook house. There is an inner lightly fenced of compound that looks totally rectangular, about 15 metres from the shrub; this has a man inside it.
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Witnesses have drawn the camp one as follows: this is area B in this map.
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Note to compare and contrast that the huts in the photo are no there, nor the guard tower at the entrance which say Mijenveld.
(minefield). This is a fabrication as this is where the striped pill box and guards were, in the photo below. One does not have the SS flag and the Hakenkreuz flying on striped poles with Sonderkommando for a mere guard entrance. This was a main entrance.
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Look at the photo of the camp above, one can see the entrance with the flag and a path to the right. This indicates there were no mines, at least not there. The buildings in the diagram above do not match up with the actual photos proving it is a fabrication.
Another diagram has similar flaws and do not align with the photographic evidence.
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Here is an aerial photo of camp one and Kammandantur including buildings with sonderkommando entrance. This aligns with the photo above taken by the Officer.
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Re: Sobibor Photos

Post by Huntinger » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:04 pm

Sobibor then and now. Compare and contrast building alignments etc with witness maps.

This camp was supposedly razed to the ground and yet the Kammandantur and many of the older buildings are still there.
Within days of the uprising, the SS chief Heinrich Himmler ordered the camp closed, dismantled, and planted with trees.
Well all one can say looking at the photos below they did a poor job dismantling. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:



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1943
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1944 drawing Luftwaffe
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Closer look at drawing above
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Google Earth 2020
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Re: Sobibor Photos

Post by Huntinger » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:24 pm

This is the perspective currently of interest. This Google Earth photo is taken from the same perspective as the one below to compare and contrast.
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Google Earth 2020
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Points
  • Camp one does not have any buildings as described by the witness diagrams. This clear lack of buildings means this area had another purpose and not to house people with workshops etc.
  • The entrance clearly seen in the Somderkomanndo photo has two building at right angles to each other; this is shown in the photo above.
    This entrance is not shown in the witness diagrams. The fake witness diagrams show a mere guard tower and minefields.
  • There is no moat or barbed wire electric fences as described by the witnesses. Due to this being an entrance mines are also unlikely.
  • There are shrubs up at the fence as described by eyewitnesses but easily seen by interested groups from outside the camp. It seems that this and the location of the Kammandantur is the only thing these people got right.
There is a total lack of hard security at this camp, unlike say Birkenau with its electric fences; there is a total lack of buildings where there should be a small village set up; this is evidence this area at least had another function.
In keeping with the theme of a customs post and emigration it would appear two sections of the camp must be isolated; it is highly likely that those who passed through customs resided in area three of the camp where they were moved on. This is no different to waiting in an airport lounge after passing through customs etc.


This maps of Sobibor Camp Spring 1942 can be found here
I have superimposed two actual photos. I have mentioned this before but it is important that readers understand the implications.
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  • Top photo shows camp one or area in diagram called camp labor force as it really was.
    There is an insecure fenced of area with a single small shack, a man and a building running parallel to the back fence.
    The diagram fostered onto the public in no way corresponds to the photo by Johann Niemann.
  • There is a red line from the Sonderkommano entrance photo to where it should be on the diagram. This actual entrance is not even indicated on the diagram, let alone the two buildings that are at right angles to each other. Readers can read the captions themselves and decide if there is barbed wire and minefields.
It is also noted that the guard box to the rear of the camp is not painted in the stripes of a border post; no need to as the public do not go that way.
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Re: Sobibor Photos

Post by Charles Traynor » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:56 pm

Thank you for your initial assessment of the currently released Sobibor photographs, Huntinger. However, I would strongly caution against assuming striped posts represented a border crossing during the 1940s. I have crossed numerous borders in Europe without witnessing striped barbershop like poles. In fact the striped poles in the photograph you posted earlier are obviously to protect expensive cameras monitoring that border point from drugged up/drunk/negligent vehicle drivers.

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Kitty Hart-Moxon (1998): "Believe me, I came into Auschwitz in a much worse condition than I actually left it."

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Re: Sobibor Photos

Post by Charles Traynor » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:38 pm

Here is another image of Sobibor looking towards the camp from the SE. I will try and provide a better copy of the photograph at a later date when I have more time. I cannot see vast plumes of black smoke rising high into the sky, nor can I see carrion birds circling the site. However, this has not stopped Dr. Terry attempting to weaponize this picture. I suspect this completely innocent photograph will remain controversial for a very long time as exterminationists move into damage limitation mode and attempt to change the physical layout of the camp to better suit the photograph in the coming years.


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Kitty Hart-Moxon (1998): "Believe me, I came into Auschwitz in a much worse condition than I actually left it."

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Re: Sobibor Photos

Post by Huntinger » Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:22 am

Charles Traynor wrote: ↑
Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:38 pm

Image
What a great photo. A "top secret" camp with flags flying and a name. According to the map above the first building with a man standing on the steps serves as a combined building for dentist work and acts as a jail for the Trawniki guards. The next building with what looks like geraniums at the windows and doors was an SS Service Centre; it is nice to know that the SS had time for nice flowers.
The building behind the SS pole and flag with curtains in the window is also SS quarters.
No doubt the camp drawings will have to be modified to fit in with the actual photos.
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Re: Sobibor Photos

Post by Turnagain » Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:41 am

Looks like H.E.A.R.T. is going to have to redraw it's maps of Sobibor. BTW, do you know the purpose of the tower in the right center of the photo?

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Re: Sobibor Photos

Post by Huntinger » Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:51 am

Turnagain wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:41 am
BTW, do you know the purpose of the tower in the right center of the photo?
That is the "Forestry Tower"; Sobibor was once a Forestry camp. It was used by Foresters to look out for forestry fires.
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The centre of the park in the Lubelskie voivodship is taken by forest settlement called SobibΓ³r Osada, with many forest keepers lodges.
Apparently the Kammandandtur of the Sobibor lager is now re-used by Forestry.
BTW readers will not know what H.E.A.R.T means Holocaust Era Asset Restitution Taskforce ;)
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