Turnagain's "hermetic seal" for the formal section

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Turnagain
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Re: Turnagain's "hermetic seal" for the formal section

Post by Turnagain »

Volumetric efficiency doesn't have anything to do with the amount of air drawn into an engine and then expelled as exhaust. Are you suggesting that an engine can take in X amount of air and exhaust Y amount? That contradicts the law of the conservation of energy. It can be converted to other gasses but claiming that the volume changes is ludicrous.

Equally, your claim that the original three room gas chamber was demolished after a month of use is pure bullshit.


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Re: Turnagain's "hermetic seal" for the formal section

Post by blake121666 »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:31 am
Volumetric efficiency doesn't have anything to do with the amount of air drawn into an engine and then expelled as exhaust. Are you suggesting that an engine can take in X amount of air and exhaust Y amount? That contradicts the law of the conservation of energy. It can be converted to other gasses but claiming that the volume changes is ludicrous.

Equally, your claim that the original three room gas chamber was demolished after a month of use is pure bullshit.
You are assuming the cylinders are filled to the max with air - they aren't. That is where volumetric efficiency comes in. It is greater than one with forced charging. These engines were naturally aspirated, no doubt. And so they were about 3/4 filled at each intake.

You need to correlate any claims about the running time of the engine to what was being done for that running time. Gassing TEN rooms was what was being done.

Even your own calculation shows no problem with the correct volumes entered.

That being the case, you now have ME wondering if the chambers were hermetically sealed! :lol:

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Re: Turnagain's "hermetic seal" for the formal section

Post by Huntinger »

blake121666 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:36 am


That being the case, you now have ME wondering if the chambers were hermetically sealed! :lol:
Ten buildings blowing up instead of one would be quite spectacular. Oh wait, when they said asphyxiation and air removal how many gaskammeer were there then? Either way, implosion, explosion all good stuff.


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Re: Turnagain's "hermetic seal" for the formal section

Post by Turnagain »

I was assuming 100% efficiency of the engine. That was wrong. Naturally aspirated engines achieve about 85% efficiency so the L-12 would produce about 18.4 cubic meters of exhaust per minute at 1,600 RPM. Not enough to change the outcome of turning the exhaust into a 142.5 cubic meter (three chambers of 47.5 cubic meters) gas chamber. Where you've come up with the new 10 room gas chamber as the only gas chamber ever available at Treblinka is still a mystery. You seem to be relying on Nessie's old standbys, "The witnesses made a 'mistake'" or they were repeating hearsay and in either case didn't actually know their arse from their elbow.

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Re: Turnagain's "hermetic seal" for the formal section

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:14 am
I was assuming 100% efficiency of the engine. That was wrong. Naturally aspirated engines achieve about 85% efficiency so the L-12 would produce about 18.4 cubic meters of exhaust per minute at 1,600 RPM. Not enough to change the outcome of turning the exhaust into a 142.5 cubic meter (three chambers of 47.5 cubic meters) gas chamber. Where you've come up with the new 10 room gas chamber as the only gas chamber ever available at Treblinka is still a mystery. You seem to be relying on Nessie's old standbys, "The witnesses made a 'mistake'" or they were repeating hearsay and in either case didn't actually know their arse from their elbow.
You have based your claim on the largest engine, putting out the largest volume of exhaust, into the smallest gas chamber dimensions you can find.

Until you know what the CO content was of the exhaust, you do not know how much exhaust was needed to fill the chambers to the point those inside would die and the engine could be switched off.

Some witnesses describe the engine was being run for a shorter time than others. It makes sense that they were referring to the old over the new gas chamber.

If that engine only ran for a few minutes to get the CO to fatal levels, there is no pressure issue.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Turnagain's "hermetic seal" for the formal section

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
You have based your claim on the largest engine, putting out the largest volume of exhaust, into the smallest gas chamber dimensions you can find.
Which is larger? A 27 liter engine or a 46.9 liter engine? Does an engine put out more exhaust at 1,600 or 2,150 RPM?

Yep, I'm talking about the original three room gas chamber. The one that Wiernik wrote in his book that each room measured 5X5X1.9 meters. That was the gas chamber allegedly used from July 23, 1942 to at least the second week of October in 1942.
Until you know what the CO content was of the exhaust, you do not know how much exhaust was needed to fill the chambers to the point those inside would die and the engine could be switched off.
CO content of a gasoline engine can vary from ~3% to as high as 9%. Here is the definition of LC 0100:
absolute lethal concentration, LC 100.
Lowest concentration of a substance in an environmental medium which kills 100% of test organisms or species under defined conditions. This value is dependent on the number of organisms used in its assessment.
Are you suggesting that the 27 liter L-12 engine could produce enough CO in less than five minutes to kill 1,200 to 1,500 victims? Those are Wiernik's numbers so a more reasonable number of victims per gassing batch would be 400-500. If you think that possible then YOU do the calculations necessary to prove that assertion.
Some witnesses describe the engine was being run for a shorter time than others. It makes sense that they were referring to the old over the new gas chamber.
No, that was Bomba and Wiernik both talking about the same gas chamber. Bomba said that it took only 5-7 minutes for a LC 100 while Wiernik said 25 minutes. The pressure issue remains as does...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Turnagain's "hermetic seal" for the formal section

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:41 am
Nessie wrote:
You have based your claim on the largest engine, putting out the largest volume of exhaust, into the smallest gas chamber dimensions you can find.
Which is larger? A 27 liter engine or a 46.9 liter engine? Does an engine put out more exhaust at 1,600 or 2,150 RPM?

Yep, I'm talking about the original three room gas chamber. The one that Wiernik wrote in his book that each room measured 5X5X1.9 meters. That was the gas chamber allegedly used from July 23, 1942 to at least the second week of October in 1942.
Until you know what the CO content was of the exhaust, you do not know how much exhaust was needed to fill the chambers to the point those inside would die and the engine could be switched off.
CO content of a gasoline engine can vary from ~3% to as high as 9%. Here is the definition of LC 0100:
absolute lethal concentration, LC 100.
Lowest concentration of a substance in an environmental medium which kills 100% of test organisms or species under defined conditions. This value is dependent on the number of organisms used in its assessment.
Are you suggesting that the 27 liter L-12 engine could produce enough CO in less than five minutes to kill 1,200 to 1,500 victims? Those are Wiernik's numbers so a more reasonable number of victims per gassing batch would be 400-500. If you think that possible then YOU do the calculations necessary to prove that assertion.
Some witnesses describe the engine was being run for a shorter time than others. It makes sense that they were referring to the old over the new gas chamber.
No, that was Bomba and Wiernik both talking about the same gas chamber. Bomba said that it took only 5-7 minutes for a LC 100 while Wiernik said 25 minutes.
Is that 5-7 minutes to run the engine and 25 minutes before the chambers were reopened? Are they talking about the same chambers?

You cannot be trusted reporting what witnesses said, since you refuse to link to and directly quote them and you have been caught lying about what witnesses said.
The pressure issue remains as does...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
There is nothing in your post that proves it was impossible to have gassed people with exhaust in sealed chambers, when we do not know numerous parameters or exactly how the chambers were constructed. Another issue you have not considered is how much oxygen is used up just by people breathing and reports that people just suffocated inside the chambers.

It is utter nonsense for you to claim that the Nazis could not work out how to gas people and overcome any pressure issue.

You are just making up doubts as you go along because you do not want to believe the Nazis used gas chambers.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Turnagain's "hermetic seal" for the formal section

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:09 am

It is utter nonsense for you to claim that the Nazis could not work out how to gas people and overcome any pressure issue.

You are just making up doubts as you go along because you do not want to believe the Nazis used gas chambers.
the buildings would explode, End of story


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Re: Turnagain's "hermetic seal" for the formal section

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie didn't answer my questions.
Which is larger? A 27 liter engine or a 46.9 liter engine? Does an engine put out more exhaust at 1,600 or 2,150 RPM?
That's Nessie. When he drops a clanger he simply ignores it and moves on to fresh accusations and "what ifs".

Nessie wrote:
Is that 5-7 minutes to run the engine and 25 minutes before the chambers were reopened? Are they talking about the same chambers?
No, they were referring to how long it took before all of the victims were dead.
Another issue you have not considered is how much oxygen is used up just by people breathing and reports that people just suffocated inside the chambers.
Google is your friend. Here's the first entry.
Discovery Health

The average adult, when resting, inhales and exhales about 7 or 8 liters of air per minute. That totals about 11,000 liters of air per day.

Inhaled air is about 20-percent oxygen. Exhaled air is about 15-percent oxygen. Therefore, about 5-percent of breathed air is consumed in each breath. That air is converted to carbon dioxide. So, as far as how much air is actually used, human beings take in about 550 liters of pure oxygen per day.
Then Nessie writes:
It is utter nonsense for you to claim that the Nazis could not work out how to gas people and overcome any pressure issue.
Nessie is back to his claim that the alleged eyewitnesses didn't know their arse from their elbow and the ever so clever but eeevul Narzis knew how to git 'er done. Nessie still has...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Turnagain's "hermetic seal" for the formal section

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:19 pm
Nessie didn't answer my questions.
Which is larger? A 27 liter engine or a 46.9 liter engine? Does an engine put out more exhaust at 1,600 or 2,150 RPM?
That's Nessie. When he drops a clanger he simply ignores it and moves on to fresh accusations and "what ifs".
Where is your evidence as 46.9 litre engine was used at TII?
Nessie wrote:
Is that 5-7 minutes to run the engine and 25 minutes before the chambers were reopened? Are they talking about the same chambers?
No, they were referring to how long it took before all of the victims were dead.
Link and direct quote please.
Another issue you have not considered is how much oxygen is used up just by people breathing and reports that people just suffocated inside the chambers.
Google is your friend. Here's the first entry.
Discovery Health

The average adult, when resting, inhales and exhales about 7 or 8 liters of air per minute. That totals about 11,000 liters of air per day.

Inhaled air is about 20-percent oxygen. Exhaled air is about 15-percent oxygen. Therefore, about 5-percent of breathed air is consumed in each breath. That air is converted to carbon dioxide. So, as far as how much air is actually used, human beings take in about 550 liters of pure oxygen per day.
Given enough time, people would have suffocated from lack of oxygen.
Then Nessie writes:
It is utter nonsense for you to claim that the Nazis could not work out how to gas people and overcome any pressure issue.
Nessie is back to his claim that the alleged eyewitnesses didn't know their arse from their elbow and the ever so clever but eeevul Narzis knew how to git 'er done. Nessie still has...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
You have no evidence, let alone proof for any of your claims.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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