Strange round Can-Opener Holes in Zyclon-B Cannisters...

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Intenso
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Strange round Can-Opener Holes in Zyclon-B Cannisters...

Post by Intenso »

> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... isters.jpg

What are those like "stamped out" big perfectly round opening holes in those regime poison gas containers? Did the SS have a special can opener?

Cant imagine that guy with the gasmask on the crema roof handling some fancy special regime gas can opener...'how did they open the cans?

> https://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/ ... 07409.html


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blake121666
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Re: Strange round Can-Opener Holes in Zyclon-B Cannisters...

Post by blake121666 »

Intenso wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:33 pm
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... isters.jpg

What are those like "stamped out" big perfectly round opening holes in those regime poison gas containers? Did the SS have a special can opener?

Cant imagine that guy with the gasmask on the crema roof handling some fancy special regime gas can opener...'how did they open the cans?

> https://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/ ... 07409.html
Yes, Degesch had a special can opener for their Zyklon cans. A quick google search doesn't show it. It shows these things:

Image

This is not a Zyklon can opener though - unlike what is claimed. I'm pretty sure Berg has a picture of one somewhere on his site. If you've ever seen a hole saw drill bit, they had a round saw such as those:

Image

And that was attached to a handheld clamping configuration.

So you would put the can in the clamp (the upper part of the clamp being like a hole-saw) and clamp down to punch out the hole on the top of the can.

For whatever reason a google image search is not turning up a true Zyklon can opener - it's showing the above - which I know to be incorrect. I've seen the opener before. I'm pretty sure Berg has a picture of one on his site - although it looks like I am not able to access his site right now.

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Re: Strange round Can-Opener Holes in Zyclon-B Cannisters...

Post by Turnagain »

The containers of Zyklon B with the round openings came from the delousing facility. The delousing chambers had a can opener that opened the container after it was placed in the chamber. Do a search for, "drawings zyklon b delousing chambers". I would post a picture but am trying to use a new computer that has MS 10 for an OS and the search function is totally effed up. Perhaps I can find a work-around but so far, a mystery.

At any rate, the round openings come from an automated can opener that reduced the risk of accidental cyanide poisoning to the operators.

Edit.
Aha! Found one work-around. Try this: http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/7/1/Berg73-94.html Fritz has the details and a drawing of a real gas chamber.

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Re: Strange round Can-Opener Holes in Zyclon-B Cannisters...

Post by blake121666 »

Actually, now that I think of it, I think a hammer was used on the top of the clamp to punch the hole.

Scott would know and will probably post with details and pictures.

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Re: Strange round Can-Opener Holes in Zyclon-B Cannisters...

Post by blake121666 »

Here's a US marine manual from 1930 I think which talks about a "special hammer" to open the Zyklon can:

https://books.google.com/books?id=IAe7A ... le&f=false
Equipment. - (a) A special hammer device for opening containers; ....

Method of use. - Punch an air hole at one end of the can with the spike end of the special hammer and with the saw-tooth hed of the same hammer cut one or more holes in the other end of the can, making each hole with a single blow. ...
I might be confusing things. I'm pretty sure I've come across a clamp-like device to punch a hole in a zyklon can though. Just can't seen to find that info now.

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Re: Strange round Can-Opener Holes in Zyclon-B Cannisters...

Post by Scott »

Howdy all,

There were different gizmos to open the Zyklon-B cans ranging from something that looks like an institutional kitchen can opener to a punch-like device that worked like something for an old-fashioned quart-sized automotive oil can, and had a big boom lever for bearing down.

The enormously-valuable Jean-Claude Pressac book, which is Online at the Mazal website, has some examples of Zyklon-B cans with a big hole punched in the top, and a version of the punching gizmo shown:

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/pressac0015.shtml

Image Image

Image


Below, these photos are from Zyklon Discoids, a 1938 publication from the American Cyanamid Company and reproduced at the Reference section of this forum. This depicts what looks like a standard industrial kitchen can opener:



I have also seen some punch openers in the fumigation literature that have a big lever, and it mounts on a workbench or clamps onto a sawhorse and is used to open a lot of cans in an assembly line for a really big fumigation job or something. Once each can is opened, a rubber or fiber cap is fitted over it (sometimes tapped on with a hammer) so that when one is moving the cans of fumigant granules or discoids in a crate or with a cart, the hydrogen cyanide gas does not readily escape until you are ready for application. I can't remember right now where the source for those pictures are, but if I find those examples, I will post them.

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Re: Strange round Can-Opener Holes in Zyclon-B Cannisters...

Post by Intenso »

Ok so those perfectly round holes would indicate the use of the regime gas containers in a "legitimate" fumigation contraption for clothes where the can was "automatically opened" by the machine and a can with ragged edges that looks like it was opened by hand with a swiss army knife would indicate the use on the roof of a homocidal gas chamber?

I read the link http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/7/1/Berg73-94.html and he does not discuss the fact that body lice dont have lungs and so his "missing air circulation" argument would apply to lice but what concentration of HCN would be needed to kill humans versus lice that ingest the poison thru their skin and not actively thru a lung? 1:100? So the thousands of human lungs would be the "missing air circulation" he is looking for in the homocidal chambers...

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Re: Strange round Can-Opener Holes in Zyclon-B Cannisters...

Post by Turnagain »

Intenso wrote:
So the thousands of human lungs would be the "missing air circulation" he is looking for in the homocidal chambers...
Heated air was blown through the basket of Zyklon B pellets to vastly reduce the outgassing time of the ZB and was re-circulated through the gas chamber. After the ZB had finished outgassing and the lice were dead the chamber was ventilated, the clothing removed and the ZB pellets recovered for recycling.

The actual delousing chamber was very safe and efficient unlike the supposedly purpose built kremas where the chamber was supposedly heated with open tubs of burning coke, the ZB was thrown through the windows and ventilation was by "convection" e.g. the doors were opened.

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Re: Strange round Can-Opener Holes in Zyclon-B Cannisters...

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:18 am
Intenso wrote:
So the thousands of human lungs would be the "missing air circulation" he is looking for in the homocidal chambers...
Heated air was blown through the basket of Zyklon B pellets to vastly reduce the outgassing time of the ZB and was re-circulated through the gas chamber. After the ZB had finished outgassing and the lice were dead the chamber was ventilated, the clothing removed and the ZB pellets recovered for recycling.

The actual delousing chamber was very safe and efficient unlike the supposedly purpose built kremas where the chamber was supposedly heated with open tubs of burning coke, the ZB was thrown through the windows and ventilation was by "convection" e.g. the doors were opened.
The cans in the photos alleged to have been used for homicidal gassing were used in the Kreislauf machine. This was only installed at AB in the disinfestation kammer; that said Zb would have been used in the barracks etc from time to time so some of those can openers in Scotts photos should be evident. Are they on display anywhere.?
Image
Image


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Re: Strange round Can-Opener Holes in Zyclon-B Cannisters...

Post by Scott »

I forgot to mention the obvious regarding the can opener question:

In case it is not clear, the Degesch fumigation cubicles shown in Mr. Berg's essay, and which can still be seen at Dachau today, do NOT require a separate can opener at all because it is already part of the machinery (see no. 4 in the diagram, the "dose opener").

Image

The Zyklon-B dose can (green no. 5 in the above illustration) just fits into the air-flow device, as Turnagain has explained, and when you operate the apparatus from outside (see no. 1 in illustration) a hole is automatically punched (no. 4) through the can and the Zyklon-B granules fall through a funnel (no. 7) into a wire-mesh basket (no. 8) thus allowing warm air from a heater (no. 6) to get blown directly through the Zyklon-B carrier material, which releases the hydrogen cyanide gas VERY rapidly and with minimal product needed in the first place─an exact dose depending on the can size, the label of which shows the exact HCN content.

At the same time, the four-way valve (no. 3) makes it so that the blower (no. 2) between ducts A and B thoroughly mixes and circulates the gas inside the chamber in a closed loop.

After a suitable exposure time at an ideal and uniform gas concentration for the cubicle size, the four-way valve is turned again and the blower is now drawing fresh air from the outside at D into the chamber, and exhausting mixed gas from the chamber through the venting duct at A. When the chamber itself is emptied, the inert Zyklon-B granules are then removed from the wire-mesh basket (no. 8) and discarded or returned to the fumigant supplier for recycling.


Image

Image


At one time I was going to make an animated gif to show the complete process cycle, but hopefully it is straightforward enough here.

Two big takeaways for this kind of fumigation apparatus:

1) Minimal (and exact) dosage of product is used for ideal concentration and homogenous circulation, and ...

2) The complete turnaround time is VERY fast (but the exact time probably varies depending on the nature of the target/vermin to be exterminated and how deeply the nits/eggs or hibernating insects are embedded into the clothing).

There are some diagrams of these exact principles of operation from other sources such as the American Cyanamid Company or Dr. Gerhard Peters.

Once one understand these principles, they are easy to implement contrary to Mr. Leuchter, who thinks that you can only gas bugs and not humans without complicated executions protocols and special methods. You need real technical craft and something more than Rube Goldberg, but don't need to build a fortress, such as would be used for American execution of criminals where Mr. Leuchter has expertise. So, for example, in the technical literature, fumigation chambers can be and are located inside another building with ease. There are four fumigation cubicles in good condition inside the wing of the crematoria/morgue at Dachau which can be seen today (last picture above showing the interior dirty-side entrance door).

It is clear that the Germans knew what they were doing and would not have resorted to ad hoc Rube Goldberg schemes had they in actuality implemented some kind of industrial mass-murder plan. Mr. Leuchter was absolutely correct about that part.

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~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

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