Mass pyres, how did they work?

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Norm
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Norm »

Nessie:
I told you where the evidence for the c850,000 comes from.

Image

I, _?_ (full legal - VERIFIALBE - name),

am so confident that the Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka II "holocausts" happened - as alleged in orthodox historiography,
and that the "eyewitness" testimony for said "holocausts within the holocaust" - constitutes credible evidence,
and that the investigations of said "holocaust" camps in search of empirical evidence - were valid,
that I am willing to bet Greg Gerdes _?_ (choose one):


1: $ .o6 US

2: $ .60 US

3: $ 6.00 US

4: $ 60.00 US

5: $ 600.00 US

6: $ 6,666.66 US


that I can show him the evidence which proves _?_ (list all that apply):


1: With 100% certainty

2: Beyond a shadow of a doubt

3: With the utmost certainty

4: With the same standard of proof espoused by Michael Shermer and the so-called "Skeptics" Society

5: With the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts

6: With the same standard of proof applied in U.S. civil courts

7: With the same standard of proof applied in German Federal Republic courts

8: With the same standard of proof applied at Nuremberg


that at _?_ (choose one):

1: Belzec

2: Sobibor

3: Treblinka II


no less than (choose as many as apply):


_?_ people were dead on arrival at the camp.

_?_ people (internees) actually set foot (dead or alive) within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people were murdered within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people died by means of poison gas within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people died by means of a bullet wound received within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people were buried (as whole corpses) within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ corpses "in a wax-fat transformation" currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people were cremated within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ pounds of human cremains were buried within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ pounds of human remains currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ human teeth currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ bullets currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ pits / ditches alleged by the eyewitnesses to have been dug and utilized as burning / cremation - pits / ditches have actually been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ of the above said verified eyewitnessed burning / cremation - pits / ditches within the boundary of the camp currently contain human remains.

_?_ pits / ditches alleged by the eyewitnesses to have been dug and utilized as mass graves have actually been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ of the above said verified eyewitnessed mass graves within the boundary of the camp currently contain human remains.

_?_ scientific reports detailing the forensic analysis of remains located within the boundary of the camp were completed.


Furthermore, because I want to do all I can to put an end to holocaust denial, I agree to challenge Greg Gerdes to accept this wager no later than _?_/_?_/_?_, and agree that if I refuse to answer a question or get caught lying during our debate - I lose the bet.

As well, I accept and acknowledge that the option of demanding that both sides prove to each other that they have the ways and means to make good on the amount that I chose to bet above is mine - which I _?_ (choose - or - do not choose) to invoke.

Remember:

What kind of self-deceiving coward calls a skeptic of their unsubstantiated allegations a

“denier” - yet is unwilling to bet that they can prove what they so vehemently allege is true?

(One cannot “deny” something that does not exist or that has never been proven to be true.)

http://www.nafcash.com/

Image


What are you waiting for Robessie?

What are you so afraid of?
In some circumstances it can be rationally assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be easily discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of evidence of its occurrence as proof of its non-occurrence.
Such is the case for the fraudulently alleged holocaust mass graves: No graves = No holocaust - simple as that.

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Turnagain
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
Best you go down your local crematorium and inform them that corpses do not burn.
Best you go down your local crematorium and inform them that they've been wasting a lot of fuel. All they have to do is use a small flame to set the body ablaze and wait until it cremates itself.

The fantasies of proven liars isn't evidence. You complain that revisionists only have proof of 3% of the deportees transiting through Treblinka so that isn't evidence of Treblinka being a transit camp. Where is your 3% of the cremains of ~850,000 victims? That's over 100,000 lbs of cremains so where are they? Oh, that's right, the magic Jew barbeque is a bust so there isn't any 100,000 lbs of cremains to be found. Remember...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Nessie
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:43 pm
Nessie wrote:
Best you go down your local crematorium and inform them that corpses do not burn.
Best you go down your local crematorium and inform them that they've been wasting a lot of fuel. All they have to do is use a small flame to set the body ablaze and wait until it cremates itself.
You are exaggerating how little it took to set the bodies on fire.
The fantasies of proven liars isn't evidence.
You have not proved every single witness lied.
You complain that revisionists only have proof of 3% of the deportees transiting through Treblinka so that isn't evidence of Treblinka being a transit camp.
Those people only went as far as the train station inside the camp. They were not showered, had hair cuts or given uniform. They were selected to work and sent to other camps, where they were showered etc, and then fed and accommodated.

Why is there evidence of the transporting, delousing, feeding, clothing and accommodating of that 3% and not the other 97%?
Where is your 3% of the cremains of ~850,000 victims? That's over 100,000 lbs of cremains so where are they? Oh, that's right, the magic Jew barbeque is a bust so there isn't any 100,000 lbs of cremains to be found. Remember...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
There were 2 hectares of cremains found in 1945, down to a depth of 7m, that is 56 Olympic sized swimming pools. In 2011, even when the aim was avoid disturbing cremains, more was found on the surface of the ground and during excavations to reveal one of the gas chambers.

So, every time you claim no cremains, you lie.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
You are exaggerating how little it took to set the bodies on fire.
It takes a hell of a lot more fuel than some twigs or brush to cremate a cadaver let alone 2-3,000 of them.
You have not proved every single witness lied.
So name the witnesses who didn't lie and quote them.
Why is there evidence of the transporting, delousing, feeding, clothing and accommodating of that 3% and not the other 97%?
One deportee did say that he was "sanitized" by the Germans so yes, there is evidence that some of the deportees had showers. As far as the other 97%, none of them were interviewed and only five were recorded in the USHMM archives.
There were 2 hectares of cremains found in 1945, down to a depth of 7m...
Uh-huh and Lukaszkiewicz had a photo protocol and had samples taken from different locations and from various depths in those two hectares and sent them to a lab to be analyzed and the lab reports still exist...Oh, wait a minute! No, he didn't do anything like that. He just said that there was some funny looking dirt that smelled bad. Well, close enough for holyhoax work. Remember...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

Werd
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:15 pm
It is logical when witnesses say many people were killed and the documents show many people were sent to the camp. That is called corroboration, because the two forms of evidence confirm and do not contradict each other.
Nessie hides behind vague language and a lack of numbers. Except when it suits him. The witnesses claim that over 700,000 were murdered there after they were clearly sent there (documented transfers). Okay, where's the remains of about three quarters of one million people?
When those cremains are found over 2 hectares and down to a depth of 7m, then, like the documents, that confirms and corroborates what the witnesses said.
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Nessie wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:29 pm
Werd wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:44 pm
I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE SURFACE AREA WHICH ALLEGEDLY HAD ONE PART THAT WAS 7 METERS DEEP. WHAT IS THE OVERALL VOLUME OF THE CREMATION REMAINS?
I do not have a figure for TII. The likely maximum it could be is 2 hectares by 7m which is 140,000m3, or 56 Olympic sized swimming pools.
In other words, Nessie found one area of 2 hectares and one part of it (he won't say the total volume of this one section) went to a depth of 7 meters. He won't get specific enough and he won't quantify the human remains to prove it's over three quarters one million people. His only argument is

"documents said X amount went into the camp. A few that lived through the war claim the majority were gassed and burned. That's good enough. Even if we can't explain where the wood came from and even if we can't quantify all the remains. We can't find the Jews. A few said the rest died in the camp. That's good enough for me. Not more work necessary."

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Nessie
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:27 pm
Nessie wrote:
You are exaggerating how little it took to set the bodies on fire.
It takes a hell of a lot more fuel than some twigs or brush to cremate a cadaver let alone 2-3,000 of them.
You have not proved every single witness lied.
So name the witnesses who didn't lie and quote them.
Here is the testimony of SS officers who worked at the various AR camps. They did not lie, they are corroborated by the other evidence and they explain how the mass pyres worked;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... speak.html

There is too much to quote everything, just click on the link and read it. Here is an example;

"Heinrich Gley
I was assigned with a big Jewish work brigade to the cremation of the corpses by means of railway lines which served as a grate. About 80-90 Jews then worked under my supervision in three shifts.
The rails were placed on top of big rocks and narrow gauge rails served as a cross-mesh. The cremation surface could take about 200 corpses. First a wood fire was kindled under the iron grate.
During the course of the cremation operation the corpses later served as the only fuel. From time to time the badly twisted rails had to be replaced by new ones."
Why is there evidence of the transporting, delousing, feeding, clothing and accommodating of that 3% and not the other 97%?
One deportee did say that he was "sanitized" by the Germans so yes, there is evidence that some of the deportees had showers.
Link to those witnesses please. I do not believe there is anyone who said they were part of a group who showered at TII and then left.
As far as the other 97%, none of them were interviewed and only five were recorded in the USHMM archives.
Link please, you need to show your evidence, I do not trust your claims. It is rather odd that only those who were selected to work gave interviews and none of the c850,000 who were not selected gave an interview.

You are stretching credibility beyond break point, claiming that so many people left the camp without leaving any evidence.
There were 2 hectares of cremains found in 1945, down to a depth of 7m...
Uh-huh and Lukaszkiewicz had a photo protocol and had samples taken from different locations and from various depths in those two hectares and sent them to a lab to be analyzed and the lab reports still exist...Oh, wait a minute! No, he didn't do anything like that. He just said that there was some funny looking dirt that smelled bad. Well, close enough for holyhoax work. Remember...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
Every time you quote evidence of cremains and then declare no cremains, you show yourself to be a dishonest liar. You are the ONLY denier who claims that there are no cremains at TII at all. The rest of deniers accept that cremains are present. There is too much evidence not to.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:54 am
Every time you quote evidence of cremains and then declare no cremains, you show yourself to be a dishonest liar. You are the ONLY denier who claims that there are no cremains at TII at all. The rest of deniers accept that cremains are present. There is too much evidence not to.
It would seem that this poster has not learned from its stay in Siberia, now abusing opponents. Opponent is claiming there is no evidence of mass cremains as in the narrative, which is off topic btw; this topic is how mass pyres worked not where the products of combustion went. 卐

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Nessie
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:42 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:15 pm
It is logical when witnesses say many people were killed and the documents show many people were sent to the camp. That is called corroboration, because the two forms of evidence confirm and do not contradict each other.
Nessie hides behind vague language and a lack of numbers. Except when it suits him. The witnesses claim that over 700,000 were murdered there after they were clearly sent there (documented transfers). Okay, where's the remains of about three quarters of one million people?
Buried in the ground at the camp site.

Where do you say they ended up by the time the camp closed in 1943?
When those cremains are found over 2 hectares and down to a depth of 7m, then, like the documents, that confirms and corroborates what the witnesses said.
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Nessie wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:29 pm
Werd wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:44 pm
I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE SURFACE AREA WHICH ALLEGEDLY HAD ONE PART THAT WAS 7 METERS DEEP. WHAT IS THE OVERALL VOLUME OF THE CREMATION REMAINS?
I do not have a figure for TII. The likely maximum it could be is 2 hectares by 7m which is 140,000m3, or 56 Olympic sized swimming pools.
In other words, Nessie found one area of 2 hectares and one part of it (he won't say the total volume of this one section) went to a depth of 7 meters. He won't get specific enough and he won't quantify the human remains to prove it's over three quarters one million people.
Two hectares, up to 7m deep, which is 140,000m3 or 56 Olympic sized swimming pools is specific. That is a volume that could easily have contained mass graves to have buried c700,000 people and the cremated remains of c850,000 when the graves were exhumed and those killed went striaght to the pyres.
His only argument is

"documents said X amount went into the camp. A few that lived through the war claim the majority were gassed and burned. That's good enough. Even if we can't explain where the wood came from and even if we can't quantify all the remains. We can't find the Jews. A few said the rest died in the camp. That's good enough for me. Not more work necessary."
You have yet again lied about my argument by missing parts of it out. My actual argument is;

"documents said X amount went into the camp. All of those who worked at the camp and that lived through the war claim the majority were gassed and burned. That's not good enough. There is corroboration from physical evidence found at the camp of cremated remains, Jewish property from countries around Europe and the remains of a building that matches witness descriptions of one of the gas chambers. Even if we can't explain where the wood came from and even if we can't quantify all the remains. We can't find the Jews, which means we can rule out the only alternative of they left the camp. All of the witnesses said the rest died in the camp. Multiple sources of corroborating evidence is good enough for me. More work is necessary by deneirs who need to show their evidence of mass daily transports back out the camp and to explain why anyone should believe what they cannot evidence."

You cannot cope with my actual argument, which is why you dishonestly edit it and misrepresent it.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:06 am
Two hectares, up to 7m deep, which is 140,000m3 or 56 Olympic sized swimming pools is specific. That is a volume that could easily have contained mass graves to have buried c700,000 people and the cremated remains of c850,000 when the graves were exhumed and those killed went striaght to the pyres.
That volume is correct depending on the parameter and wood used. The argument is now on mass pyre function not the volume of mass graves to bury that volume. To be Frank if I was going to do mass murder on that scale with a quarry nearby I would dump the ashes in the quarry. 卐. Even schwein do not shit in their own back yard Nessie. Perhaps the ashes were dumped at TI.

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Turnagain
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Turnagain »

From Heinrich Gley:
During the course of the cremation operation the corpses later served as the only fuel.
Oh hell yes, Gley wasn't coerced to claim the impossible. None of the German's so-called testimony describes in any detail the alleged gas chambers. One claimed that it would hold possibly 200 people. Wiernik claimed 1,200 could fit in the original gas chamber. Schluch claimed that the cadavers were blue. On and on with the hapless Germans giving their scripted tales and Nessie demands that we believe every word of it.

At least eleven (11) Jews declared the gas chambers to be hermetically sealed with six (6) of them claiming that the chambers also functioned as vacuum chambers. Not one German contradicted those alleged witnesses. Not one but Nessie proudly trots out the hapless Germans of proof of what? That the Jews didn't claim that the hermetically sealed gas chambers didn't also function as vacuum chambers? Sell your smoke and mirrors down the street, Nessie.

Nessie wrote:
Every time you quote evidence of cremains and then declare no cremains, you show yourself to be a dishonest liar. You are the ONLY denier who claims that there are no cremains at TII at all.
No, you lying little pissant, I DON'T deny that there may be cremains at Treblinka. What I've said is there's no certified laboratory proof of any cremains at Treblinka. There isn't any proof of cremains at any of the AR camps. Haimi sent one sample for lab analysis but came up empty for human cremains. Since then, nada. What don't you understand about that?

The political hack described the earth as dark and granular and smelled bad. Wow, the earth looked funny and stank and you demand that we believe that the political hack found 2 hectares of cremains. You have proof of jack squat so sell your smoke, mirrors, horse frocky and bullshit down the street.

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