Mass pyres, how did they work?

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Turnagain
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
They will burn if subjected to 1000 degrees of heat, fat is very combustible and makes up 20-30% of bodies.
Nessie claims that the ghetto Jews were all overweight and verging on obesity. Here's a chart pulled from Wiki. I posted a different chart previously but there's lots of other sites that all agree that 30% body fat even for women is either rated as "obese" or "overweight". Here's the Wiki chart.
The table below from the American Council on Exercise shows how average percentages differ according to the specified groups and categories:[3]
Description Women Men
Essential fat 10–14% 3–5%
Athletes 14–21% 6–14%
Fitness 21–25% 14–18%
Average 25–32% 18–25%
Obese 32%+ 25%+

So much for Nessie's 30% body fat. Well, moving on, we then have enough wood under the cremation grate to sustain 1000 degree heat for hours. Who knew that could be accomplished with some twigs or brush? Not to worry, Nessie has just invented trainloads of seasoned wood being shipped into Treblinka for that very purpose. Just because there aren't any records or any witnesses to that doesn't mean that it didn't happen. It's not as if we're talking about Jews getting transported out of Treblinka. Actually, there is testimony and records of Jews being transported from Treblinka, sometimes en masse but that doesn't count since they were just "selected for work"...or somepin'. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.


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Nessie
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:44 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:51 am

I did quantify what has been found, at least 2 hectares of buried cremated remains was identified in 1945 and even in 2011, walkover surveys and excavations that were trying to avoid disturbing cremains, found more cremains.
I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE SURFACE AREA WHICH ALLEGEDLY HAD ONE PART THAT WAS 7 METERS DEEP. WHAT IS THE OVERALL VOLUME OF THE CREMATION REMAINS?
I do not have a figure for TII. The likely maximum it could be is 2 hectares by 7m which is 140,000m3, or 56 Olympic sized swimming pools.

It is impossible for 100,000s of people to have left the AR camps, without leaving any evidence or anyone noticing.
That's exactly what's under debate regarding Sobibor. Hold on while I get my reference that I posted years ago multiple times THAT YOU IGNORED AND ARE APPARENTLY NOW PRETENDING TO NOT REMEMBER!
"Sobibor." Mattogno, Graf, Kues.

Finally we come to the “evidence” that “no-one ever came out alive.” The problem of this argument becomes evident by even a cursory glance at the various maps of Sobibór. The most “correct” map,239drawn by Bill Rutherford in 2002 and partially based on air photos, shows that the northern, eastern, and western borders of the vaguely trapezoidal camp III area hardly could have been observed from other parts of the camp. This means that deloused deportees could have left camp III unnoticed by inmates in camp I and II. Interestingly, the Rutherford map shows a sort of passage leading from the northeast corner of camp III through the forest in the general direction of the main railroad. 240

239
Online: http://www.deathcamps.org/sobibor/pic/bmap21.jpg

240
It should be pointed out here that the trains bound for the east may have departed from the main railroad, rather than the sidespur leading into the camp. According to Jan Piwonski, who worked at the Sobibór station, the Chelm-Wlodawa line saw little traffic, and thus such embarkations were feasible; Jan Piwonski, op.cit (note 221). The 1942 timetable of the railways in the General Government shows that there were four trains per day on this line, in each direction; cf. Kurzbuch Polen 1942 (Generalgouvernment), Verlag Josef Otto Slezak, Vienna 1984, p. 118.
Next!
Name and quote a witness who was taken to camp III at Sobibor, processed and then sent onwards to another camp.

Then do the same for TII, Belzec and Chelmno.
Witnesses who are corroborated by the physical evidence of cremated remains consistent with cremations, ground disturbances consistent with graves, the remains of a building that matches the description of one of the gas chambers and documents showing mass arrivals.
You already admitted cremation remains that have not been fully quantified in and of themselves, DON'T PROVE GAS CHAMBERS. CREMATION REMAINS ARE CONSISTENT WITH A REVISIONIST HYPOTHESIS OF HEALTH MEASURES SO STOP ACTING LIKE THIS PROVES ANYTHING. IF YOU WANT GAS CHAMBERS, FIND ME THE GAS CHAMBERS.

You have not shown me any evidence that there is only a small amount of cremains at the camp.
Don't shift the burden of proof. WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE OF CREMATION REMAINS OF 700,000 CORPSES?
The physical evidence that there are cremains at TII is from the physical examinations of the camp. The evidence of c850,000 killed is from the documents and witnesses.

Now, show me your witness, physical and documentary evidence for the revisionist hypothesis of health measures.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Werd »

2 - mass departures are not evidenced and could not have happened without leaving any evidence.
There Nessie goes again, arguing exactly like I accuse him of but he denies.

"I can't find the Jews. Therefore..."
Nessie wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:20 pm
1 - gassings are evidenced by mutiple witnesses
No they're not. Flashback:
from witnesses
Who were all too eager to tell us about flammable blood and bodies burning in pits without wood. Or about the false colours of freshly gassed corpses. But somehow they couldn't tell us how all that wood came in and where it came from.
Nessie wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:20 pm
That is where you cherry pick only some of what some of the witnesses said.
Nessie doesn't like it when we show witnesses lying because then we are allowed to wonder what else they are lying about. And that's not good for Nessie...:lol:
You ignore the majority of the witnesses (especially the Nazis) and what they said.
Post war testimony in a hostile political and court environment where it was pointless to protest your innocence or claim you never saw any gas chambers, and where nobody was ever punished for anti German perjury is not relevant.
Proof that c850,000 were sent to the camp and proof of an area of cremains that extends to over 2 hectares and up to 7m deep, is very good corroborative evidence of witness claims of mass pyres of at least 700,000 corpses.
See what Nessie just did? previously he said one spot in this square area of hectares went as deep as 7 meters but he didn't give the size. NOW he is trying to make it seem like two hectares on the surface, MULTIPLIED by 7 meters gives us a VERY LARGE OVERALL VOLUME whereby the remains of 700,000 corpses were found. Again, that is a bait and switch. Nessie didn't even say before or demonstrate the VOLUME of this one spot that went to a depth of seven meters. Nessie just throws out numbers without proper context and without full disclosure about volume.
WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE OF CREMATION REMAINS OF 700,000 CORPSES?
The physical evidence that there are cremains at TII is from the physical examinations of the camp.
Once again, an UNQUANTIFIED SERIES OF CREMATION REMAINS IS CONSISTENT WITH A REVISIONIST HYPOTHESIS. SINCE YOU CAN'T USE THIS AS "EVIDENCE" YOU DON'T HAVE AS MANY "ARGUMENTS" AS YOU THINK YOU DO!!! You only have missing Jews!
The evidence of c850,000 killed is from the documents and witnesses.
And we're back to the witnesses again, many of whom lied about various things. Again, Nessie doesn't like acknowledging it. Once his witnesses are fair game and exposed as liars, it becomes harder and harder for him to sell that bridge.

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Nessie
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:27 pm
Nessie wrote:
They will burn if subjected to 1000 degrees of heat, fat is very combustible and makes up 20-30% of bodies.
Nessie claims that the ghetto Jews were all overweight and verging on obesity. Here's a chart pulled from Wiki. I posted a different chart previously but there's lots of other sites that all agree that 30% body fat even for women is either rated as "obese" or "overweight". Here's the Wiki chart.
The table below from the American Council on Exercise shows how average percentages differ according to the specified groups and categories:[3]
Description Women Men
Essential fat 10–14% 3–5%
Athletes 14–21% 6–14%
Fitness 21–25% 14–18%
Average 25–32% 18–25%
Obese 32%+ 25%+

So much for Nessie's 30% body fat.
I had said 20-30%. Not just 30%.
Well, moving on, we then have enough wood under the cremation grate to sustain 1000 degree heat for hours. Who knew that could be accomplished with some twigs or brush? Not to worry, Nessie has just invented trainloads of seasoned wood being shipped into Treblinka for that very purpose. Just because there aren't any records or any witnesses to that doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
Correct. We do not know details about wood transports to TII for the pyres, but that does not mean there were none.
It's not as if we're talking about Jews getting transported out of Treblinka. Actually, there is testimony and records of Jews being transported from Treblinka, sometimes en masse but that doesn't count since they were just "selected for work"...or somepin'. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
You have admitted that the selected for work transports was 25,000 at most, which is 3% of c850,000. Odd how we can find evidence for 3% of the transports which were specifically for people selected to work at the other camps, but not the other 97% who were not selected to work and you claim were transported to other camps. No wonder you dodge like mad.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
The physical evidence that there are cremains at TII is from the physical examinations of the camp. The evidence of c850,000 killed is from the documents and witnesses.
Your witnesses are Lukaszkiewicz the communist political hack and CS-C's "discovery" of five little bone shards. How is that documented, Nessie?

That plus the fact that human corpses aren't combustible. Are you sticking to your claim that hundreds of tons of seasoned firewood was shipped into Treblinka because there's no records and nobody saw those trains which means that it COULDA' happened and if it COULDA' happened then it DID happen?

As both Norm and I say...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

Turnagain
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
You have admitted that the selected for work transports was 25,000 at most, which is 3% of c850,000. Odd how we can find evidence for 3% of the transports which were specifically for people selected to work at the other camps, but not the other 97% who were not selected to work and you claim were transported to other camps.
You have "admitted" that some Jews DID transit through Treblinka. You claim that they were all just "selected to work". Really? The guy who left Treblinka on the same train that he arrived on said nothing about being "selected for work". Apparently he and the people he arrived with just stood around with their thumb up their bums waiting for the train to be cleaned. As he said, looking at the sky and listening to the birds. How was he and his fellow deportees "selected for work"?

Then we have the trainload of men, women and children who left Treblinka. How were they "selected for work"? Let's not forget the trainload of women, either. Who said that they were "selected for work"? As usual, you don't mention the deportees spoken of in the USHMM document. I've never claimed that the limited number of deportees who transited through Treblinka were proof that Treblinka was a transit camp. However, they are damn good evidence that was the case.

It's odd how you claim that 3% of the deportees leaving Treblinka is irrelevant but you nor anyone else can produce 3% of the alleged cremains at the AR camps. The average weight of cremains for mixed cremations would be 4-5 lbs of cremains. At 4-5 lbs, the net weight of cremains at Treblinka would be 3,400,000 to 4,250,000 lbs of cremains. How about showing us 3% of those cremains, Nessie? That would be a minimum of a little over 100,000 lbs of cremains. Right, like that's going to happen. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.

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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:29 pm
The evidence of c850,000 killed is from the documents and witnesses.
And Nessie continues to lie. No surprise. I've already explained documents about transfers ONLY TELL US who went into the camp. NOTHING MORE. NOTHING LESS. To deny this is to be dishonest. But that's what trolls like him are all about.
Nessie wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:29 pm
Werd wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:44 pm
WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE OF CREMATION REMAINS OF 700,000 CORPSES?
Now, show me your witness, physical and documentary evidence for the revisionist hypothesis of health measures.
See that? He answers my request with another request. :roll:
If he could show the remains of 700,000 corpses, he would. He won't. Because he can't. All he has are eyewitnesses who clearly choose to tell us lies about flammable blood, fake colours of freshly gassed bodies, but who are strangely silent on the amount of wood needed and where it came from. :lol:

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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:43 pm
Correct. We do not know details about wood transports to TII for the pyres, but that does not mean there were none.
Good now using this logic we do not know the details about all the Jude transports from TII, but that does not mean there were none.
I think that one can quickly see that this form of discussion goes nowhere to discuss how mass pyres functioned unless the details or lack of has something to do with the technology. :|


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Nessie
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:56 pm
Nessie wrote:
The physical evidence that there are cremains at TII is from the physical examinations of the camp. The evidence of c850,000 killed is from the documents and witnesses.
Your witnesses are Lukaszkiewicz the communist political hack and CS-C's "discovery" of five little bone shards. How is that documented, Nessie?
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3808#p151220

Physical evidence;

The 1945 Polish examination of TII under Judge Lukaszkiewicz;

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/4.html

The 2011 Caroline Sturdy-Colls thesis/dissertation on the examination of TII;

https://etheses.bham.ac.uk/id/eprint/35 ... s12PhD.pdf

Summary of works at Treblinka, both camps, by staff from Staffs University (including C S-C);

http://blogs.staffs.ac.uk/archaeology/p ... treblinka/
https://blogs.staffs.ac.uk/archaeology/ ... published/
That plus the fact that human corpses aren't combustible.
They are if you apply 1000 degrees of heat to them and the 20-30% fat content will act as a fuel.
Are you sticking to your claim that hundreds of tons of seasoned firewood was shipped into Treblinka because there's no records and nobody saw those trains which means that it COULDA' happened and if it COULDA' happened then it DID happen?

As both Norm and I say...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
They are all evidenced, why should i believe what you cannot evidence?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:15 am
why should i believe what you cannot evidence?
Who cares what you believe, the thread is about mass pyres and you presented everything except the information on the topic.


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