Mass pyres, how did they work?

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Werd
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:57 am
When cremated remains are found spread over 2 hectares and we know that c850,000 arrived at the camp and there is no evidence they all left, I can use the words mass and large all I want.
Like I just said that Nessie said...

I can't find the Jews, therefore...

:roll:
When cremated remains are found spread over 2 hectares
And we're back to this again:
Werd wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:51 pm
But in 1945 over 2 hecatres of cremated remains were found and in one place excavations went down 7m.
The sizes of pits tell us nothing about what the quantity of cremains are. Surface area only encompasses two aspects of three dimensions. I like how you throw out one figure to imply that cremation remains were found 7 meters deep in one spot. But you don't tell us the surface area, or overall volume of this one spot. You just throw out numbers that look good and sound good superficially. That's not doing a very good job.
Even in 2011, a walk over survey found cremated remains on the surface and excavations that were trying to avoid disturbing remains still found them. That is physical evidence of a large amount of cremains at the camp.
Define large, like ballpark like 600,000 or 700,000. And then explain why we should believe the remains of 700,000 are there. And stop using words like "mass" and "large amount" because that is circular logic and the very thing you are trying to prove - are there the cremated remains of 600,000 or 700,000 there. You can't just assume it and define it into existence with sneaky workplay like theists do with an ontological argument. I've already told you this.
Here is how he replied next page:
That area of cremains is consistent with large numbers of bodies being burned.
He just speaks it into existence without actually quantifying the cremation remains. Apparently it never occurred to him that an amount NOT consistent with bodies burned to the tune of 700,000 could be spread out over a large area. :lol: A large area doesn't necessarily equal large amount to the tune of 700,000. That's just another thing he takes for granted and demands that we just let him get away with it. He continued:
Records show c850,000 people went to TII.
Actually 700,000.
The evidence shows only a few thousand were selected to work or escaped,
Doesn't rule out transfers. We've been over this with Sobibor. Once I find the citation I will put it up again; it's about a second line next to the camp where Jews easily could have been transferred out of with nobody really noticing.
which leaves still c850,000 as the number who were gassed, buried and then cremated.
According ONLY to witnesses. Oh wait, you claim there are enough cremation remains to match up with 700,000. Well no there isn't as I've just shown since you haven't quantified anything and remains being spread over a large area doesn't mean large amount to the tune of 700,000. I've just demonstrated your non sequitor so we don't need to visit it again.
There is corroborating evidence of those gassings, burials and cremations.
Since documents don't tell us anything, and witnesses aren't enough, and you're stretching the limits of credibility about hectares and cremation remains, this is all you have: missing Jews.
Nessie wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:57 am
When cremated remains are found spread over 2 hectares and we know that c850,000 arrived at the camp and there is no evidence they all left, I can use the words mass and large all I want.
Like I just said that Nessie said...

I can't find the Jews, therefore...

We're having a really good discussion about the wood requirements for these Treblinka pyres over here in another topic. Wanna try to actually contribute something instead of saying "hectares, missing Jews and corroboration" ? I mean you totally failed in THIS topic about the wood as I showed as recently as page 59 inside here, but as far back as page 31 here in this topic? Followed of course by your utter failure that I exposed on page 32. When pushed further, all you had on page 34 was argument from ignorance fallacy!
Nessie wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:43 am
Just because we do not know where the wood came from and it does not appear to have been from the felling of trees around the camp, does not therefore mean no wood was available at all to be used in the pyres.
Witnesses can say anything and it must have happened because, we found some non-quantified cremation remains and we found no Jews.
Nessie wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:57 am
When cremated remains are found spread over 2 hectares and we know that c850,000 arrived at the camp and there is no evidence they all left, I can use the words mass and large all I want.
Like I just said that Nessie said...

I can't find the Jews, therefore...

:roll:

You're such a loser, Nessie!

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Nessie
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:40 pm
Nessie wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:57 am
When cremated remains are found spread over 2 hectares and we know that c850,000 arrived at the camp and there is no evidence they all left, I can use the words mass and large all I want.
Like I just said that Nessie said...

I can't find the Jews, therefore...

:roll:

....
You cannot find any evidence of daily mass departures from the AR camps, therefore;

1 - it is reasonable to conclude that they did not leave the camp, since c850,000 being transported back out of TII to other places would have left evidence of it happening.

2 - the evidence that they were gassed, buried and cremated is the only alternative that is evidenced. When there is evidence for only one alternative, that is what happened. It would be idiotic to disbelieve what is evidenced and believe in an alternative that is not evidenced.

There is evidence of cremations, from witnesses and physical evidence found at the camp. There is no evidence of mass daily departures from the camp.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:38 am
You cannot find any evidence of daily mass departures from the AR camps, therefore;

1 - it is reasonable to conclude that they did not leave the camp, since c850,000 being transported back out of TII to other places would have left evidence of it happening.

2 - the evidence that they were gassed, buried and cremated is the only alternative that is evidenced. When there is evidence for only one alternative, that is what happened. It would be idiotic to disbelieve what is evidenced and believe in an alternative that is not evidenced.

There is evidence of cremations, from witnesses and physical evidence found at the camp. There is no evidence of mass daily departures from the camp.
This thread is about mass pyres and how they worked NOT about anything else. If there were pyres they could have been from victims of any tragedy. You are off topic.

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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:40 pm
....
That area of cremains is consistent with large numbers of bodies being burned.
He just speaks it into existence without actually quantifying the cremation remains. Apparently it never occurred to him that an amount NOT consistent with bodies burned to the tune of 700,000 could be spread out over a large area. :lol: A large area doesn't necessarily equal large amount to the tune of 700,000.
I did quantify what has been found, at least 2 hectares of buried cremated remains was identified in 1945 and even in 2011, walkover surveys and excavations that were trying to avoid disturbing cremains, found more cremains.
That's just another thing he takes for granted and demands that we just let him get away with it. He continued:
Records show c850,000 people went to TII.
Actually 700,000.
Actually 713,555 by the end of 1942 and transports to the camp continued until August 1943. Hence c850,000.
The evidence shows only a few thousand were selected to work or escaped,
Doesn't rule out transfers. We've been over this with Sobibor. Once I find the citation I will put it up again; it's about a second line next to the camp where Jews easily could have been transferred out of with nobody really noticing.
It is impossible for 100,000s of people to have left the AR camps, without leaving any evidence or anyone noticing. What about the people themselves and those who drove and guarded the trains? They would notice mass transports. What about the places where those mass transports arrived? How would no one there notice mass arrivals from TII?
which leaves still c850,000 as the number who were gassed, buried and then cremated.
According ONLY to witnesses.
Witnesses who are corroborated by the physical evidence of cremated remains consistent with cremations, ground disturbances consistent with graves, the remains of a building that matches the description of one of the gas chambers and documents showing mass arrivals.
Oh wait, you claim there are enough cremation remains to match up with 700,000. Well no there isn't as I've just shown since you haven't quantified anything and remains being spread over a large area doesn't mean large amount to the tune of 700,000. I've just demonstrated your non sequitor so we don't need to visit it again.
You have not shown me any evidence that there is only a small amount of cremains at the camp. You backed off from your claim of limited cremations for natural causes, because you cannot evidence it.

What was found in 1945 and 2011 is more suggestive of a large amount, than a small amount of cremains.
There is corroborating evidence of those gassings, burials and cremations.
Since documents don't tell us anything, and witnesses aren't enough, and you're stretching the limits of credibility about hectares and cremation remains, this is all you have: missing Jews.
No, what I have is corroborating evidence from all the witnesses who were at the camp, the physical evidence from the camp and the documents relating to the camp.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:51 am
I did quantify what has been found, at least 2 hectares of buried cremated remains was identified in 1945 and even in 2011, walkover surveys and excavations that were trying to avoid disturbing cremains, found more cremains.
Explain how these cremains are related to how the mass pyres worked please.
Actually 713,555 by the end of 1942 and transports to the camp continued until August 1943. Hence c850,000.
What has this got to do with the topic?
It is impossible for 100,000s of people to have left the AR camps, without leaving any evidence or anyone noticing. What about the people themselves and those who drove and guarded the trains? They would notice mass transports. What about the places where those mass transports arrived? How would no one there notice mass arrivals from TII?
What has this got to do with how mass pyres functioned?
Witnesses who are corroborated by the physical evidence of cremated remains consistent with cremations, ground disturbances consistent with graves, the remains of a building that matches the description of one of the gas chambers and documents showing mass arrivals.
What has this got to do with how mass pyres functioned.?
You have not shown me any evidence that there is only a small amount of cremains at the camp. You backed off from your claim of limited cremations for natural causes, because you cannot evidence it.
Now we are back to pyres and cremains, but nothing on the thread topic or intention.
What was found in 1945 and 2011 is more suggestive of a large amount, than a small amount of cremains.
No, what I have is corroborating evidence from all the witnesses who were at the camp, the physical evidence from the camp and the documents relating to the camp.
This thread could be about corroborating evidence if it was to do with pyres and how they worked. You need to establish the quantity of cremains, with evidence of there existence with how efficient the pyres were also with evidence.

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Turnagain
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Turnagain »

You aren't going to get a straight answer out of Nessie, Hunt. The magic Jew barbeque is a bust. There isn't any way that it could have functioned as claimed so Nessie's only ploy is to try to derail the thread off on his sidetrack of, "Where did they goooo?". The magic Jew barbeque is the best the hoaxers could come up with to explain how ~850,000 cadavers were cremated with no fuel. It didn't happen and the hoaxers are stuck with it.

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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Nessie »

According to Werd there is insufficient evidence to claim mass cremated remains at TII.

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/4.html

The site at TII, described in 1946;

"But the physical evidence was not limited to objects. As we moved farther into the grounds, we walked over a field which was sown with human bones.
The bombs had revealed the contents of the desecrated soil. Leg bones, ribs, pieces of the spine, skulls big and small, short and long, round and flat.
Skulls!...
If only we could get an ethnologist to come here!
He could have made the most accurate anthropological measurements relating to the racial features of the Jewish people. [...]
We were now standing where the gas chambers had been, the huge mass graves and the pyres. In some places, the smell of death was still mingled with the odor of fire. Indeed, here and there we could see little piles of white ashes along with blackened bones, heaps of soot. All this had been buried several meters deep in the soil, mixed with sand and covered with more sand, but the explosions had brought it to the surface again. In one place the simultaneous explosion of several bombs had created a huge crater. Deep down in the hole, some outlines could be dimly seen through the fog.
'Those aren't just bones,' explained the District Attorney. 'There are still pieces of half-rotted corpses lying there, bunches of intestines.'"

The 1945 Polish site examination at the camp;

"The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters - its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains - was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition.[[208]] The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped here."

"In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay. "
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:13 am
You aren't going to get a straight answer out of Nessie, Hunt. The magic Jew barbeque is a bust. There isn't any way that it could have functioned as claimed so Nessie's only ploy is to try to derail the thread off on his sidetrack of, "Where did they goooo?". The magic Jew barbeque is the best the hoaxers could come up with to explain how ~850,000 cadavers were cremated with no fuel. It didn't happen and the hoaxers are stuck with it.
Fire pits work. Wood burns at over 1000 degrees. Human fat is flammable and bodies are 20-30% fat. Petrol was also reported to have been used to start the pyres.

Stop lying that the bodies were "cremated with no fuel".
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:13 am
You aren't going to get a straight answer out of Nessie, Hunt. The magic Jew barbeque is a bust. There isn't any way that it could have functioned as claimed so Nessie's only ploy is to try to derail the thread off on his sidetrack of, "Where did they goooo?". The magic Jew barbeque is the best the hoaxers could come up with to explain how ~850,000 cadavers were cremated with no fuel. It didn't happen and the hoaxers are stuck with it.
This is an interesting topic but it is always derailing. There are real pyres and probably one burning right now on the Ganges; they perform them everywhere; well almost.
What I am sick to death of it is, when we have a good topic, which Blake really has contributed to with his air burners, curtain etc, Nessie dismisses this glibly regurgitating its witnesses again; the topic came about due to the fact that there were real issues with the witnesses. It was decided to look at the feasibility of pyres in real life, but it brings up the witnesses again as though what they saw was fact; it simply was not, whether they are mistaken or lying. The idea of this thread is to discuss if cadavers could burn without fuel. Conclusion is they could not. To be frank, nessie cannot get past the witness stage; it thinks those liars are telling the truth.
I am researching depression among Jude males, which is significantly higher than all other religious ethnic backgrounds or any other group. It is bad enough when they are not incarcerated, but inside a camp there are explosive issues of depression and other mental illness; I think this may also be a another major factor in this holohoax.

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Re: Mass pyres, how did they work?

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:19 am
Fire pits work. Wood burns at over 1000 degrees. Human fat is flammable and bodies are 20-30% fat. Petrol was also reported to have been used to start the pyres.

Stop lying that the bodies were "cremated with no fuel".
Now der Jude has changed from the Floss fire grill 1.5 metres above the ground to a "fire pit"; this is quite a change. This one cannot even get is own story straight or information consistent. Its been explained clearly that fat alone cannot cremate a body and yet this one keeps bringing it up. Has simply no knowledge of stoichiometry or the energy of chemical reactions.
we walked over a field which was sown with human bones.
The Poles who said this were Soviets. They say this and in another breath declare the Germans hid their crime so well as not to leave a trace. Your post is somewhat inconsistent in content. Did they leave a trace or not, if so, then why was it declared no traces were left.

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