Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

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Nessie
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Nessie » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:02 am

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:37 pm
Nessie wrote:
Lie, it leaves me with evidence that you disagree with, not no evidence.
Yep, your so-called evidence has been debunked. You may now stamp your feet and shriek, "Evidence, I have evidence"!

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito End of story.
I have tested your so called debunking and it fails as it is really just a series of fallacious arguments. To truly debunk the witnesses you need evidence, such as GPR of the camp, forensic testing of the earth, witnesses who worked there who say no gassings happened or documents showing mass transports back out of the camp.

You keep on dodging, so I will keep on reminding you that you are unable to explain why anyone should believe what you cannot evidence, over what is evidenced.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Turnagain » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:55 am

Nessie wrote:
It was not empty, obviously, so what was the volume, plus the pipes, minus the people?
A room measuring 5X5X1.9 meters has a volume of 47.5 m^3. There were three (3) such rooms in the original gas chamber for a total of 142.5 m^3. That's without any occupants. The volume of the exhaust piping is negligible. Assume a pipe 6 inches in diameter and 120 feet long for delivering the exhaust to the individual chambers. That would have a volume of less than 1 m^3 (.67 m^3). Filling the chambers with people will obviously reduce the volume available for the exhaust.

Nessie is obviously nitpicking in an attempt to obfuscate. Nessie obviously has his head up his arse.
You also need to accept that you are assuming each chamber only had an inlet pipe and there was no pressure release system, which could have been as simple as an outflow pipe at the point furthest from the engine, which would not necessarily be known to any witness.
No, I'm assuming nothing. I'm simply taking the statements by the eyewitnesses as given and showing how ridiculous they are. Name the witness who claimed that the gas chamber had a "pressure release system" or an "outflow pipe" and quote them. Sell your COULDA' bullshit down the street.
Back pressure would stall the engine long before that happened. Your argument from incredulity that the building would collapse is a fallacy.
How amusing. Nessie tries to use my own research to "prove" my calculations a "fallacy". The mfg. recommendation of no more than 25 kPa of back pressure on the exhaust was for diesel engines similar to the Kharkiv V-2 diesel engine. What is the limit in kPa of back pressure recommended by mfg. of large gasoline engines, Nessie? At any rate, it would be a race between the engine stalling and the building collapsing. At least you admit that the IC engine/hermetically sealed gas chamber is a fantasy.
Your argument from incredulity regarding the M&B dragline, which is a fallacy, fails because none of the witnesses described such an excavator.
So how did those 10X25X50 meter or larger graves get excavated and the ex stockpiled? Those graves didn't dig themselves so how did they get excavated and where are they? If they ever did exist then they still do. Why can't they be definitely located? CS-C said that she would return to Treblinka and find the precise location of those graves so she must believe that's possible. Why did Arad, ARC, CS-C et al. say that the M&H draglines from T-1 dug the graves?
You constantly criticise me for pointing out witness evidence is often faulty, unreliable and contains exaggerations and mistakes.
Impeachable in that they're lying. You try to excuse their lies as simply being (heh-heh) little "mistakes". There weren't any gas chambers at Treblinka nor were there any giant mass graves. The magic Jew barbeque is just another fantasy. Get over it.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Turnagain » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:59 am

Nessie wrote:
I have tested your so called debunking and it fails as it is really just a series of fallacious arguments.
No, you haven't. Now it's your turn to stamp your feet and shriek, "Have too, have too".

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Nessie » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:58 am

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:55 am
Nessie wrote:
It was not empty, obviously, so what was the volume, plus the pipes, minus the people?
A room measuring 5X5X1.9 meters has a volume of 47.5 m^3. There were three (3) such rooms in the original gas chamber for a total of 142.5 m^3. That's without any occupants. The volume of the exhaust piping is negligible. Assume a pipe 6 inches in diameter and 120 feet long for delivering the exhaust to the individual chambers. That would have a volume of less than 1 m^3 (.67 m^3). Filling the chambers with people will obviously reduce the volume available for the exhaust.

Nessie is obviously nitpicking in an attempt to obfuscate. Nessie obviously has his head up his arse.
Adding people makes a significant difference to the volume. You had forgotten to include people in your calculations.

Why accept Wiernik as accurate?
You also need to accept that you are assuming each chamber only had an inlet pipe and there was no pressure release system, which could have been as simple as an outflow pipe at the point furthest from the engine, which would not necessarily be known to any witness.
No, I'm assuming nothing. I'm simply taking the statements by the eyewitnesses as given and showing how ridiculous they are. Name the witness who claimed that the gas chamber had a "pressure release system" or an "outflow pipe" and quote them. Sell your COULDA' bullshit down the street.
No, you are assuming that the Germans built a gas chamber that did not have a means to deal with pressure.
Back pressure would stall the engine long before that happened. Your argument from incredulity that the building would collapse is a fallacy.
How amusing. Nessie tries to use my own research to "prove" my calculations a "fallacy". The mfg. recommendation of no more than 25 kPa of back pressure on the exhaust was for diesel engines similar to the Kharkiv V-2 diesel engine. What is the limit in kPa of back pressure recommended by mfg. of large gasoline engines, Nessie? At any rate, it would be a race between the engine stalling and the building collapsing. At least you admit that the IC engine/hermetically sealed gas chamber is a fantasy.
So, you don't know if the engine would stall before the building would collapse and you have assumed that there was not means to deal with pressure.
Your argument from incredulity regarding the M&B dragline, which is a fallacy, fails because none of the witnesses described such an excavator.
So how did those 10X25X50 meter or larger graves get excavated and the ex stockpiled? Those graves didn't dig themselves so how did they get excavated and where are they? If they ever did exist then they still do. Why can't they be definitely located? CS-C said that she would return to Treblinka and find the precise location of those graves so she must believe that's possible. Why did Arad, ARC, CS-C et al. say that the M&H draglines from T-1 dug the graves?
As per the witnesses, they were dug with an excavator (make and model unknown).

Arad etc probably thought that M&H dragline was used because of the Franz photos.

C S-C can only find traces of the original graves, as they were dug up.
You constantly criticise me for pointing out witness evidence is often faulty, unreliable and contains exaggerations and mistakes.
Impeachable in that they're lying. You try to excuse their lies as simply being (heh-heh) little "mistakes".
Not just mistakes, exaggerations and maybe even some lies about particular details.

You dodged explaining why you take witnesses as 100% accurate who you call liars.
There weren't any gas chambers at Treblinka nor were there any giant mass graves. The magic Jew barbeque is just another fantasy. Get over it.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
You dodge that you cannot provide any evidence to back up those claims. To truly debunk the witnesses you need evidence, such as GPR of the camp, forensic testing of the earth, witnesses who worked there who say no gassings happened or documents showing mass transports back out of the camp.

You keep on dodging, so I will keep on reminding you that you are unable to explain why anyone should believe what you cannot evidence, over what is evidenced.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Nessie » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:59 am

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:59 am
Nessie wrote:
I have tested your so called debunking and it fails as it is really just a series of fallacious arguments.
No, you haven't. Now it's your turn to stamp your feet and shriek, "Have too, have too".

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
To truly debunk at TII was a death camp, you need evidence, such as GPR of the camp, forensic testing of the earth, witnesses who worked there who say no gassings happened or documents showing mass transports back out of the camp.

You keep on dodging, so I will keep on reminding you that you are unable to explain why anyone should believe what you cannot evidence, over what is evidenced.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Turnagain » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:53 am

Nessie wrote:
Adding people makes a significant difference to the volume. You had forgotten to include people in your calculations.
Nessie still has his head lodged firmly in his anus. If the gas chamber was empty, it would take less than 5 (4.4) minutes to achieve an increase of .5 atm of pressure. That's allowing for 120 feet of 6 inch exhaust piping. Filling the gas chamber with people reduces the time required to achieve .5 atm of pressure. The hermetically sealed gas chamber is bullshit and all of your "what ifs" and "coulda, woulda" isn't going to change that.
As per the witnesses, they were dug with an excavator (make and model unknown).
Arad etc probably thought that M&H dragline was used because of the Franz photos.
C S-C can only find traces of the original graves, as they were dug up.
So, we're back to the mystery machine and Arad et al. just made a (heh-heh) little mistake. Then Nessie returns to idiocy of the graves being "dug up" so they can't be found. You could make the graves larger by "digging them up" but you can't make them go away. You can't make pits over 30 feet deep just disappear.
You dodge that you cannot provide any evidence to back up those claims. To truly debunk the witnesses you need evidence, such as GPR of the camp, forensic testing of the earth, witnesses who worked there who say no gassings happened or documents showing mass transports back out of the camp.
Of course I've provided evidence to back up my claims. Just because you're an innumerate fool who can't understand the math involved doesn't disprove the evidence. Uh-huh, so why haven't you provided the GPR scans and the laboratory tested samples of the cremains? There are witnesses and a document from the USHMM proving that Treblinka functioned as a transit camp. Your claim of "work selections" is just one of your weasel dodges. The only documents that you have that nobody transited through Treblinka are the statements by the partisan, Zabecki, and a Polish train conductor.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Nessie » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:11 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:53 am
Nessie wrote:
Adding people makes a significant difference to the volume. You had forgotten to include people in your calculations.
Nessie still has his head lodged firmly in his anus. If the gas chamber was empty, it would take less than 5 (4.4) minutes to achieve an increase of .5 atm of pressure. That's allowing for 120 feet of 6 inch exhaust piping. Filling the gas chamber with people reduces the time required to achieve .5 atm of pressure. The hermetically sealed gas chamber is bullshit and all of your "what ifs" and "coulda, woulda" isn't going to change that.
Filling the chamber with people reduces the volume, which reduces the amount of exhaust pumped in, with reduces any pressure issues, which assumes the Germans could never figure out how to solve pressure issues :roll:
As per the witnesses, they were dug with an excavator (make and model unknown).
Arad etc probably thought that M&H dragline was used because of the Franz photos.
C S-C can only find traces of the original graves, as they were dug up.
So, we're back to the mystery machine and Arad et al. just made a (heh-heh) little mistake. Then Nessie returns to idiocy of the graves being "dug up" so they can't be found. You could make the graves larger by "digging them up" but you can't make them go away. You can't make pits over 30 feet deep just disappear.
If large graves were excavated to remove as many bodies as possible, those bodies were burned and then mixed back into the ground, which was covered over and planted over, I would expect large areas of disturbed ground with little in the way of the original rectangular graves still there.

If you read C S-C report, that is what she found. The 1944 aerial photo and 1945 ground photos show the area of disturbed ground.
You dodge that you cannot provide any evidence to back up those claims. To truly debunk the witnesses you need evidence, such as GPR of the camp, forensic testing of the earth, witnesses who worked there who say no gassings happened or documents showing mass transports back out of the camp.
Of course I've provided evidence to back up my claims. Just because you're an innumerate fool who can't understand the math involved doesn't disprove the evidence.
Your argument the gas chambers could not have worked as described by unreliable witnesses who call liars, is NOT evidence.
Uh-huh, so why haven't you provided the GPR scans and the laboratory tested samples of the cremains?
The scans are in C S-C report. I knew you had not read it!!!!

No lab testing has been provided because expert physical identification has been provided instead that there are cremated bits of bone at TII.
There are witnesses and a document from the USHMM proving that Treblinka functioned as a transit camp. our claim of "work selections" is just one of your weasel dodges.
The witnesses speak to being selected for work, a process that also took place at Sobibor and Birkenau (I have not looked at the other AR camps). A few thousand transported elsewhere out of c850,000 leaves a lot of people to gas at TII. You weasel dodge dealing with them.
The only documents that you have that nobody transited through Treblinka are the statements by the partisan, Zabecki, and a Polish train conductor.
Plus Stroop, Ganzenmuller, Hofle and ghetto records show tranports to TII, but make no reference to transports from TII, nor arrivals elswhere.
No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
You have provided no GPR or any other evidence to show no (or very little in the way of) ground disturbances.
You have provided no forrensic evidence to show no cremated remains mixed into the ground.
You have provided no witnesses who worked at the camp who say no gassings and what happened instead.
You have provided no documents to show mass transports back out of the camp that arrived anywhere else.

You keep on dodging, so I will keep on reminding you that you are unable to explain why anyone should believe what you cannot evidence, over what is evidenced.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Huntinger » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:38 pm

Filling the chamber with people reduces the volume, which reduces the amount of exhaust pumped in, with reduces any pressure issues, which assumes the Germans could never figure out how to solve pressure issues
What a total nonsensical statement. Approximately 5 to 10 percent of the exhaust gases from an average automobile or
truck consists of carbon monoxide. Frank dutra which would mean the building would blow apart within seconds before any lethality was reached. The same people who built the Porsche, BMW and Mercedes Benz including the Volkswagon, the same people who built the V2 rocket all of which rely on gas pressure could not solve pressure issues is beyond laughable. If the Germans wanted people gassed they would have done it in style, not some ad hoc shack with exhaust gas pouring into it as described.
𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑
𝕲𝖊𝕾𝖙𝖆𝕻𝖔

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Turnagain » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:15 pm

Nessie wrote:
Filling the chamber with people reduces the volume, which reduces the amount of exhaust pumped in, with reduces any pressure issues, which assumes the Germans could never figure out how to solve pressure issues
Once again Nessie puts his ignorance on display for all to see and marvel at. Less volume of space available for introduction of the exhaust doesn't reduce the amount of exhaust produced by the engine. The volume of exhaust remains constant while the time for pressure to rise is decreased. The exhaust pipe and the empty gas chamber would require about 4.4 minutes to raise the pressure by .5 atm. Use half the volume to accommodate victims and the time required to raise the pressure by .5 atm is 2.2 minutes. IOW, there would be a building failure or the engine would stall in about 2 minutes or less depending on how densely the people were packed into the alleged gas chamber.

That isn't an argument. It's the application of some simple mathematics and Boyle's law. Unfortunately, that's all beyond your ability to comprehend minor mathematics and the principles of a physical law.
The scans are in C S-C report. I knew you had not read it!!!!
CS-C provided NO GPR scans of any 10X25X50 meter or larger graves. She showed some irregularly shaped holes of unknown depth.
No lab testing has been provided because expert physical identification has been provided instead that there are cremated bits of bone at TII.
Uh-huh, we're supposed to take the word of a proven charlatan about an unknown quantity of alleged cremains of unknown origin. There should be at least 2,000 tons of cremains supposedly scattered around or buried in Treblinka. A handful of supposed cremains isn't proof that ~850,000 cadavers were cremated at that site.
The witnesses speak to being selected for work...
Identify those witnesses and quote them. "Speaking to..." is a weasel dodge.
Plus Stroop, Ganzenmuller, Hofle and ghetto records show tranports to TII, but make no reference to transports from TII, nor arrivals elswhere.
The Stroop report is a forgery and the fact that the outbound train records from Treblinka have been destroyed (or lost) isn't proof that the deportees were murdered with the exhaust from a Soviet tank engine. How many times do you have to be shown that the hermetically sealed gas chambers are a fantasy of vindictive Jews and coerced "confessions" by the German/Ukrainian guards?

Your attempt to shift the burden of proof is a FAIL, Nessie.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Nessie » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:48 am

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:15 pm
Nessie wrote:
Filling the chamber with people reduces the volume, which reduces the amount of exhaust pumped in, with reduces any pressure issues, which assumes the Germans could never figure out how to solve pressure issues
Once again Nessie puts his ignorance on display for all to see and marvel at. Less volume of space available for introduction of the exhaust doesn't reduce the amount of exhaust produced by the engine. The volume of exhaust remains constant while the time for pressure to rise is decreased. The exhaust pipe and the empty gas chamber would require about 4.4 minutes to raise the pressure by .5 atm. Use half the volume to accommodate victims and the time required to raise the pressure by .5 atm is 2.2 minutes. IOW, there would be a building failure or the engine would stall in about 2 minutes or less depending on how densely the people were packed into the alleged gas chamber.

That isn't an argument. It's the application of some simple mathematics and Boyle's law. Unfortunately, that's all beyond your ability to comprehend minor mathematics and the principles of a physical law.
Less volume in the chamber, the less gas is needed, the lower any pressure change (assuming there is no means to regulate pressure).
The scans are in C S-C report. I knew you had not read it!!!!
CS-C provided NO GPR scans of any 10X25X50 meter or larger graves. She showed some irregularly shaped holes of unknown depth.
If you are expecting exact 10x25x50 graves to still be there, you are assuming that the Nazis carefully preserved the original grave and did not disturb any more ground to dig out the bodies, or when they reburied the cremains mixed in with the earth. Then more ground disturbances happened when the grave robbers moved in. Then parts of the camp cannot be scanned due to the memorial and trees.

Take all of that into account and it is no wonder only partial remains have been traced by scans. What she has done, is provided more evidence that a large part of the camp was indeed excavated.
No lab testing has been provided because expert physical identification has been provided instead that there are cremated bits of bone at TII.
Uh-huh, we're supposed to take the word of a proven charlatan about an unknown quantity of alleged cremains of unknown origin. There should be at least 2,000 tons of cremains supposedly scattered around or buried in Treblinka. A handful of supposed cremains isn't proof that ~850,000 cadavers were cremated at that site.
The Staffs Uni team are not proven charlatans. That over 75 years later, it is still possible to find cremains on the surface of the camp is evidence that a lot was buried there.
The witnesses speak to being selected for work...
Identify those witnesses and quote them. "Speaking to..." is a weasel dodge.
I do not believe that you have even watched Hunts video if you are asking me that. The witnesses clearly stated on arrival that the Nazis asked about certain workers needed and those who identified themselves were taken, mostly to Majdanek, where they worked.
Plus Stroop, Ganzenmuller, Hofle and ghetto records show tranports to TII, but make no reference to transports from TII, nor arrivals elswhere.
The Stroop report is a forgery and the fact that the outbound train records from Treblinka have been destroyed (or lost) isn't proof that the deportees were murdered with the exhaust from a Soviet tank engine. How many times do you have to be shown that the hermetically sealed gas chambers are a fantasy of vindictive Jews and coerced "confessions" by the German/Ukrainian guards?

Your attempt to shift the burden of proof is a FAIL, Nessie.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
You have no evidence Stroop is a forgery. All of the records show mass transports to TII, no records show them from TII to anywhere else. It would be a remarkable coincidence that only transport records out of TII were destroyed or lost and not transport records to the camp. You are showing yourself to a conspiracy theorists who does not need evidence to sustain a belief.

The burden of proof is on you to back up your claim of no gassings, cremains or graves.

You have provided no GPR or any other evidence to show no (or very little in the way of) ground disturbances.
You have provided no forrensic evidence to show no cremated remains mixed into the ground.
You have provided no witnesses who worked at the camp who say no gassings and what happened instead.
You have provided no documents to show mass transports back out of the camp that arrived anywhere else.

You keep on dodging, so I will keep on reminding you that you are unable to explain why anyone should believe what you cannot evidence, over what is evidenced.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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