Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

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Nessie
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:10 am
Nessie wrote:
Can you explain why anyone should accept your claim that I have no evidence, when all you discuss is the evidence I have?
I don't "discuss" your phony claims, I debunk them. That leaves you with no evidence.
Lie, it leaves me with evidence that you disagree with, not no evidence. Your supposed debunking is flawed. In any case, if I supposedly have no evidence and therefore cannot prove gassings....
No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
...since you have no evidence, you cannot then claim no gassings.

That takes us back to the other question you dodge, why should anyone believe what you cannot evidence?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.


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Nessie
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Nessie »

rollo the ganger wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:55 am
Nessie wrote:That you do not know what the sharks tooth evidences, shows that it is you who lacks the knowledge to have a rational, intelligent discussion.
I told you what it "evidences". Just because YOU don't believe it, or won't admit it's true, doesn't mean it's not.
It is part of the evidence of excavations at TII, which is part of the evidence of mass graves that were exhumed and the cremains reburied and area was covered over to try and hide what had happened.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Turnagain »

Wow! Nessie goes for the world championship of weasel dodges. The exhaust pipe(s) from the engine runs to a sealed chamber so the cubic volume of the chamber can't be calculated. Suuuuure, that's the ticket, Nessie.

Then Nessie's mystery machine doesn't seem to be operative any longer. Well, we know that the M&H draglines didn't dig and stockpile those graves so that shoots down Arad's, ARC's and CS-C's claim that the M&H draglines dug the graves. Nessie is going with the, "If it happened, it was possible" line. Only in Nessie's la-la land.

Then we have lots of smoke but no link to the Hunt video.
You do not know that for sure.
We know that the witnesses claimed that the engine came from a Soviet tank. The T-34 mainly used the 38.8 liter Kharkiv V-2 with a few powered by the even larger BMW gas engine built under license by the Soviets. The BT series tanks were powered by the Soviet knockoff of the American 27 liter Liberty L-12 gas engine. The diesel Kharkiv is down the memory hole so that leaves the gasoline BMW 46.9 liter or the Liberty L-12 knockoff of 27 liter displacement.

At 1,200 RPM, about half throttle, the L-12 would put out 16.2 cubic meters of exhaust per minute. Exhaust volume can be calculated for whatever RPM you choose for whatever engine you choose. The total volume of Wiernik's gas chamber was 142.5 cubic meters. So, even if the gas chamber was empty, the smallest of the engines, the 27 liter L-12 would increase the pressure inside the gas chamber by 1 atm in under 9 (8.8) minutes. That's less than half the time claimed for the gassing procedure and that brick building wouldn't withstand even a .5 atm increase in pressure.

Your claim that we don't know for sure exactly how much room was left in the gas chamber or the exact RPM of the engine is mindless bullshit based solely on your ignorance.
Only in your world are witnesses 100% accurate and liars at the same time.
No, I accurately quote what the witnesses claim and prove them to be liars. Your weasel dodge doesn't fly.
It is not the calculations themselves that is the problem, it is the unreliable information that you base those calculations on.
Really? So what is unreliable about my information? Did your read what I wrote above? What "inaccuracies" are you talking about? Prove that those "inaccuracies" would materially affect the outcome of my calculations. Show your work. Right, like that's going to happen. You're simply blowing smoke and bullshit.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

Turnagain
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
That takes us back to the other question you dodge, why should anyone believe what you cannot evidence?
Your so-called evidence has been debunked. It's proven bullshit. Why should anyone believe your bullshit?

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Nessie
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:32 am
Wow! Nessie goes for the world championship of weasel dodges. The exhaust pipe(s) from the engine runs to a sealed chamber so the cubic volume of the chamber can't be calculated. Suuuuure, that's the ticket, Nessie.
That is not what I said. What I asked you to do was provide me with the precise volume of the new and old gas chambers, taking into account the pipes and the people inside the chambers.

You cannot provide me with the figure, so you weasel dodge :lol:
Then Nessie's mystery machine doesn't seem to be operative any longer. Well, we know that the M&H draglines didn't dig and stockpile those graves so that shoots down Arad's, ARC's and CS-C's claim that the M&H draglines dug the graves. Nessie is going with the, "If it happened, it was possible" line. Only in Nessie's la-la land.
Since none of the witnesses said that the M&B dragline was used, you cannot use that against them.
Then we have lots of smoke but no link to the Hunt video.
Since toy rely so much on Hunt's video, I would have thought you had a link already?
You do not know that for sure.
We know that the witnesses claimed that the engine came from a Soviet tank. The T-34 mainly used the 38.8 liter Kharkiv V-2 with a few powered by the even larger BMW gas engine built under license by the Soviets. The BT series tanks were powered by the Soviet knockoff of the American 27 liter Liberty L-12 gas engine. The diesel Kharkiv is down the memory hole so that leaves the gasoline BMW 46.9 liter or the Liberty L-12 knockoff of 27 liter displacement.

At 1,200 RPM, about half throttle, the L-12 would put out 16.2 cubic meters of exhaust per minute. Exhaust volume can be calculated for whatever RPM you choose for whatever engine you choose. The total volume of Wiernik's gas chamber was 142.5 cubic meters. So, even if the gas chamber was empty, the smallest of the engines, the 27 liter L-12 would increase the pressure inside the gas chamber by 1 atm in under 9 (8.8) minutes. That's less than half the time claimed for the gassing procedure and that brick building wouldn't withstand even a .5 atm increase in pressure.

Your claim that we don't know for sure exactly how much room was left in the gas chamber or the exact RPM of the engine is mindless bullshit based solely on your ignorance.
What do mean by "Wiernik's gas chamber"? Is that the old or the new one? Why Wiernik? You call him a liar and unreliable.

What about the volume in the pipes?

What about the volume of the people?
Only in your world are witnesses 100% accurate and liars at the same time.
No, I accurately quote what the witnesses claim and prove them to be liars. Your weasel dodge doesn't fly.
As I said, only in your world are they 100% accurate and liars at the same time :lol:
It is not the calculations themselves that is the problem, it is the unreliable information that you base those calculations on.
Really? So what is unreliable about my information? Did your read what I wrote above? What "inaccuracies" are you talking about? Prove that those "inaccuracies" would materially affect the outcome of my calculations. Show your work. Right, like that's going to happen. You're simply blowing smoke and bullshit.
1 - you claim all the witnesses are unreliable liars, so clearly your information must be unreliable.
2 - the witnesses give different sizes for the various gas chambers, you have not explained why you pick Wiernik over any other witness.
3 - you do not know the total volume, which is the size of the gas chambers, plus the pipework, minus the people.
No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
Stop dodging explaining what anyone should believe what you cannot evidence. Where is your GPR to show no mass graves? Where is your forensic analysis of the earth to show no cremains? Where is your evidence the brick, concrete and tile building was something other than a gas chamber?

Stop dodging why anyone should believe what cannot be evidenced over what is evidenced?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:38 am
Nessie wrote:
That takes us back to the other question you dodge, why should anyone believe what you cannot evidence?
Your so-called evidence has been debunked. It's proven bullshit. Why should anyone believe your bullshit?

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
Stop dodging, why should anyone believe what you cannot evidence?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
That is not what I said. What I asked you to do was provide me with the precise volume of the new and old gas chambers, taking into account the pipes and the people inside the chambers.

You cannot provide me with the figure, so you weasel dodge.
More weasel dodging from Nessie. Well, perhaps it's just a lack of intelligence and ignorance but in either case, he can't seem to comprehend that the original gas chamber as described by Wiernik would be nonfunctional even if it was empty. At .5 atm the internal pressure would be ~7 lbs per square inch of surface area and it would take less than five minutes for the L-12 engine to achieve that. That would be a little over 163 tons of pressure per square yard. That is more than enough to lift the roof, collapse a wall or whatever. The point being that a brick building of conventional construction couldn't withstand such pressure.

Nessie is pretending to need more precise calculations to weasel dodge the fact that the hermetically sealed gas/vacuum chambers are an impossibility. Note how carefully he avoids the statements of the eyewitnesses who claim that the gas chamber also functioned as a vacuum chamber. Nessie is an ill-educated innumerate fool so whether he can't understand the implications of those calculations or is pretending not to in order to support his belief in the holyhoax is moot. The gas chambers as described by the eyewitnesses are an impossibility.
Since none of the witnesses said that the M&B dragline was used, you cannot use that against them.
Yep, Nessie is going with the, "If it happened, it was possible" line of "reasoning". What happened to your mystery machine, Nessie?
As I said, only in your world are they 100% accurate and liars at the same time.
Only in Nessie's world are witness statements unimpeachable. Nessie's la-la land is a wondrous place.

Nessie then goes on to list some of his spurious objections. Note how carefully he avoids naming any specific witnesses or quoting their statements. Of course he offers no calculations of his own to dispute my work. Just more of his inane "what if" drivel. Tell ya' what, Nessie, give the name of your preferred eyewitness and quote his statements about the gas chambers and I'll run the numbers. Let's see how your objections hold up.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

Turnagain
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
Lie, it leaves me with evidence that you disagree with, not no evidence.
Yep, your so-called evidence has been debunked. You may now stamp your feet and shriek, "Evidence, I have evidence"!

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito End of story.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:37 pm
Yep, your so-called evidence has been debunked. You may now stamp your feet and shriek, "Evidence, I have evidence"!
It seems that Nessie is developing a bit of a credibility issue with itself. It constantly states it has evidence which if the same as presented in the past is full of inconsistencies from paid liars. Despite requests over many years from many people to produce evidence apart from anecdotes and adminicles the well has not gone dry, it was dug into a hill with no water table.

On another issue, it is claimed that Zb was used to gas alleged victims at Birkenau. It was shown on another post that humidity would be high due to sweat and breathing of 2000 people in a rather small enclosed space. It was calculated using medical data that once vapour pressure of water was reached there would be about 68 litres of liquid water on the people, the walls and so on. Cyanide is highly soluble which while reducing the effectiveness this can be overcome by throwing in more cans of Zb.

That aside it is claimed that the gaskammers are washed down post gassing, which is a problem considering the Leichenkellers are below the water table. Assuming this technological problem is solved and the Sonderkommandos were not gassed on entering this means that cyanide solution, highly toxic is washed into the drainage system which would eventually make its way into the water table and of course the Vistula river only 2km away. Water from the Vistula is the source of drinking water for many cities and is used in industry, and therefore its quality and microbiological purity is an important issue.

The half life of hydrogen cyanide in solution is three years, which would mean that during the war years the Vistula river would have been highly toxic killing many people down stream. Kraków, Warszawa, Toruń, Bydgoszcz and Gdańsk all would have been affected by this long lasting soluble poison

This would not be a problem with the forced air circulation system (Kreislauf) as the warm air flowing over the Zb would evaporate the cyanide and any water vapour, both being exited through the roof into the atmosphere. The alleged gaskammer is a different affair.

If someone can provide evidence that cyanide poisoning occurred in towns, villages and cities along the Vistula river this would lend support the gassing claim.

The River Vistula is the biggest river in Poland. 86 % of the catchment area is in the Polish territory
and covers over half of the area of the country. Its source is in southern Poland, 1,220 m above the sea level in the western part of the Carpathian Mountains. From there it flows over the vast Polish plains passing several large Polish cities along its way, including Kraków, Warszawa, Toruń, Bydgoszcz and Gdańsk. The river empties into the Vistula Lagoon with a delta and several branches or directly into the Gdańsk Bay of the Baltic Sea.

If cyanide was used there would be no fish left in the Vistula. Some species only began disappearing after the war.
Vistula Fishing


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Nessie
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:28 pm
Nessie wrote:
That is not what I said. What I asked you to do was provide me with the precise volume of the new and old gas chambers, taking into account the pipes and the people inside the chambers.

You cannot provide me with the figure, so you weasel dodge.
More weasel dodging from Nessie. Well, perhaps it's just a lack of intelligence and ignorance but in either case, he can't seem to comprehend that the original gas chamber as described by Wiernik would be nonfunctional even if it was empty.
It was not empty, obviously, so what was the volume, plus the pipes, minus the people?

You also need to accept that you are assuming each chamber only had an inlet pipe and there was no pressure release system, which could have been as simple as an outflow pipe at the point furthest from the engine, which would not necessarily be known to any witness.

You call Wiernik a liar, so why do rely on his details? What about other witnesses?
At .5 atm the internal pressure would be ~7 lbs per square inch of surface area and it would take less than five minutes for the L-12 engine to achieve that. That would be a little over 163 tons of pressure per square yard. That is more than enough to lift the roof, collapse a wall or whatever. The point being that a brick building of conventional construction couldn't withstand such pressure.
Back pressure would stall the engine long before that happened. Your argument from incredulity that the building would collapse is a fallacy.
Nessie is pretending to need more precise calculations to weasel dodge the fact that the hermetically sealed gas/vacuum chambers are an impossibility. Note how carefully he avoids the statements of the eyewitnesses who claim that the gas chamber also functioned as a vacuum chamber. Nessie is an ill-educated innumerate fool so whether he can't understand the implications of those calculations or is pretending not to in order to support his belief in the holyhoax is moot. The gas chambers as described by the eyewitnesses are an impossibility.
Even if that was the case, that would not mean therefore the Germans could have never constructed a gas chamber that would have worked. Your argument is a non sequitur.
Since none of the witnesses said that the M&B dragline was used, you cannot use that against them.
Yep, Nessie is going with the, "If it happened, it was possible" line of "reasoning". What happened to your mystery machine, Nessie?
Your argument from incredulity regarding the M&B dragline, which is a fallacy, fails because none of the witnesses described such an excavator. You cannot discredit witnesses over somethign they did not say.
As I said, only in your world are they 100% accurate and liars at the same time.
Only in Nessie's world are witness statements unimpeachable. Nessie's la-la land is a wondrous place.
You constantly criticise me for pointing out witness evidence is often faulty, unreliable and contains exaggerations and mistakes. Then you lie that I say witnesses are unimpeachable. Make up your mind :roll:

Then stop dodging why you treat witnesses as 100% accurate in the details they provided and call them liars at the same time.
Nessie then goes on to list some of his spurious objections. Note how carefully he avoids naming any specific witnesses or quoting their statements. Of course he offers no calculations of his own to dispute my work. Just more of his inane "what if" drivel. Tell ya' what, Nessie, give the name of your preferred eyewitness and quote his statements about the gas chambers and I'll run the numbers. Let's see how your objections hold up.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
My main objection, which you dodge, is that you cannot explain why anyone should believe what cannot be evidenced, over what can.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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