The logical flaws in denial.

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Norm
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Norm » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:55 pm

Nessie:
They do count and you cannot explain why there is evidence of those few thousand people selected to work leaving the camp, but there is no evidence of the rest not selected leaving the camp.

Image

I, _?_ (full legal - VERIFIALBE - name),

am so confident that the Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka II "holocausts" happened - as alleged in orthodox historiography,
and that the "eyewitness" testimony for said "holocausts within the holocaust" - constitutes credible evidence,
and that the investigations of said "holocaust" camps in search of empirical evidence - were valid,
that I am willing to bet Greg Gerdes _?_ (choose one):


1: $ .o6 US

2: $ .60 US

3: $ 6.00 US

4: $ 60.00 US

5: $ 600.00 US

6: $ 6,666.66 US


that I can show him the evidence which proves _?_ (list all that apply):


1: With 100% certainty

2: Beyond a shadow of a doubt

3: With the utmost certainty

4: With the same standard of proof espoused by Michael Shermer and the so-called "Skeptics" Society

5: With the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts

6: With the same standard of proof applied in U.S. civil courts

7: With the same standard of proof applied in German Federal Republic courts

8: With the same standard of proof applied at Nuremberg


that at _?_ (choose one):

1: Belzec

2: Sobibor

3: Treblinka II


no less than (choose as many as apply):


_?_ people were dead on arrival at the camp.

_?_ people (internees) actually set foot (dead or alive) within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people were murdered within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people died by means of poison gas within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people died by means of a bullet wound received within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people were buried (as whole corpses) within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ corpses "in a wax-fat transformation" currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people were cremated within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ pounds of human cremains were buried within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ pounds of human remains currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ human teeth currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ bullets currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ pits / ditches alleged by the eyewitnesses to have been dug and utilized as burning / cremation - pits / ditches have actually been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ of the above said verified eyewitnessed burning / cremation - pits / ditches within the boundary of the camp currently contain human remains.

_?_ pits / ditches alleged by the eyewitnesses to have been dug and utilized as mass graves have actually been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ of the above said verified eyewitnessed mass graves within the boundary of the camp currently contain human remains.

_?_ scientific reports detailing the forensic analysis of remains located within the boundary of the camp were completed.


Furthermore, because I want to do all I can to put an end to holocaust denial, I agree to challenge Greg Gerdes to accept this wager no later than _?_/_?_/_?_, and agree that if I refuse to answer a question or get caught lying during our debate - I lose the bet.

As well, I accept and acknowledge that the option of demanding that both sides prove to each other that they have the ways and means to make good on the amount that I chose to bet above is mine - which I _?_ (choose - or - do not choose) to invoke.

Remember:

What kind of self-deceiving coward calls a skeptic of their unsubstantiated allegations a

“denier” - yet is unwilling to bet that they can prove what they so vehemently allege is true?

(One cannot “deny” something that does not exist or that has never been proven to be true.)

http://www.nafcash.com/

Image


What are you waiting for Robessie?

What are you so afraid of?
In some circumstances it can be rationally assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be easily discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of evidence of its occurrence as proof of its non-occurrence.
Such is the case for the fraudulently alleged holocaust mass graves: No graves = No holocaust - simple as that.

The Marxist Corey
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by The Marxist Corey » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:53 am

blake121666 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:56 am
been-there wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:04 am
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:58 am
You claim that the lack of records doesn't prove that substantial amounts of wood/fuel weren't shipped to Treblinka to cremate the victims but the lack of records does prove that that Jews didn't leave Treblinka. My, such consistency. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
Good observation. One that devastates any claim to credibility of this H-defending troll from Moronia.

Logical consistency:
no extant records of train transportations prove only that, that there are no extant records. Whether it is transportation of people or wood for pyres.

This simple point is lost on 'true-believers' as they are not interested in historical accuracy but instead are dedicated to buttressing a cherished belief-system against rational analysis.
It's psychotic, cultish behaviour.
Ridiculous. The "lack of train records" gamut is all Turnagain's. No one is using any "lack of train records" for any "proof" of anything - other than Turnagain.

100s of thousands of Jews (men, women, and children) were taken out from the ghettos thousands per day by the Germans. Many of their clothes and other belongings ended up in Majdanek. Most of those Jews were unfit for any work. There's no evidence of over a million unfit for work Jews being resettled by the Germans to somewhere after they were taken from the ghettos - which were entirely vacant after the German clearing out of them.

"Lack of train records" is a horseshit argument of flippant ignorance.

The German army all rode bicycles to the moon. It is only a lack of records of that which keeps me from proving it! :roll:

BT has serious mental blind spots about which side is arguing what.
Does Turnagain think that the Jews who were sent to Treblinka were then sent elsewhere but the records to prove that claim are either missing or were destroyed? If so, that just proves the stupidity of Holocaust denial. One fallacy after another.

Norm
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Norm » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:06 am

[quote="The Marxist Corey:
Does Turnagain think that the Jews who were sent to Treblinka were then sent elsewhere but the records to prove that claim are either missing or were destroyed?

Image

I, _?_ (full legal - VERIFIALBE - name),

am so confident that the Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka II "holocausts" happened - as alleged in orthodox historiography,
and that the "eyewitness" testimony for said "holocausts within the holocaust" - constitutes credible evidence,
and that the investigations of said "holocaust" camps in search of empirical evidence - were valid,
that I am willing to bet Greg Gerdes _?_ (choose one):


1: $ .o6 US

2: $ .60 US

3: $ 6.00 US

4: $ 60.00 US

5: $ 600.00 US

6: $ 6,666.66 US


that I can show him the evidence which proves _?_ (list all that apply):


1: With 100% certainty

2: Beyond a shadow of a doubt

3: With the utmost certainty

4: With the same standard of proof espoused by Michael Shermer and the so-called "Skeptics" Society

5: With the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts

6: With the same standard of proof applied in U.S. civil courts

7: With the same standard of proof applied in German Federal Republic courts

8: With the same standard of proof applied at Nuremberg


that at _?_ (choose one):

1: Belzec

2: Sobibor

3: Treblinka II


no less than (choose as many as apply):


_?_ people were dead on arrival at the camp.

_?_ people (internees) actually set foot (dead or alive) within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people were murdered within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people died by means of poison gas within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people died by means of a bullet wound received within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people were buried (as whole corpses) within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ corpses "in a wax-fat transformation" currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people were cremated within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ pounds of human cremains were buried within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ pounds of human remains currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ human teeth currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ bullets currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ pits / ditches alleged by the eyewitnesses to have been dug and utilized as burning / cremation - pits / ditches have actually been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ of the above said verified eyewitnessed burning / cremation - pits / ditches within the boundary of the camp currently contain human remains.

_?_ pits / ditches alleged by the eyewitnesses to have been dug and utilized as mass graves have actually been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ of the above said verified eyewitnessed mass graves within the boundary of the camp currently contain human remains.

_?_ scientific reports detailing the forensic analysis of remains located within the boundary of the camp were completed.


Furthermore, because I want to do all I can to put an end to holocaust denial, I agree to challenge Greg Gerdes to accept this wager no later than _?_/_?_/_?_, and agree that if I refuse to answer a question or get caught lying during our debate - I lose the bet.

As well, I accept and acknowledge that the option of demanding that both sides prove to each other that they have the ways and means to make good on the amount that I chose to bet above is mine - which I _?_ (choose - or - do not choose) to invoke.

Remember:

What kind of self-deceiving coward calls a skeptic of their unsubstantiated allegations a

“denier” - yet is unwilling to bet that they can prove what they so vehemently allege is true?

(One cannot “deny” something that does not exist or that has never been proven to be true.)

http://www.nafcash.com/

Image


What are you waiting for Corey?

What are you so afraid of?

[/quote]
In some circumstances it can be rationally assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be easily discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of evidence of its occurrence as proof of its non-occurrence.
Such is the case for the fraudulently alleged holocaust mass graves: No graves = No holocaust - simple as that.

Turnagain
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Turnagain » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:09 am

The Marxist Corey wrote:
Does Turnagain think that the Jews who were sent to Treblinka were then sent elsewhere but the records to prove that claim are either missing or were destroyed? If so, that just proves the stupidity of Holocaust denial. One fallacy after another.
Well, we know that nobody was gassed or suffocated in the hermetically sealed gas/vacuum chambers. We know that nobody was buried in mass graves as described by the alleged eyewitnesses that were dug and the ex stockpiled by the M&H model B clamshell equipped dragline everyone but Nessie claims. We know for a fact that nobody was cremated on the magic Jew barbeque using only twigs or brush for fuel.

So, Corey, if you can't come up with some evidence that the Jews were gassed, buried, exhumed and cremated you're just standing there with your thumb up your bum. You hoaxers whine that I just keep repeating myself. Damn straight I do since I've NEVER gotten a reasonable answer to any of my questions. Nobody has ever even tried except Nessie who claims that the witnesses just made some little "mistakes". That and his truly irrational claim that human bodies are in fact flammable and all you have to do is set them on fire and they will not only cremate themselves but serve as fuel to cremate thousands of other cadavers.

It's a known fact that the Germans did keep track of their rolling stock. They didn't just allow their train engineers to roam about Europe at their whim. Those records did exist at one time but now they don't. Whether lost, destroyed or the dog ate them is irrelevant. The fact is that they're gone. They no longer exist.

Nobody has ever shown certified laboratory tested cremains in sufficient quantity to indicate the cremation of ~850,000 cadavers. Nobody has ever shown any proof of any mass graves as described by the alleged eyewitnesses. You have...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

Norm
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Norm » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:27 pm

Turnagain:
Nobody has ever shown certified laboratory tested cremains in sufficient quantity to indicate the cremation of ~850,000 cadavers. Nobody has ever shown any proof of any mass graves as described by the alleged eyewitnesses. You have...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
Oh the irony!

"Skeptics" alleging that they can prove something - without being able to show us any of what they alleged we "deny"!

:lol:

The cravenly refuse to post using their real names - thereby avoiding any repercussion for their numerous lies and dodges, they cravenly refuse to put their money where their mealy-mouths are and they cravenly refuse to accept any challenge to prove what they allege has been proven.

Remember:
What kind of self-deceiving coward calls a skeptic of their unsubstantiated allegations a “denier” - yet is unwilling to bet that they can prove what they so vehemently allege is true? One cannot “deny” something that does not exist or that has never been proven to be true.
In some circumstances it can be rationally assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be easily discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of evidence of its occurrence as proof of its non-occurrence.
Such is the case for the fraudulently alleged holocaust mass graves: No graves = No holocaust - simple as that.

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Nessie
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Nessie » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:29 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:09 am
The Marxist Corey wrote:
Does Turnagain think that the Jews who were sent to Treblinka were then sent elsewhere but the records to prove that claim are either missing or were destroyed? If so, that just proves the stupidity of Holocaust denial. One fallacy after another.
Well, we know that nobody was gassed or suffocated in the hermetically sealed gas/vacuum chambers. We know that nobody was buried in mass graves as described by the alleged eyewitnesses that were dug and the ex stockpiled by the M&H model B clamshell equipped dragline everyone but Nessie claims. We know for a fact that nobody was cremated on the magic Jew barbeque using only twigs or brush for fuel.

So, Corey, if you can't come up with some evidence that the Jews were gassed, buried, exhumed and cremated you're just standing there with your thumb up your bum. You hoaxers whine that I just keep repeating myself. Damn straight I do since I've NEVER gotten a reasonable answer to any of my questions. Nobody has ever even tried except Nessie who claims that the witnesses just made some little "mistakes". That and his truly irrational claim that human bodies are in fact flammable and all you have to do is set them on fire and they will not only cremate themselves but serve as fuel to cremate thousands of other cadavers.

It's a known fact that the Germans did keep track of their rolling stock. They didn't just allow their train engineers to roam about Europe at their whim. Those records did exist at one time but now they don't. Whether lost, destroyed or the dog ate them is irrelevant. The fact is that they're gone. They no longer exist.

Nobody has ever shown certified laboratory tested cremains in sufficient quantity to indicate the cremation of ~850,000 cadavers. Nobody has ever shown any proof of any mass graves as described by the alleged eyewitnesses. You have...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
Your logical fallacies are

1 - arguments from incredulity; you just cannot believe the Nazis would have done such a thing.
2 - arguments from ignorance; you cannot understand from the evidence how it worked, therefore it cannot have worked.
3 - cherry picking; expert physical identification of bone is not good enough, it has to be lab tested.
4 - assertion; you insist that no one has ever shown proof
5 - argumentum ad nauseam; you repeated claim of no cremains, no graves etc.
6 - non sequitur; no evidence of gassings therefore means those people lived and left the camps.

Add in

1 - some hypocrisy; you demand that gassings is evidenced, but do not need daily mass transports to be evidenced
2 - lying; no one has shown any proof of the mass graves

You get Holocaust denial. A hoax perpetrated by a few people who demand what is not evidenced is believed over what is evidenced.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Norm » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:45 pm

Nessie:
lying; no one has shown any proof of the mass graves

Nesserto,
Is it - TRUE. - or - FALSE. - that there are pits containing human remains at Treblinka II?

If your answer is - TRUE. - THEN SHOW ME.

What are you waiting for Robessie?

What are you so afraid of?
In some circumstances it can be rationally assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be easily discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of evidence of its occurrence as proof of its non-occurrence.
Such is the case for the fraudulently alleged holocaust mass graves: No graves = No holocaust - simple as that.

Turnagain
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Turnagain » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:58 pm

For Nessie, anything that questions the holyhoax and he doesn't have an answer for is a "logical fallacy". Of course there is proof of some mass transports of deportees out of Treblinka. That's not proof that all deportees were transported out of Treblinka but it IS evidence that was the case. Nessie dismisses that proof as irrelevant. Just another "logical fallacy".

No, Nessie, identification of cremains by your "experts" is NOT good enough. There are also holyhoax "experts" who identified the shrunken heads, the human skin lampshades and the joo-fat soap so pardon me if I don't accept the untested word of your "experts".

As far as my "lying" about the mass graves then do as Norm and I ask: show us the graves and the cremains. Quite simple, really. Just show us at least a portion of a rectangular pit at least 10 meters deep that contains at least some lab tested cremains. Right, like that's going to happen. Remember...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

The Marxist Corey
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by The Marxist Corey » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:12 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:58 pm
For Nessie, anything that questions the holyhoax and he doesn't have an answer for is a "logical fallacy". Of course there is proof of some mass transports of deportees out of Treblinka. That's not proof that all deportees were transported out of Treblinka but it IS evidence that was the case. Nessie dismisses that proof as irrelevant. Just another "logical fallacy".

No, Nessie, identification of cremains by your "experts" is NOT good enough. There are also holyhoax "experts" who identified the shrunken heads, the human skin lampshades and the joo-fat soap so pardon me if I don't accept the untested word of your "experts".

As far as my "lying" about the mass graves then do as Norm and I ask: show us the graves and the cremains. Quite simple, really. Just show us at least a portion of a rectangular pit at least 10 meters deep that contains at least some lab tested cremains. Right, like that's going to happen. Remember...

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
There is a difference between questioning a historical event and simply denying the facts and what happened because of your own agenda and political views.

There is proof that a small minority of the Jews who were sent to Treblinka were then sent to other places to work. Why are you trying to think that was the case for the vast majority of the Jews who were sent to Treblinka? And, you are ignoring the difference between Jews being sent to other places to work and allegedly Jews being transited to areas to be settled. Now, what happened to the other (the vast majority) of Jews who were sent to Treblinka?

Nessie has correctly pointed out the logical fallacies you constantly use when you repeat the same arguments and claims. Do you deny that you use logical fallacies?

Shrunken heads and human skin lampshade? Really? Are you really mentioning two things which were debunked years ago and no academic or historian ever claims to have happened? Again, this is down to your lack of education.

Another logical fallacy! The single demand proof! Listen, no one buys your “show me...” because people like you always just make up excuses. In this case, it would be something like “prove to me they they were Jews”, etc. Have you seen the photos that were taken in 1945 which show quite clearly what happened at Treblinka? Physical evidence has been consistently found at Treblinka and the people who ran the camp admitted what happened.

If you’re just going to keep copying and pasting the same things (which I suspect will be the case) then you’re just going to just keep going round in circles with anyone (most people) who does not buy your nonsense. You need to let it sink into your head that Holocaust denial is dead and no one cares about it.

Do you want to ever seriously study the Holocaust? I can recommend you plenty of good books which will make you rethink what you currently believe. What book are you currently reading? What sources do you use to base your views on the Holocaust?

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Huntinger
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Huntinger » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:06 am

The Marxist Corey wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:12 pm
There is a difference between questioning a historical event and simply denying the facts and what happened because of your own agenda and political views.
These alleged (((facts))) are based entirely on eyewitness report. Please do not make an assumption on peoples agendas or political views which from what is seen has little to do with discussing these alleged events. To state that everyone has a preconceived bias is true as was shown in the SC study where she determined that a tile with a trademark was evidence of gaskammer.

As Norm and Turnagain have constantly said "where are the mountain of cremains", to which someone like yourself will reply "where did they go". It is highly convenient at a place like Treblinka II the site is covered as a memorial. It would be simple to show the area of cremains that should be there but this probably cannot be done as the story is a myth for the large part.
There is proof that a small minority of the Jews who were sent to Treblinka were then sent to other places to work. Why are you trying to think that was the case for the vast majority of the Jews who were sent to Treblinka? And, you are ignoring the difference between Jews being sent to other places to work and allegedly Jews being transited to areas to be settled. Now, what happened to the other (the vast majority) of Jews who were sent to Treblinka?
If this is the case that begs the question of why this camp is called an (((extermination))) camp when it acted as a transit facility as well. The is more problematic considering that the line to TII was a spur of a spur when there was a real transit camp at Malkinia just a few kilometres away.
Shrunken heads and human skin lampshade? Really? Are you really mentioning two things which were debunked years ago and no academic or historian ever claims to have happened? Again, this is down to your lack of education.
Merely debunking this one does not cut mustard considering it was considered an integral part of the Nürnberg trials along with the same credible kind of eyewitnesses as found in existing claims. It was recommended that "Put downs" be discouraged and here you are doing exactly that. One must consider the possibility the advice given by the global moderator is being ignormed.
Another logical fallacy! The single demand proof! Listen, no one buys your “show me...” because people like you always just make up excuses. In this case, it would be something like “prove to me they they were Jews”, etc. Have you seen the photos that were taken in 1945 which show quite clearly what happened at Treblinka? Physical evidence has been consistently found at Treblinka and the people who ran the camp admitted what happened.
There is a demand for hard evidence which considering the fact that allegedly millions of people were murdered. No one is that good erasing traces and yet here people like yourself stand screaming "believe me" when there is nothing to offer to believe in.
If you’re just going to keep copying and pasting the same things (which I suspect will be the case) then you’re just going to just keep going round in circles with anyone (most people) who does not buy your nonsense. You need to let it sink into your head that Holocaust denial is dead and no one cares about it.
Your opinion is of little value, most kids these days do not think this alleged event is true. It is only believed by force in European countries and very gullible US citizen who also happen to believe in a magical "sky father" for the most part. Most of the world do not think this event happened or if it did was highly exaggerated. The graphs are around somewhere. The fact that the group under discussion is getting more shrill attests to the fact that they like you are getting worried. They should do as when the coin flips there is no where to run.
Do you want to ever seriously study the Holocaust? I can recommend you plenty of good books which will make you rethink what you currently believe. What book are you currently reading? What sources do you use to base your views on the Holocaust?
We do not believe we are looking at the current evidence and finding it very wanting. Despite repeated requests all we get in return is much verbosity from the likes of Dr Adipose and other pseudo intellectuals. If there was evidence there would be no need for all of the fake evidence from notes found in thermos flasks to spaghetti woman in photos; there are enough retouched photos of SS men doing good deeds only to find that they are doctored with atrocities going on.
𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑
𝕲𝖊𝕾𝖙𝖆𝕻𝖔

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