The logical flaws in denial.

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blake121666
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by blake121666 »

been-there wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:04 am
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:58 am
You claim that the lack of records doesn't prove that substantial amounts of wood/fuel weren't shipped to Treblinka to cremate the victims but the lack of records does prove that that Jews didn't leave Treblinka. My, such consistency. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
Good observation. One that devastates any claim to credibility of this H-defending troll from Moronia.

Logical consistency:
no extant records of train transportations prove only that, that there are no extant records. Whether it is transportation of people or wood for pyres.

This simple point is lost on 'true-believers' as they are not interested in historical accuracy but instead are dedicated to buttressing a cherished belief-system against rational analysis.
It's psychotic, cultish behaviour.
Ridiculous. The "lack of train records" gamut is all Turnagain's. No one is using any "lack of train records" for any "proof" of anything - other than Turnagain.

100s of thousands of Jews (men, women, and children) were taken out from the ghettos thousands per day by the Germans. Many of their clothes and other belongings ended up in Majdanek. Most of those Jews were unfit for any work. There's no evidence of over a million unfit for work Jews being resettled by the Germans to somewhere after they were taken from the ghettos - which were entirely vacant after the German clearing out of them.

"Lack of train records" is a horseshit argument of flippant ignorance.

The German army all rode bicycles to the moon. It is only a lack of records of that which keeps me from proving it! :roll:

BT has serious mental blind spots about which side is arguing what.

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been-there
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by been-there »

Turnagain wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:58 am
You [Nessie] claim that the lack of records doesn't prove that substantial amounts of wood/fuel weren't shipped to Treblinka to cremate the victims but the lack of records does prove that that Jews didn't leave Treblinka. My, such consistency. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
been-there wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:04 am
Good observation. One that devastates any claim to credibility of this H-defending troll from Moronia.

Logical consistency:
no extant records of train transportations prove only that, that there are no extant records. Whether it is transportation of people or wood for pyres.


This simple point is lost on 'true-believers' as they are not interested in historical accuracy but instead are dedicated to buttressing a cherished belief-system against rational analysis.
It's psychotic, cultish behaviour.
blake121666 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:56 am
Ridiculous. The "lack of train records" gamut is all Turnagain's. No one is using any "lack of train records" for any "proof" of anything - other than Turnagain.

100s of thousands of Jews (men, women, and children) were taken out from the ghettos thousands per day by the Germans. Many of their clothes and other belongings ended up in Majdanek. Most of those Jews were unfit for any work. There's no evidence of over a million unfit for work Jews being resettled by the Germans to somewhere after they were taken from the ghettos — which were entirely vacant after the German clearing out of them.

"Lack of train records" is a horseshit argument of flippant ignorance.

The German army all rode bicycles to the moon. It is only a lack of records of that which keeps me from proving it! :roll:

BT has serious mental blind spots about which side is arguing what.
Yes, you are correct Blake, “..."Lack of train records" is a horseshit argument of flippant ignorance.”
Quite so. And that was EXACTLY the point of Turnagain. And it is precisely that observation that I was concurring with.

But on everything else you are worryingly wrong.
This is a repeat argument made by the unintelligent troll Nessie. And apparently it has also been made by Jeffk1970.
Not by me. And not by Turnagain.

So... Everything I myself wrote above I still regard as irrefutablly factual and logically consistent. You have not refuted anything I wrote there, that I can see.
Your confusion appears to be based in your unfamiliarity with the fact that this IS the repeating argument of rather unintelligent persons here at RODOH.
And it is that ridiculous, stupid and illogical double standard that Turnagain exposed and upon which I commented.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Nessie
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Nessie »

been-there wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:04 am
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:58 am
You claim that the lack of records doesn't prove that substantial amounts of wood/fuel weren't shipped to Treblinka to cremate the victims but the lack of records does prove that that Jews didn't leave Treblinka. My, such consistency. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
Good observation. One that devastates any claim to credibility of this H-defending troll from Moronia.

Logical consistency:
no extant records of train transportations prove only that, that there are no extant records. Whether it is transportation of people or wood for pyres.

This simple point is lost on 'true-believers' as they are not interested in historical accuracy but instead are dedicated to buttressing a cherished belief-system against rational analysis.
It's psychotic, cultish behaviour.
It is not a good observation, because yet again it shows a lack of understanding of evidence and proof and it is a strawman argument because nowhere have I claimed the lack of records is proof.

The lack of records of mass shipments of wood to TII and daily mass transports back out of the camp is neither evidence nor proof of whether or not such transports happened.

Witnesses claim wood was used at the AR camps, for all sorts of purposes, so it is reasonable to accept, despite a lack of documentation that wood was transported to the camp. The lack of records does not prove or evidence anything about transports of wood.

Witnesses claim most people were gassed and that the trains which left TII were, mostly empty. So, it stands to reason that there are no transport records, but the lack of transports records is not proof in itself, it is instead a form of supporting evidence.

Say the claim was no daily mass transports, but records were found of daily mass arrivals at another place from TII, then that would be contradictory evidence. If the claim was no daily mass transports from TII to a certain ghetto and a check was made of that ghetto's records and nothing was found to show arrivals from TII, that would be supporting evidence of the original claim.

I do not think that evidencing, corroboration, proof etc are particularly complicated concepts. But clearly deniers struggle to understand.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Nessie »

been-there wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:56 am
....

"Lack of train records" is a horseshit argument of flippant ignorance.

The German army all rode bicycles to the moon. It is only a lack of records of that which keeps me from proving it! :roll:

BT has serious mental blind spots about which side is arguing what.
Yes, you are correct Blake, “..."Lack of train records" is a horseshit argument of flippant ignorance.”
Quite so. And that was EXACTLY the point of Turnagain. And it is precisely that observation that I was concurring with.

But on everything else you are worryingly wrong.
This is a repeat argument made by the unintelligent troll Nessie. And apparently it has also been made by Jeffk1970.
Not by me. And not by Turnagain.
The lack of record argument, as in the claim no records proves no daily mass transports of prisoners back out of the AR camps, is not an argument I have made.

The lack of transport records is supporting evidence to other evidence that there were no such transports from the camps. It stands to reason that if there were no such daily mass transports, then there would be no records.

It is a strawman argument by Turnagain, which he is ironically using in this thread about denial reliance on logical fallacies!
So... Everything I myself wrote above I still regard as irrefutablly factual and logically consistent. You have not refuted anything I wrote there, that I can see.
Your confusion appears to be based in your unfamiliarity with the fact that this IS the repeating argument of rather unintelligent persons here at RODOH.
And it is that ridiculous, stupid and illogical double standard that Turnagain exposed and upon which I commented.
The confusion is yours because as you have repeatedly shown, you do not understand evidence, proof and corroboration etc and you are unable to spot an obvious logical fallacy.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Nessie »

been-there wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:56 am
...unintelligent troll Nessie...
Your logical fallacy is ad hominem.

Image

Oh, the irony! Every time a denier posts here they use a fallacy. They are the gift that keeps on giving.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Norm
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Norm »

blake:
There's no evidence of over a million unfit for work Jews being resettled by the Germans to somewhere after they were taken from the ghettos - which were entirely vacant after the German clearing out of them.
Norm wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:36 am
Image

I, _?_ (full legal - VERIFIALBE - name),

am so confident that the Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka II holocausts happened - as alleged in orthodox historiography,
and that the eyewitness testimony for said "holocausts within the holocaust" - constitutes credible evidence,
and that the investigations of said "holocaust" camps in search of empirical evidence - were valid,
that I am willing to bet Greg Gerdes _?_ (choose one):


1: $ .o6 US

2: $ .60 US

3: $ 6.00 US

4: $ 60.00 US

5: $ 600.00 US


that I can show him the evidence which proves _?_ (list all that apply):


1: With 100% certainty

2: Beyond a shadow of a doubt

3: With the utmost certainty

4: With the same standard of proof espoused by Michael Shermer and the so-called "Skeptics" Society

5: With the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts

6: With the same standard of proof applied in U.S. civil courts

7: With the same standard of proof applied in German Federal Republic courts

8: With the same standard of proof applied at Nuremberg


that at _?_ (choose one):

1: Belzec

2: Sobibor

3: Treblinka II


no less than (choose as many as apply):


_?_ people were dead on arrival at the camp.

_?_ people (internees) actually set foot (dead or alive) within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people were murdered within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people died by means of poison gas within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people died by means of a bullet wound received within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people were buried (as whole corpses) within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ corpses "in a wax-fat transformation" currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ people were cremated within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ pounds of human cremains were buried within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ pounds of human remains currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ human teeth currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ bullets currently lie within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ pits / ditches alleged by the eyewitnesses to have been dug and utilized as burning / cremation - pits / ditches have actually been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ of the above said verified eyewitnessed burning / cremation - pits / ditches within the boundary of the camp currently contain human remains.

_?_ pits / ditches alleged by the eyewitnesses to have been dug and utilized as mass graves have actually been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the camp.

_?_ of the above said verified eyewitnessed mass graves within the boundary of the camp currently contain human remains.


Furthermore, because I want to do all I can to put an end to holocaust denial, I agree to challenge Greg Gerdes to accept this wager no later than _?_/_?_/_?_, and agree that if I refuse to answer a question or get caught lying during our debate - I lose the bet.

As well, I accept and acknowledge that the option of demanding that both sides prove to each other that they have the ways and means to make good on the amount that I chose to bet above is mine - which I _?_ (choose - or - do not choose) to invoke.

Remember:

What kind of self-deceiving coward calls a skeptic of their unsubstantiated allegations a

“denier” - yet is unwilling to bet that they can prove what they so vehemently allege is true?

(One cannot “deny” something that does not exist or that has never been proven to be true.)

http://www.nafcash.com/

Image
What are you waiting for blake?

What are you so afraid of?
In some circumstances it can be rationally assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be easily discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of evidence of its occurrence as proof of its non-occurrence.
Such is the case for the fraudulently alleged holocaust mass graves: No graves = No holocaust - simple as that.

Turnagain
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
It is not a good observation, because yet again it shows a lack of understanding of evidence and proof and it is a strawman argument because nowhere have I claimed the lack of records is proof.

The lack of records of mass shipments of wood to TII and daily mass transports back out of the camp is neither evidence nor proof of whether or not such transports happened.
Nessie then writes:
The lack of transport records is supporting evidence to other evidence that there were no such transports from the camps.
Hunh?
Witnesses claim wood was used at the AR camps, for all sorts of purposes, so it is reasonable to accept, despite a lack of documentation that wood was transported to the camp.
Nessie conflates dimensioned lumber, firewood, twigs and brushwood into one. Hey, trees are trees and wood is wood. It's good enough for holyhoax work.
Witnesses claim most people were gassed and that the trains which left TII were, mostly empty.
Which witnesses claimed that some trains left Treblinka with passengers? Name and quote them.

Why don't you take Norm up on his offer? All you have to do is show him reasonable evidence that would prove beyond a reasonable doubt that mass graves containing human cremains exist at any of the AR camps and collect your money. You adamantly claim that's the truth so why don't you prove it?

Norm
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Norm »

Image
In some circumstances it can be rationally assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be easily discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of evidence of its occurrence as proof of its non-occurrence.
Such is the case for the fraudulently alleged holocaust mass graves: No graves = No holocaust - simple as that.

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Nessie
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:45 pm
Nessie wrote:
It is not a good observation, because yet again it shows a lack of understanding of evidence and proof and it is a strawman argument because nowhere have I claimed the lack of records is proof.

The lack of records of mass shipments of wood to TII and daily mass transports back out of the camp is neither evidence nor proof of whether or not such transports happened.
Nessie then writes:
The lack of transport records is supporting evidence to other evidence that there were no such transports from the camps.
Hunh?
On its own, without any other evidence, the lack of transport records does not mean anything. Together, with the evidence that there were no mass daily transports back out of the camp, that lack of records is now explained by the lack of transports.
Witnesses claim wood was used at the AR camps, for all sorts of purposes, so it is reasonable to accept, despite a lack of documentation that wood was transported to the camp.
Nessie conflates dimensioned lumber, firewood, twigs and brushwood into one. Hey, trees are trees and wood is wood. It's good enough for holyhoax work.
Witnesses claim most people were gassed and that the trains which left TII were, mostly empty.
Which witnesses claimed that some trains left Treblinka with passengers? Name and quote them.

Why don't you take Norm up on his offer? All you have to do is show him reasonable evidence that would prove beyond a reasonable doubt that mass graves containing human cremains exist at any of the AR camps and collect your money. You adamantly claim that's the truth so why don't you prove it?
I have already shown you what evidence I can find online to prove it. It is only deniers who refuse to accept the evidence as proof.

You, Norm, Werd, been-there etc all dodge that it is your claim of no gassings at the camps and those people left and it is your burden to prove that.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
On its own, without any other evidence, the lack of transport records does not mean anything. Together, with the evidence that there were no mass daily transports back out of the camp, that lack of records is now explained by the lack of transports.
IOW, it depends on whether the lack of evidence is either pro or anti holyhoax.
I have already shown you what evidence I can find online to prove it.
So, we're supposed to take the words of the partisan Zabecki and the drunk engineer as proof of the trains leaving Treblinka empty. That includes the trains that left Treblinka with deportees.

No answer for Norm then. Gee, I wonder why.

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