The logical flaws in denial.

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Norm
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Norm »

Huntinger:
Lets think like Nessie does.

Image
In some circumstances it can be rationally assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be easily discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of evidence of its occurrence as proof of its non-occurrence.
Such is the case for the fraudulently alleged holocaust mass graves: No graves = No holocaust - simple as that.

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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Huntinger »

Timothy Ryback: foot in mouth like Nessie

Gladly reproduced from Holocaust Scholar Contradicts himself over and over
Timothy W. Ryback is the author of Hitler's Private Library, which was named to the Washington Post Book World Best Nonfiction list in 2008, and The Last Survivor: Legacies of Dachau, a New York Times Notable Book. He has written for The Atlantic Monthly, The New Yorker, The Wall Street Journal, and The New York Times.
Below is an analysis of his comments in the Wall St Urinal
Analysis V Ryback
Analysis: So, Mr. Ryback, both you and Mr. Mensfelt now admit that what you claim were “gas chambers ™ and crematoria” now lie in ruins. That means the “gas chambers and crematoria” that are still being shown to the teary-eyed tourists are Soviet-era “reconstructions” — a fact that “Holocaust Deniers” were once attacked for claiming. Thanks for confirming that for us in the Wall Street Urinal.
Image

Ryback: In the coming weeks, as the Auschwitz preservationists begin their work, they should be guided by the knowledge that these heaps of dynamited concrete and twisted steel are not only historic artifacts but among the few remnants of untainted, forensic evidence of the Holocaust.

Analysis: How exactly do these bombed-out remnants constitute “forensic evidence” of mass murdering gas chambers? Have any traces of poisonous gas been detected in the stones?

Ryback: Of course, the historical and circumstantial evidence of a premeditated Nazi plan to exterminate the Jewish population of Europe is overwhelming. :lol: :lol: :roll:

Analysis: Ah yes. The good ol’ “the-evidence-is-overwhelming” rhetorical trick. Such a bold statement may sway the weak-minded, but it proves nothing. Talk is cheap, as they say. My. Ryback, could you please share with us this “overwhelming evidence” of a premeditated “Nazi” plan to exterminate the Jewish population of Europe.

Ryback: There are the watch-tower-girded enclosures of Nazi concentration camps ….

Analysis: “Watch-towers?” Well, duh! They were internment camps, after all. No one is denying the Jewish internment of World War II. What we want is evidence of a genocide campaign. Continue.

Ryback: … and the extensive testimonials of Holocaust survivors…..

Analysis: Yes, “testimonials” which, as even some of your Jewish colleagues now openly admit, are often unreliable. Speaking of “testimonials,” what do you have to say of the former Auschwitz inmates who later told of spirited soccer games and fun activities for the children? If the Germans were out to commit genocide, why were so many “survivors” allowed to live? Auschwitz alone had 9,000 survivors when the Soviets arrived there.


ImageImage

Ryback: …. as well as the court protocols of Nazi war criminals.

Analysis: So-called “Nazi war criminals” were tortured and the Nuremberg Trials were a joke. Those same “court protocols” told of shrunken Jewish heads, and Jews being fashioned into lampshades and bars of soaps — claims which all “Holocaust scholars” now admit were false.

Ryback: …. but there is little forensic evidence proving homicidal intent.

Analysis: Hold it! What did you just say???

Ryback: …but there is little forensic evidence proving homicidal intent.

Analysis: That’s what I thought you said. Thank you! After just having talked about “overwhelming evidence,” now you say “there is little forensic evidence.” How can that be?

Ryback: The Nazis were scrupulous when it came to obscuring the “Final Solution” in bureaucratic euphemism and also dismantling or obliterating their machinery of death. :lol: :lol: :roll:

Analysis: Yet they left the remains of the “gas chambers” ™ on the campgrounds along with 9,000 witnesses behind for the Soviets to interview. That doesn’t sound like too “scrupulous” of a cover-up now, does it?

Ryback: The dearth of hard evidence ….

Analysis: A “dearth (complete lack) of hard evidence.” Dearth is a very strong word. Thank you, Timmy. Thank you, thank you and thank you!

Ryback: … has fueled a growth industry in Holocaust-denial.

Analysis: “Holocaust Denial” ™ — a silly slogan used to silence debate. In other words, just because there is a “dearth of hard evidence,” it is still wrong to question the Holocaust. This is known as “circular logic.” It is like a prosecutor saying to a jury: “Ladies and Gentleman of the jury, do not let the ‘dearth’ of hard evidence influence your verdict. The only reason why there is no hard evidence is that the defendant covered his tracks so well.”

Absurd, to say the least. But thanks just the same, Timmy, for conceding that hard evidence is totally lacking.

Ryback: The revisionists’ plaint is simple: They demand a proverbial “smoking gun” to prove that the Nazis deliberately and systematically designed an industrial system of extermination.

Analysis: Well, excuuuuuse us “anti-Semites” for being so impertinent as to simply ask for evidence of this “industrial system of extermination.” But thanks for admitting that there is no “smoking gun” and that you cannot prove your case.


Ryback: Auschwitz has been a particular target of Holocaust deniers — in particular, the gas chamber in Auschwitz I, the original base camp a mile east of Birkenau. It was here that some of the first experiments with poison gas were undertaken in a converted air-raid shelter refitted with air-tight doors and special ducts for homicidal purposes. Dynamited by the Nazis in the autumn of 1944, the gas chamber was reconstructed after the war.

Analysis: Why did the “Nazis” dynamite the “gas chamber?” Did they suddenly decide to stop “gassing” people? And thanks again for conceding that the current “gas chamber” is a Soviet reconstruction — a fake.

Ryback: As one revisionist notes: “The official view holds that the Soviets and Poles created a ‘gas chamber’ in an air-raid shelter that had been a ‘gas chamber’. The revisionist view holds that Soviets and Poles created a ‘gas chamber’ in an air-raid shelter that had been an air-raid shelter.” While most serious historians refuse to dignify such statements with a response, Polish administrators have taken the bait.

Analysis: Ah yes. The “No serious person” Logical Fallacy and the old “I-refuse-to-dignify-that-with-a-response” rhetorical trick. It is the sure sign of an empty case, and an empty mind, when one has to resort to such pathetic High School debating tactics.

Ryback: In response to revisionist charges, they (the Poles) tested the gas chamber walls for residual traces of cyanide gas but found none.

Analysis: They found no residual traces of cyanide gas. THANK YOU!

Ryback: Unlike the delousing chambers whose walls still show cyanide “staining,”…..

Analysis: And thanks for admitting that there were “delousing chambers” at Auschwitz. In so doing, you have confirmed the fact that the Germans were trying to prevent the inmates from dying of typhus. I suppose they had to save the Jews in order to kill them?

Ryback: ….. the gas chambers betrayed no residual traces of Zyklon B.

Analysis: So, in addition to your concessions that there is a “dearth” of hard evidence, and that the gas chambers ™ are Soviet reconstructions, you further concede that the forensic analysis shows no traces of “Zyklon B” (a pesticide-turned-into-poison) in the stone walls. Stone is like sponge, Timmy. Any poison gas would have been absorbed and preserved for posterity to analyze, as it was in the de-lousing chambers which, as you conceded, do indeed show traces of bug spray. Can you explain, or should I say, rationalize that bit of scientific reality away for us, Timmy?

…….

…….

Go ahead, Timmy Two-Face. Tell us why not a single trace of deadly chemicals was found in the analysis. We just gotta hear this!

…….

…….

…….

We’re still waiting, Timmy.

…….

…….

Ryback: The homicidal process was so murderously brief that the cyanide never penetrated the interior surface.


Ryback: Similarly, it was found that repeated postwar “cleaning” had leached the last traces of cyanide from the heaps of human hair, one of the most damning pieces of Holocaust evidence.

Analysis: Let me get this straight, Timmy. You’re saying that the “Nazis” shaved the heads of their victims after killing them in poison-gas chambers but before finally cremating them? And that the poison-saturated hair was later shampooed by the Soviets and the chemical traces are now gone? Are you flippin’ serious? What were the “Nazis” planning to do with the “heaps of human hair?” Make wigs? And why would the shaving of hair be considered a “damning piece of evidence” when it was done to prevent the spread of typhus-carrying lice. Doesn’t that prove that the big bad “Nazis” were NOT out to kill their prisoners?

Ryback: In the battle against Holocaust deniers, Birkenau’s extermination facilities remain important forensic evidence.

Analysis: Timmy! You’re gonna give a friggin’ heart-attack! What forensic evidence?! You just admitted that there are no traces of poison in neither the stones nor the hair. There you go again with that quintessentially Jewish circular reasoning. “The gas chambers existed. Although there is a “dearth” of hard evidence; that doesn’t disprove anything because we already know that the gas chambers existed.”

Ryback: Between 1942, when they were first put into operation, and 1944, when they were dynamited, more than a million human beings — mostly Jewish — were fed into these extermination plants, forced into subterranean chambers and gassed, their corpses removed and transported by mechanical conveyance to the crematoria ovens.

Analysis: More than one-million were gassed, yet you said earlier that “the cyanide never penetrated the interior surface” because the episodes were “so murderously brief.”Timmy, even if the “brief” mass gassing episodes were just 10 seconds long, when multiplied 1000’s of times to reach that one million number — an average of 40,000 “gassing deaths per month”, (right under the noses of Red Cross inspectors!) we’re talking about many hours of poison gassing. Why no traces of this in the forensic analysis?

And Timmy, one more thing; for nearly 50 years, you and your gang told us that 4,000,000 died at Auschwitz. Then, after “Holocaust Deniers” ™ began poking around Auschwitz, the official number was suddenly chopped down to 1,000,000. How do you account for such a drastic reduction? And if the 4,000,000 was wrong, why should we now take your word now on the “1,000,000?”




Image


And furthermore, if the Auschwitz “death toll” was shaved down by 3 million, why do “youse guys” keep saying “6 million” ™ died in all. Has 1st-grade math, like modern physics, now become “relative” too?

Ryback: The chimneys belched smoke into the air.

Analysis: Chimneys emitting smoke? Really? No friggin’ way! Perhaps you were expecting little white doves to come out of the chimneys? Or maybe, soap bubbles?

Ryback: The remnant ash was scattered in the surrounding fields, or dumped in a nearby pond whose muddied bottom, even today, is of a sticky gray viscosity …

Analysis: So, after 60 years of natural forces at work in the pond (article written in 2004), the “sticky gray viscosity” never went away; yet the cyanide traces completely disappeared from the untouched remnants of the stone walls and the “heaps of human hair.” Bend that “science,” Timmy, bend it hard!

Ryback:….laced with matchstick-size splinters of human bone.

Analysis: “Match-like splinters?” Seriously, Tim? Fish and geese bone splinters and the bottom of a pond, if even that. But thanks for conceding the fact that there are no actual bodies nor skeletons. No forensics, no documents, no direct eye-witnesses, no bodies. With a “prosecutor” like you, Timmy, who even needs a defense lawyer!

Ryback: The horrors of this machinery have been preserved in the classic memoirs of survivor-authors like Elie Wiesel and Primo Levi…

Analysis: The good ole “Appeal to Authority” Fallacy. If it is in a book, written by other known liars who continue to cash in on book sales and speaking fees, then it must be true, eh Timmy? Elie the Weasel was the money-grubbing clown who once wrote that Germans used to throw babies into the bonfires they had lit at Auschwitz — just for laughs.

Ryback: But, as with any account filtered through human memory, this “evidence” is subject to challenge and rebuttal. There is no arguing with the presence of the Birkenau gas chambers. Here the proof of the Holocaust is written in concrete and steel.

Analysis: “There is no arguing?” Says who, Timmy? Says you? This is the old, “Case Closed” debating trick; a variation of the “I-refuse-to-dignify-that-with-a-response” trick. You’re right Timothy. There is “no arguing” with lunatics and liars. But thanks for inadvertently conceding the case by repeatedly admitting that there is no evidence.

SUMMARY OF RYBACK’S CONCESSIONS
  • Auschwitz ‘Gas Chambers’ shown to tourists are actually a “reconstruction”
  • Germans used delousing chambers to prevent death by typhus
  • Remains of alleged “gas chambers” tested negative for poison gas
  • Original Auschwitz death toll of “4 million” was a massive exaggeration
  • No documentary evidence of the “Holocaust”
  • No “smoking gun” evidence / “dearth of hard evidence”
  • No bodies


Keep making concessions like that and soon they’ll be calling you a “Holocaust Denier” and taking your books off of Amazon — as they did with “The Bad War,” by yours truly (see ad below). Timmy, you have lost the Jewdo match. Next time; know your Miranda Rights and shut that stinking hole in your lying mouth.



Full Wall Street Journal Article:



ADDENDUM: OTHER JEWISH ‘HOLOCAUST’ CONCESSIONS

C.L. Sulzberger

The “gas chambers” claim originated in a report issued by a Soviet Committee just hours after Germany had unconditionally surrendered (and thus, could not rebut).
link


Deborah Lipstadt

German documents never refer to a genocide campaign and the story of Jews being used to make soap is a hoax.

Simon Weisenthal

Contrary to Eisenhower’s propaganda films, there was no “gas chamber” at the Dachau Concentration Camp.

Elan Steinberg, Peter Novick and others

The testimony of Holocaust survivors is often unreliable.

The Jewish Virtual Library

The International Red Cross inspected the German POW and concentration camps and gave passing grades (but, of course, remained silent about the Jews.)

The New York Times

The ‘6 Million Dead’ was proclaimed before a single camp had been liberated.

The Forward (A Jewish Daily)

3000 babies born at Auschwitz



It’s time for the Holohoaxers to raise the White Flag of surrender!


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Nessie
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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:09 pm
Sell your "The little boy rode his tricycle to the moon" type stories down the street, Nessie. The physically impossible didn't happen no matter how much you stamp your feet and shriek, "It's corroborated, it's corrorborated".
You happily accept the physically impossible mass transportation, feeding and clothing of over a million people that has left no evidence of it happening.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:46 am
You happily accept the physically impossible mass transportation, feeding and clothing of over a million people that has left no evidence of it happening.
I do as what you claim is not the scenario except the one projected inside your head.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:46 am
Turnagain wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:09 pm
Sell your "The little boy rode his tricycle to the moon" type stories down the street, Nessie. The physically impossible didn't happen no matter how much you stamp your feet and shriek, "It's corroborated, it's corrorborated".
You happily accept the physically impossible mass transportation, feeding and clothing of over a million people that has left no evidence of it happening.
The lack of records doesn't prove an impossibility. Combustible cadavers are an impossibility.

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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:53 am

The lack of records doesn't prove an impossibility. Combustible cadavers are an impossibility.
ITs rambling let it ramble, who cares. We have more than he to talk about surely. It is inconsequential. Give it an oxygen mask and it can pretend it is a gas mask.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:53 am
Nessie wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:46 am
Turnagain wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:09 pm
Sell your "The little boy rode his tricycle to the moon" type stories down the street, Nessie. The physically impossible didn't happen no matter how much you stamp your feet and shriek, "It's corroborated, it's corrorborated".
You happily accept the physically impossible mass transportation, feeding and clothing of over a million people that has left no evidence of it happening.
The lack of records doesn't prove an impossibility. Combustible cadavers are an impossibility.
Explain how it was possible to transport, feed, cloth and accommodate 1.24 million people from the AR camps by the end of 1942, without leaving any evidence at all.

There is no documentary evidence of the food, clothing and transportation required. There is no documentary evidence of mass arrivals from the AR camps at anywhere else.

There is no witness evidence (yet there were 1.24 people to witness what happened), plus Nazis who would have had to organise and guard those transports.

There is no physical evidence of where the 1.24 million ended up being accommodated. To accommodate that number of people would need huge camps, but you cannot show any being built. Or, those people would need accommodating in ghettos somewhere, but in 1942-3, ghettos were being closed down, so there was even less space to accommodate all of those people.

Your claim is physically impossible to have happened.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:51 am

There is no physical evidence of where the 1.24 million ended up being accommodated. To accommodate that number of people would need huge camps, but you cannot show any being built. Or, those people would need accommodating in ghettos somewhere, but in 1942-3, ghettos were being closed down, so there was even less space to accommodate all of those people.

Your claim is physically impossible to have happened.
There is a huge amount of evidence. The fact that 4.6 million of them claimed compensation means that what is suggested is lost in the fog of war. End of story on this one.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by Turnagain »

You claim that the lack of records doesn't prove that substantial amounts of wood/fuel weren't shipped to Treblinka to cremate the victims but the lack of records does prove that that Jews didn't leave Treblinka. My, such consistency. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.

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Re: The logical flaws in denial.

Post by been-there »

Turnagain wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:58 am
You claim that the lack of records doesn't prove that substantial amounts of wood/fuel weren't shipped to Treblinka to cremate the victims but the lack of records does prove that that Jews didn't leave Treblinka. My, such consistency. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
Good observation. One that devastates any claim to credibility of this H-defending troll from Moronia.

Logical consistency:
no extant records of train transportations prove only that, that there are no extant records. Whether it is transportation of people or wood for pyres.

This simple point is lost on 'true-believers' as they are not interested in historical accuracy but instead are dedicated to buttressing a cherished belief-system against rational analysis.
It's psychotic, cultish behaviour.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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