Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

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Turnagain
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Turnagain » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:12 am

Nessie is back with his usual claptrap. I didn't say that mass gassing wasn't possible. I said that what many of the so-called witnesses claimed was impossible. Then we have Nessie's usual weasel dodge that the alleged witnesses' outright lies are just little (heh-heh) "mistakes". All we're missing is Nessie droning on with his mantra of, "If there's no travel itinerary for every deportee then they were gassed".

Not a word from Nessie about any of the physical evidence concerning Zyklon b and the alleged gas chambers at Aushwitz-Birkenau. Hey, if it happened, it was possible. So it goes in Nessie's la-la land.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Huntinger
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Huntinger » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:11 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:47 am
It's my understanding that the narrative states that after the victims were dead, which took anywhere from a few minutes up to 30 minutes, the baskets of Z-B were withdrawn from the Kula columns, the gas chamber ventilated for 10 to 25 minutes and the bodies then removed. The "leftover" Z-B was left to complete outgassing on the roof of the alleged gas chamber. Sounds like horse frocky to me.
The bodies would be absolutely soaked with huge amounts of hydrocyanic acid dissolved into the liquid and extremely toxic. Handling one would be lethal let alone several thousand. The insides of the gaskammer would also be highly toxic. It would take much much longer than 30 mins to ventilate as the water would be highly toxic. That stuff being flushed down the system would also destroy the water table. It is this reason why the hot air forced circulation system was designed to use this as the pellets were heated by hot air circulated around the clothes and emitted into the air; the circulation system is not a closed system with constant outgassing.
Ignore flipper,
Last edited by Huntinger on Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nessie
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Nessie » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:20 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:12 am
Nessie is back with his usual claptrap. I didn't say that mass gassing wasn't possible. I said that what many of the so-called witnesses claimed was impossible.
What you really mean is that in your opinion, the way they describe the gassings as taking place, would if put into practice, would not work.
Then we have Nessie's usual weasel dodge that the alleged witnesses' outright lies are just little (heh-heh) "mistakes". All we're missing is Nessie droning on with his mantra of, "If there's no travel itinerary for every deportee then they were gassed".
What that means is that all you have done, at best, is show that the way they describe the gassings as taking place, would if put into practice, would not work.
Not a word from Nessie about any of the physical evidence concerning Zyklon b and the alleged gas chambers at Aushwitz-Birkenau. Hey, if it happened, it was possible. So it goes in Nessie's la-la land.
It is that lack of evidence about THE DETAILS, such as how much Z-B was used and in the circumstances at the kremas, how long it took to out gas, which makes your critique faulty. You cannot rule out error and so you cannot safely and reliably conclude all the witnesses lied and there were no gassings.

It is possible that gassings took place, just not as described by the witnesses. An examination of all the evidence and the lack of the only alternative to gassings, shows that is what has happened. The witnesses left out information about the gassings and make mistakes about the detail, but they were truthful that gassings did take place.
No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
To conclude that, you need evidence, which you do not have. You never did explain why anyone should believe what you cannot evidence.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Huntinger » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:32 pm

Nessie wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:20 pm
It is possible that gassings took place, just not as described by the witnesses. An examination of all the evidence and the lack of the only alternative to gassings, shows that is what has happened. The witnesses left out information about the gassings and make mistakes about the detail, but they were truthful that gassings did take place.
The witnesses are only repeating rumours which are a continuation of the rumours started in the first world war. The poster makes it seem as though there are only two choices, but that is not the case. There is not the slightest evidence that the eyewitnesses were truthful but to the contrary that the inconsistencies prove them to be liars.
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Huntinger » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:49 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:12 am
Nessie is back with his usual claptrap. I didn't say that mass gassing wasn't possible. I said that what many of the so-called witnesses claimed was impossible. Then we have Nessie's usual weasel dodge that the alleged witnesses' outright lies are just little (heh-heh) "mistakes". All we're missing is Nessie droning on with his mantra of, "If there's no travel itinerary for every deportee then they were gassed".

Not a word from Nessie about any of the physical evidence concerning Zyklon b and the alleged gas chambers at Aushwitz-Birkenau. Hey, if it happened, it was possible. So it goes in Nessie's la-la land.
It has been stated many many times, even by Friedrich that gassing with Zb is quite possible, as it was used to gas whole trains. It would be simple to load a whole train full of people into one of these, turn on the circulation system and then drive the train out, dumping the bodies somewhere. The highly ineffectual system as described by the lie witnesses with non functioning kula columns is beyond belief. One might notice there is no mention of Kula columns at Auschwitz 1 fake gaskammer just Zb thrown through the roof and onto the floor. The Kula column is just another morphing but this one wont work as the liars did not consider the humidity.
The other point is if the dastardly Nazis destroyed the kremas to hide their evil crimes why did they leave A1 intact? Not much evidence there of any gassing.
It spend months in exile ice fishing in Siberia but is still continuing the same rubbish that put it there in the first place. I think to talk with him is "troll enabling" which is why I suggested it be ignored.
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blake121666
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by blake121666 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:41 pm

been-there wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:45 am
blake121666 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:13 pm
been-there wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:48 am
blake121666 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:02 am


Did I not explain Berg's graphs well enough to you? The right one is with no blower in a warm room (between 30-35C). And full outgassing occurs within 30 minutes.

It is up to you to prove any claims about humidity. And you most certainly have not done that! I want EMPIRICAL proof of any claim you make. :D Something such as the graph I showed above will suffice (qualified experts showing their empirical results). Show me empirical proof about any humidity contentions you might make.
Then isn't it up to you to prove any claims about room temperature of morgues just from body heat?
Have you most certainly done that?
Why do YOU not want and provide EMPIRICAL proof of any claim you yourself make. :D
Why have you not shown us empirical proof about any morgue room temperature contentions you might make.

I think this demonstrates a quite alarming double-standard and lack of self-awareness.
It's so common-sensical as to be assumed by people such as Germar Rudolf that a room packed with people would quickly heat up to about body temperature. Hence his assumption of 30C for the room's temperature throughout all of his writings on it.

If you google around you see that most people estimate the body heat output of a person to be about 100W or something like 330 BTU/h. Google, for instance, "btu/hr body heat" - and one typically sees figures like this. You could half the figures if you like.

Going to a site such as this one, you can calculate the BTUs needed to heat a room of the dimensions of K2/K3 L1's by 30C (we'll just assume that the morgues are at 0C - colder than any alleged gassing day).

The L1s are each 30m x 7m x 2m, have no windows, and therefore one gets:

Image

So one would need about 17,937 BTUs to raise the temperature in the room 30C. 2000 people emitting about 330 BTU/hr would thus raise the temperature in the room in under 2 minutes. Or you could double or quadruple that time if you like.

Of course we can't rely on something such as I've done here for any kind of exacting estimate - but you see how trivially easy it is to raise the temperature in a room packed with people, don't you?

Your unreasonable estimation that a room packed with people would not have a rise in temperature is against anyone's common sense and everyday experiences. It's almost fair to say that YOU should empirically prove that a temperature rise would NOT occur as explained here.

Am I to prove to you that water is wet? Do you need some kind of proof for that?
Ok. Thanks for this.
You have convinced me that I was wrong.
I.e. that 2000 naked people in a morgue that size could increase the room temperature to the specified degree.

I accept correction from you on this point.
Eek, I didn't notice until seeing my screen capture in your reply that I used feet instead of meters for the room width! That site then gives 49,941 BTUs => about 4.5 minutes instead of the under 2 minutes. The point is the same though: in a reasonably short amount of time the room would heat up.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by blake121666 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:12 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:59 am
Blake121666 wrote:
So one would need about 17,937 BTUs to raise the temperature in the room 30C. 2000 people emitting about 330 BTU/hr would thus raise the temperature in the room in under 2 minutes.
You've mistakenly entered 30 feet for the length of the gas chamber (L1?). The dimensions you gave are 7 meters wide, 30 meters long and 2 meters in depth. According to the Accuweather site, the historic average low temperature for Warsaw, Poland is 21F. Plugging those values into the calculator we get 52,715 BTU to bring the temperature up to 78F the boiling point of HCN. Using your value of 330 BTU/hr for heat produced by 2,000 people, it would take 1.6 hours to raise the temperature to 78F.

I have no idea what the distribution curve for the temperature rise would look like.

B-T wrote:
You have convinced me that I was wrong.
I.e. that 2000 naked people in a morgue that size could increase the room temperature to the specified degree.
Have I "un-convinced" you, B-T? Equalizing terms is a necessary PITA; meters to meters, grams to grams, etc. and an easy mistake to make. A Mars rover was crashed because of it so even the so-called "experts" can blow it.
52,715 BTU / (330 BTU/hr-person * 2000 persons) = .08 hr = 4.79 minutes

Another way to think about it, of course, is that the room is alleged to have been very densely packed with persons. Those persons alone make up most of the volume of that room. And those persons keep their body temperature at 98.6F (37C). So most of that room is at 37C.

EDIT: BTW, where in the hell did you get 1.6 hours? Not only do you toss out some random unfigurable number, but you then have BT agree with it! :lol: :lol: :lol:

And BT thinks it is he who is being diligent on the matter - unlike the persons who allege what is alleged in the Holocaust. He doesn't even do a simple arithmetic problem correctly.
Last edited by blake121666 on Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by blake121666 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:17 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:43 am
Would the damp gypsum dry out and resume outgassing when it was taken out of the gas chamber? This is a can of worms. It does seem to shoot a hole in the narrative for how the Jews were "gassed".
Here is a picture showing the Kula basket above the Kula column:

Image

That basket has an inner fine mesh and an outer fine mesh (not very fine but fine enough to contain pea-sized pellets). So there is a thin layer of Zyklon between these meshes running up the whole length of the basket (probably about 50 cm = 20 in).

That is plenty good aeration for those pellets regardless of the humidity in the room.

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blake121666
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by blake121666 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:22 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:47 am
It's my understanding that the narrative states that after the victims were dead, which took anywhere from a few minutes up to 30 minutes, the baskets of Z-B were withdrawn from the Kula columns, the gas chamber ventilated for 10 to 25 minutes and the bodies then removed. The "leftover" Z-B was left to complete outgassing on the roof of the alleged gas chamber. Sounds like horse frocky to me.
The procedure would most likely be:

1: close room
2: fill basket with Zyklon and lower into room
3: force ventilate the room
4: raise basket out of the room and dispose of Zyklon

I would think the pellets would still be dangerous but after the hour or more in the hot room they would be very largely fully outgassed.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by blake121666 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:25 pm

been-there wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:31 am
Turnagain wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:59 am
Blake121666 wrote:
So one would need about 17,937 BTUs to raise the temperature in the room 30C. 2000 people emitting about 330 BTU/hr would thus raise the temperature in the room in under 2 minutes.
You've mistakenly entered 30 feet for the length of the gas chamber (L1?). The dimensions you gave are 7 meters wide, 30 meters long and 2 meters in depth. According to the Accuweather site, the historic average low temperature for Warsaw, Poland is 21F. Plugging those values into the calculator we get 52,715 BTU to bring the temperature up to 78F the boiling point of HCN. Using your value of 330 BTU/hr for heat produced by 2,000 people, it would take 1.6 hours to raise the temperature to 78F.

I have no idea what the distribution curve for the temperature rise would look like.

B-T wrote:
You have convinced me that I was wrong.
I.e. that 2000 naked people in a morgue that size could increase the room temperature to the specified degree.
Have I "un-convinced" you, B-T? Equalizing terms is a necessary PITA; meters to meters, grams to grams, etc. and an easy mistake to make. A Mars rover was crashed because of it so even the so-called "experts" can blow it.
Ha ha! :lol:
Well, yes, you have!

Thanks for your correction of my previous incorrect 'correction'. :D

I always thought it didn't sound credible. But Blake's charts fooled me. So thanks for your input. Much appreciated!
You've just shown that you can't follow an argument. Do you realize how small a BTU is? Do you think I was claiming that 2,000 people generate only 330 BTU/hr? :shock:

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