Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

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blake121666
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by blake121666 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:34 am

Turnagain wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:36 am
Blake121666 wrote:
The blower was only to force the gas through tight openings - such as through a tight knit clothes weave or through a nit egg.
I'm not talking about the air recirculation for penetrating clothing. From the title of German patent #700469 granted to the Degesch company.
Method for generating the necessary heat for the vaporization of poisonous substances for gases used for pest control.
Then we have:
The air was heated before it passed through the granules in the basket. The heated air drove the hydrocyanic acid out of the granules...
Then:
After at least an hour, the operator could begin the venting phase...
Obviously the heated forced air was first and foremost a means of expediting the complete outgassing of the Z-B. Your conclusion that the heated forced air was only used to penetrate tightly woven cloth is spurious, Blake.
The outgassing occurs quickly above the boiling point of HCN. As I showed earlier those rooms used a heater and blower. The heater was to keep the temperature in the room between 30C and 35C (above the 25.6C boiling point of HCN). The blower was to penetrate small spaces. At the 30-35C temperatures, the graphs on Berg's page there show that the full outgassing occurs in under 1/2 hour:

Image

On the right is a graph with the blower and on the left is a graph without the blower.

The curves are of the 5 corners and the center of the room (the center of the room is the bold line). The corner nearest the Zyklon is the first to have its graph rise to a maximum at full outgassing. As you can see,with the blower the gas distribution settles down to be uniform pretty quickly. Without the blower, you see that only the corner nearest the Zyklon reaches its maximum fairly quickly and the other corners only rise as the gas meanders through the clothing.

The process takes over an hour because it takes that long to ensure that everywhere that nits could be have received a sufficient amount of HCN to kill them. That means that the HCN needs to penetrate to very very small dimensions.

Such is of course definitely, without any doubt, NOT the case in the human gassing scenario. There's no penetration of anything required at all. What would be the reason for a blower? I'm not saying that the process would not go slightly faster WITH a blower. It just simply is of no necessity in the human gassing scenario. For the very large rooms that were the alleged gas chambers, a fan system such as for these little rooms is an absurd idea.

EDIT: BTW, hydrocyanic acid is HCN in water. Your highlighted text is technically incorrect. The temperature evaporates the HCN GAS out of the hydrocyanic acid - which had been adsorbed onto the carrier material - and into the air. The fan does indeed help in this - but is of secondary significance compared to the temperature in the room and the thinness of the Zyklon layer. The evaporation happens much more quickly when there isn't anything blocking it - such as other Zyklon granules. The Kula basket distributes the Zyklon thinly. And I'm sure the Zyklon tossed in the windows was splayed out a bit as well.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Huntinger » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:41 am

blake121666 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:34 am
Such is of course definitely, without any doubt, NOT the case in the human gassing scenario. There's no penetration of anything required at all. What would be the reason for a blower? I'm not saying that the process would not go slightly faster WITH a blower. It just simply is of no necessity in the human gassing scenario. For the very large rooms that were the alleged gas chambers, a fan system such as for these little rooms is an absurd idea.
The Kula columns do not work, the moisture would suck in much cyanide; some people would die but not thousands at a time. As mentioned the gypsum base would totally clog the columns with very little gas given off and what was would rapidly be absorbed by the water vapour, one might as well use wet flour. The system as described is basically closed. A close analogy is trying to run your car with a potatoe stuck up your exhaust pipe with sugar in the tank. Could work but not by these parameters. Sadly for your team Blake this fails big time.
Last edited by Huntinger on Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by blake121666 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:41 am

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:04 am
blake121666 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:39 pm

Not the case at all. The human body stays warm for long enough after death to have any absorbed HCN outgas - even with the humidity you are alleging. Zyklon is liquid HCN (hydrocyanic acid) adsorbed onto a substrate. And that liquid HCN evaporates off that substrate. The HCN absorbed by the body would evaporate off during the ventilation of the room. That is what the ventilation is for, of course.
The closest analogy is to try and dry clothes in a very damp cellar during winter in an hour. You know and I know it cannot be done; the warmer the cellar the higher the humidity which stops the water evaporating. One or two measly extractor fans are not going to dry anything. In large drying rooms for places like the army or police there are hot fans blowing into the drying rooms constantly and with openings. This is also true of tobacco drying. Soz but the system you described would not dry anything let alone evaporate any cyanide dissolved in the water.
The room stays hot for awhile. As I wrote, HCN evaporates out of water with temperature. When it does, the blowers will force it out of the room.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Huntinger » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:43 am

blake121666 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:41 am
The room stays hot for awhile. As I wrote, HCN evaporates out of water with temperature. When it does, the blowers will force it out.
Nope, cyanide is highly soluble in water and will remain inside it until the water evaporates. Blowers will not have this drying effect.
As mentioned dry and dry wet clothes inside a cellar in winter or summer. They will not dry for a week.
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by blake121666 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:45 am

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:41 am
blake121666 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:34 am
Such is of course definitely, without any doubt, NOT the case in the human gassing scenario. There's no penetration of anything required at all. What would be the reason for a blower? I'm not saying that the process would not go slightly faster WITH a blower. It just simply is of no necessity in the human gassing scenario. For the very large rooms that were the alleged gas chambers, a fan system such as for these little rooms is an absurd idea.
The Kula columns do not work, the moisture would suck in much cyanide; some people would die but not thousands at a time. As mentioned the gypsum base would totally clog the columns with very little gas given off and what was would rapidly be absorbed by the water vapour, one might as well use wet flour. The system as described is basically closed. A close analogy is trying to run your car with a potatoe stuck up your exhaust pipe with sugar in the tank. Could work but not by these parameters. Sadly for your team Blake this fails big time.
Not at all. The mesh wasn't as fine as you are assuming. The granules were fairly large - being about pea-size. There was plenty of airflow space between the inner and outer meshes for the Zyklon to outgas just fine - regardless of the humidity of the room. You actually need empirical data on this one. Before I was half-joking; but I am not about this.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by blake121666 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:46 am

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:43 am
blake121666 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:41 am
The room stays hot for awhile. As I wrote, HCN evaporates out of water with temperature. When it does, the blowers will force it out.
Nope, cyanide is highly soluble in water and will remain inside it until the water evaporates. Blowers will not have this drying effect.
As mentioned dry and dry wet clothes inside a cellar in winter or summer. They will not dry for a week.
Quite incorrect. Water will not dry as fast as HCN boils out of it. The water largely stays in the Zyklon pellet - the HCN gas boils out of it. The HCN gas is not hydrocyanic acid diffusing throughout the room - it is literally HCN gas!

The airing out phase is done with all Zyklon fumigations. It is definitely not drying out the area - it is "desorping" ("sorption" is the general term for either adsorption or absorption) the gas out of the area.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Huntinger » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:57 am

blake121666 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:46 am

Quite incorrect. Water will not dry as fast as HCN boils out of it. The water largely stays in the Zyklon pellet - the HCN gas boils out of it. The HCN gas is not hydrocyanic acid diffusing through the room - it is literally HCN gas!
The HCN forms hydrocyanic acid and is not simply dissolved. Most of this will be in the clumped gypsum but a small amount of the gas released will form the acid in any water vapour. An equilibrium will be formed between the acid and the air but never a total outgassing until the water is evaporated and then it is likely Prussian Blue may form on other structures. I think reading "the chemistry of auschwitz" might help you understand its chemistry a little better. Also as said the prussic acid would be in the water table poisoning everyone. The real issue is the clumping in humidity. Pretty pathetic way to mass murder people with clumps of wall board. Bullets do a far more efficient job and so does rope.
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Turnagain » Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:29 am

Blake wrote:
On the right is a graph with the blower and on the left is a graph without the blower.
You have your "right" and "left" confused. As we used to say in the army, "Your other right". In any event, the graphs are about HCN concentrations, gms per cubic meter, and don't address the percentage of HCN evaporated from the Z-B. It's clearly stated that after one hour of fumigation and air recirculation, fresh air is heated and blown over the Z-B to evaporate the remaining HCN which is then exhausted with HCN laden air of the gas chamber.

It's plainly stated that hot air, 30C-35C, is used to evaporate most of the HCN from the Z-B in one hour. Hot fresh air is then blown over the Z-B to evaporate the remaining HCN and exhaust it with the air from the gas chamber. Under those ideal conditions, it still takes over one hour for the Z-B to complete its outgassing.

As I said, your conclusion is spurious.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Huntinger » Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:23 am

Turnagain wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:29 am
You have your "right" and "left" confused. As we used to say in the army, "Your other right". In any event, the graphs are about HCN concentrations, gms per cubic meter, and don't address the percentage of HCN evaporated from the Z-B. It's clearly stated that after one hour of fumigation and air recirculation, fresh air is heated and blown over the Z-B to evaporate the remaining HCN which is then exhausted with HCN laden air of the gas chamber.

It's plainly stated that hot air, 30C-35C, is used to evaporate most of the HCN from the Z-B in one hour. Hot fresh air is then blown over the Z-B to evaporate the remaining HCN and exhaust it with the air from the gas chamber. Under those ideal conditions, it still takes over one hour for the Z-B to complete its outgassing.

As I said, your conclusion is spurious.
True, imagine the alternative offered which is a dank humid cellar with only small extraction fans; the perfect conditions for mould growth and fungal spores. Sweat rates for people is 4 litres per hour. This means 2000 people locked into a closed room would produce 8 tonnes of water in one hour, more if piss, shit, menstrual blood are added. To assume a few extraction fans can remove 8 tonnes of water in a very short period of time is similar in magnitude to the Juden BBQ. Should the gypsum not clump this water would absorb all of the cyanide (which is also lethal). To think 8 tonnes of water would evaporate in 20 mins needs Harry Potters magic wand. The calculation to evaporate water is done many times, but these were in an non enclosed space. In an enclosed space with a few extraction fans means stalagmites and stalactites forming from the gypsum: quite a neanderthal man-cave the Nazis produced.
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Nessie » Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:50 am

blake121666 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:35 pm
......

I was under the impression that there were more who were not gassed at Auschwitz then were gassed. There were an awful lot of transits through Auschwitz. Most survivors who claim to have been through Auschwitz were only there for a very short stay. I come across them all of the time. For instance, the Riga Jews were sent all the way to Auschwitz and then transited through over to Hungary!
Details of records for the Hungarian transports here;

http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm

from which; "Gerlach and Aly have found that 4 transports with about 15,000 Hungarian Jews were re-directed to Strasshof. Assuming that Veesenmayer’s figure of 437,402 deported Jews is correct, and subtracting 15,000 Jews who went to Strasshof and 104,000 Jews not gassed upon arrival, and rounding the result, we can conclude that about 320,000 Hungarian Jews were gassed, not about 400,000, as has been assumed by historians."

I have been to the Riga ghetto and there was nothing about the Jews there ending up in Hungary. Where is your information about that? What Riga has, is records of arrivals, primarily from around Riga and Latvia in general, but also transports from Germany. Then from 30/11/1941 to 18/12/1941, the ghetto was largely cleared and those people, around 25,000 were shot in a nearby forest at Rumbula.

In January 1942, the Wannsee Conference minutes recorded the Jewish population of Latvia at only 3,500.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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