Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

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Huntinger
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Huntinger » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:28 pm

As we were expecting you Alonso, this was prepared yesterday.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3340&start=220#p155622
Despite repeated attempt for hard evidence of this event to happen we get nothing except mere anecdotes and lie witnesses.
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Alonso » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 pm

Than you for your answer, @Huntinger, but the linked post doesn't offer any evidence. Just in case, I have reworded my original post to make sure that it's clear that I am only looking for answers that include evidence.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Turnagain » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:43 pm

Alonso wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 pm
Than you for your answer, @Huntinger, but the linked post doesn't offer any evidence. Just in case, I have reworded my original post to make sure that it's clear that I am only looking for answers that include evidence.
The Jewish Virtual Library (JVL), Y. Arad, the ARC site et al. claim that the M&H dragline (excavator) from the Treblinka I quarry was used to both dig and stockpile the excavated material from Wiernik's 10X25X50 meter graves. Another eyewitness, Chil Rajchman, claimed that the graves were larger, 12X30X50 meters with at least one grave large enough to contain 250,000 cadavers. The math gets a little complicated but that's an impossibility. Nessie claims that since no eyewitness stated the make and model of the excavator no calculations are valid. That's a weasel dodge since there's definite proof that the M&H dragline did NOT both excavate and stockpile the ex from the mass graves.

Look at the Wiernik's model of Treblinka. http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/wiernik.html The graves and the attendant stockpiles of ex shown in the model bear no relationship whatsoever to reality. To be anywhere near accurate, the stockpiles would have had to been 45-50 feet high, nearly three times the height of the watchtowers. For a supposedly scale model of Treblinka, type "laponder model treblinka photos" in your search bar. That model shares the same deficiency.

So, those are two observable impossibilities for Treblinka. The hermetically sealed gas/vacuum chambers are another. If you want to see the calculations, let me know. I'll go through it again, starting with the estimation of the length of the M&H Mb's boom and the pressures involved in the hermetically sealed gas/vacuum chambers.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Huntinger » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:33 am

Alonso wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 pm
Than you for your answer, @Huntinger, but the linked post doesn't offer any evidence. Just in case, I have reworded my original post to make sure that it's clear that I am only looking for answers that include evidence.


In normal circumstances when an extra ordinary event is claimed the onus or burden of proof is on the claimant otherwise one simply finds the claim irrelevant. If one claims that a glass is full for instance, this can be disproved by simply taking a photo, but then again one may argue if the glass is say a quarter full or 3/4 empty.
In he case of the alleged holocaust it is akin to disproving Santa does not exist or god does not either along with elves and so on; one must simply rely on the evidence presented of the claim.
In the case of the alleged holocaust there is simply insufficient evidence to support the claim, only anecdotal evidence which is irrelevant. On this basis the holocaust claim is dismissed.
Most of us here have dismissed the holocaust realizing in all probability is is propaganda and not fact and seek to find the reality behind this looking at attention to detail.
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Nessie » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:22 am

Alonso wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:09 pm
Hi, I'm new to the forum, this is my first post. I'm a Spanish guy who recently became interested in the Holocaust debate. Most of my life I have believed most mainstream narratives about most topics, including the alleged holocaust. Over the last years, however, I have become increasingly skeptical about mainstream narratives in general, and more recently about the holocaust in particular. Over the last two years I have read a lot about both mainstream holocaust narrative and revisionism. My current view is that it is almost certain that the holocaust is a big lie.
Can you go into more detail about how it is a lie? For example, for it to be a lie, then millions were not shot or gassed from 1942-4 and so those millions had to be accommodated and fed. Where did that happen? In 1945 when the camps were liberated there would be millions of prisoners. Where is the evidence of that?
Recently a friend of mine challenged my view. I offered him some very compelling evidence that suggests that the Holocaust is a hoax (confessions extracted under torture, prosecution of revisionists),
How is that evidence of a hoax? There are plenty of witnesses where there is no evidence of a tortured confession and Holocaust denial laws do not stop historical evidence gathering.
... but I couldn't offer anything that proves it conclusively. Part of the reason is that in reading about this very complex topic I get lost in the endless details. So in this first post I'd like to ask for conclusive evidence that my view is either right or wrong (both are welcome). I'm aware that there are very extensive works on this topic, but, if possible at all I would like something that can be checked in a short time, say less than an hour (which, apart from being interesting for me, would also be very convenient for a discussion with my friend). What I'm looking for here is evidence that is backed by original documents of proven autenticity. Ideally the original documents should be available to the public. Please only post answers that include links to the evidence that back them or explain where to find that evidence.

I hope this question hasn't been asked before, if it has just let me know.

Thank you in advance.

Note: I published a very similar version of this post in another forum, but when I challenged some of the answers my account was deactivated and my questions censored.
I think that the evidence from documents found at Auschwitz regarding the construction of gas chambers/cellars in the kremas at Birkenau is a good place to start;

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... ce-on.html

Letter from Karl Bischoff of 29 January 1943 on “gassing cellar” in crematorium 2 [Pressac, Technique, p. 432]
Memo from Fritz Sander of 17 February 1943 on “the gas cellar” in crematorium 2 [Schüle, Industrie und Holocaust, p. 456, back-up 1st and 2nd page]
Order of 13 February 1943 on “12 gas tight doors approx. 30/40” for crematorium 4 and 5 [Pressac, Technique, p. 444]
Order of 15 February 1943 on “210 anchors for gas tight doors” for crematorium 4 [Pressac, Technique, p. 448]
Note from Josef Janisch of 15 February 1943 on “for undressing, a horse stable barrack has been erected infront of the cellar entrance” of crematorium 2 [Mattogno, ATCFS, vol. 1, p. 74]
Order of 19 February 1943 on “4 tight doors” for crematorium 4 [Pressac, Technique, p. 452]
Telex from Heinrich Schwarz to SS-WVHA of 20 February 1943 on “the men were specially accommodated because of infirmity, the women because most of them were children” [Sterbebücher von Auschwitz, document 56, back-up]
List of materials of 24 February 1943 on “12 gas tight doors approx. 30/40” for crematorium 4 and 5 [Pressac, Technique, p. 444]
Delivery note of 24 February 1943 on “fittings of 12 gas tight doors” for crematorium 4 and 5 [Pressac, Technique, p. 443]
Work time sheet of 28 February 1943 on “fit gas tight windows” in crematorium 4 [Pressac, Technique, p. 445]
Work time sheet of 2 March 1943 on “concrete in gas chamber” in crematorium 4 [Pressac, Technique, p. 446]
Letter from Topf to central construction office Auschwitz of 2 March 1943 on “display devices for hydrogen cyanide residues” for crematorium 2 [Pressac, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz, p. 92]
Order of 5 March 1943 of “handle for gas door” for crematorium 2 [Pressac, Technique, p. 433]

There is more in the link provided above and the original documents can be found in links within the links.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Huntinger » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:06 am

Nessie wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:22 am
How is that evidence of a hoax? There are plenty of witnesses where there is no evidence of a tortured confession and Holocaust denial laws do not stop historical evidence gathering.
All the witnesses are Jude who are far from impartial. The witnesses at the Zundel trial who was at Auschwitz who actually worked in the kremas said all the gassing claims were mere propaganda. The ovens at Birkenau were for disposal of normal dead people.
That aside all of the information below relates to gas tight doors and seals, which is normal in a war that expected gas attacks as was used in the first world war. Most underground places were used as makeshift air raid shelters and gas isolation units.
There is only an assumption that these doors were used in gaskammers for human lethality. Of course execution chambers would not have gas sealed windows so that is rather silly to include that one. Photos of these gas isolation units are provided on this forum; these are used for human survival. These are also important during fires which also produce poisonous gas, especially plastic products.

The denial laws do not stop gathering of evidence but it does stop publishing those findings which go against the narrative. In any court case a witness who said there were no gassing due to working there could be found culpable under those laws. The law is designed to stop valid eyewitnesses to attest to the opposite. It is a perversion of justice. With time this will be over turned and those people who made the laws disgraced.
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Alonso » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:10 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:43 pm
The Jewish Virtual Library (JVL), Y. Arad, the ARC site et al. claim that the M&H dragline (excavator) from the Treblinka I quarry was used to both dig and stockpile the excavated material from Wiernik's 10X25X50 meter graves.
Thank you for your answer, Turnagain. I'm afraid this is a bit too technical for me. I'm relatively new to the whole revisionist topic and I don't have the background necessary to understand this.

If you had to explain to an 8 year old child why you don't believe the narrative of the holocaust, what would you say?

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Huntinger » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:22 pm

Alonso wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:10 pm
If you had to explain to an 8 year old child why you don't believe the narrative of the holocaust, what would you say?
Es ist nur eine jüdische Lüge. Vergiss es.
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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Alonso » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:28 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:22 pm
Es ist nur eine jüdische Lüge. Vergiss es.
Come on, help me here. I've spent dozens of hours looking for information and this appears to be the only place on the internet where you are given freedom to discuss the topic. I'm sure you can do better than that.

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Re: Proving/Disproving the Holocaust in less than an hour

Post by Alonso » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:39 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:33 am
In normal circumstances when an extra ordinary event is claimed the onus or burden of proof is on the claimant otherwise one simply finds the claim irrelevant.
You're right, but the believers have presented what they claim is evidence that the holocaust narrative is correct. As far as I know what the believers have presented as evidence is no evidence at all, it's a bunch of forgeries, forced confessions, statements from unreliable witnesses, etc. Still, it behooves the "defendant", or in this case the revisionist, to prove that so called evidence is unacceptable.

An example would be the "confession" of Rudolf Höss. As far as I know his confession is an essential part of the holocaust narrative, and it was extracted under heavy torture. I think that a couple of years ago I found an original document in an archive of the US government in which a high ranking military officer reported the torture. Unfortunately, I recently searched again for that document and didn't find it. Apparently there is also a confession by Ken Jones, the main torturer, in a British diary, the Wrexham Leader (October 17,1986). There, Jones says "We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed with axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to help break down his resistance". I've searched online for an original copy of the article in that diary but haven't found it either. Therefore, even though I strongly believe that Höss' "confession" is a forgery, I cannot actually prove it. This is the kind of evidence I'm looking for.

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