Hermetically sealed gas chambers ?

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Nessie
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Re: Hermetically sealed gas chambers ?

Post by Nessie » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:49 pm

been-there wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:32 pm
....

No. A fairer and more reasonable assumption to make would be that they never saw a homicidal gas chamber.
A fairer and more reasonable assumption to make would be that they made up lies that out of their ignorance.
Thank you for your admission that you rely on assumptions, not evidence.
Lies that they didn't inow were obviously impractical and/or impossible.
It is more incredible to claim that the Germans could not figure out how to run the exhaust from an engine into a chamber.
That together with the lack of disturbed earth for their lies of hundreds of thousands of jews buried in mass-graves,...
In volume, how much disturbed earth is there at TII? You can use any volume measurement and do do not need to be precise, you can give a range.
and their lies about mass-murder weapons of diesel exhaust,
The witnesses who saw the engine itself either did not say what fuel it used, or they said it used gasoline.
and coerced confessions of captured non-existent tank and uboat engines,
There is no evidence at all that Fuchs or any other Nazi who gave details about the engine, was coerced.
and the gassed victims depisplaying biologically improbable discolourisations,
Which is based in the faulty claim that all victims would immediately turn bright red at the time of their death.
all converges into the real convergence-of-evidence conclusion. Viz. that the obvious occam's-razor conclusion is that the mass-gassing allegation and eye-witness testimony is a gigantic lie.
You are ignoring that the gigantic lie would also need the cooperation of millions of Jews under Nazi captivity, who would remain hidden after being secretly transported out of the AR camps, to secret locations that could accommodate millions until they were secretly liberated by the Allies, who failed to report finding camps full of millions of Jews....

What is more incredible, that the Nazis worked out how to gas and cremate, or how to secretly transport and accommodate millions of people?
The hermetically sealed chambers is just one small but obvious part of a a tissue of anti-German — and therefore RACIST — LIES!!!
The hermetic claim is like the diesel claim. It over simplifies what the witnesses said and fails to note context and how some witnesses knew more about what happened than others.
There. Do you understand now? :)

And as fir this:
DP wrote “Why anyone would deliberately lie about such a thing?”
:lol:
Oh boy! :? :roll:
:lol:
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Hermetically sealed gas chambers ?

Post by Nessie » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:52 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:47 pm
Huntinger wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:20 pm
Abe Kon, a former Treblinka prisoner, stated on
August 17, 1944:
The cabins had two doors, which could be sealed hermetically. In the corner between ceiling
and wall two openings were connected with hoses. Behind the ‘bath’ stood
a machine. It pumped the air out of the chambers. The people suffocated
within 6 to 15 minutes.
Kazmierz Skarzyński
“Incarcerated Jews in the camp reported that many hundreds of prisoners
at a time were penned in hermetically sealed chambers and were asphyxiated
by pumping out the air. The people died very quickly
Vassili Grossmann
The second most commonly used procedure in Treblinka was to pump
the air out of the chambers with the help of special suction equipment – the
causes of death were approximately similar to those in the poisoning with
carbon monoxide gas: the oxygen supply for the people was blocked. And,
finally, the third method, rarer but likewise employed, the murdering by
steam, which was also based on denying oxygen to the organism: the steam
forced the air out of the room. Various toxic gases were also used, but
merely for experimental purposes
; the factory-scale mass murder was carried
out in the manner described in the first two procedures mentioned
Alexander Donat
“The motor, installed in a workshop near the bathhouse, could be started
now. First, a suction pump was brought into play to draw the pure air
from the chamber. After that, the pipe to the reservoir of exhaust gas from
the motor could be opened.
Donat mentioned Dr. Horonschitzki
These cabins were
hermetically sealed. In the first period, the killing occurred by means of
pumping out the air from the cabins; then one resorted to other methods –
poisoning by chlorine gas and Cylon-gas.
Nessie wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:43 pm
Wiernik also described pipes. not just a pipe. But even one pipe that allows gas in, means the chamber itself cannot be considered hermetically sealed.
Now, stop dodging and explain how a room that has a pipe/pipes into it that allow gas in/out and to circulate can be considered hermetically sealed.
It would appear the poster above knows little about hermetic sealing.A hermetic seal is any type of sealing that makes a given object airtight. As gases were alleged to have entered through a pipe with a positive pressure the chamber is sealed as gases cannot escape, at least until the building exploded. There would be little point in having gas tight doors if the aim was not hermetic sealing of the alleged chamber.
Wiernik
The outlet on the roof
had a hermetic cap. The chamber was equipped with a gas pipe inlet and a
baked tile floor slanting towards the platform. The brick building which
housed the gas chambers was separated from Camp No. 1 by a wooden
wall. This wood wall and the brick wall of the building together formed a
corridor, which was 80 centimeters taller than the building. The chambers
were connected with the corridor by a hermetically fitted iron door leading
into each of the chambers.

This motor was used to pump the gas into the chambers by connecting the motor
with the inflow pipes.
Plus there's the testimony of Rosenberg, Bomba, Rajchman et al. but that's all swept under the rug. One of the advantages enjoyed by the hoaxers is that among all of the conflicting tales of the holyhoax, one can almost always find a "witness" to support even the most outlandish claims. Thus DP triumphantly shrieks, "Eureka, I have found someone who possibly claims that there were holes in the roof". Rosenberg's drawing of windows turns out to be hermetically sealed observation windows? Oopsies! We'll just sorta' forget about that. As for the rest of the witnesses, they just made a (heh-heh) little "mistake". They might have said the gas/vacuum chambers were hermetically sealed but they obviously just meant the doors, the vents, and the observation windows but what would they know? The question remains, "How do you pump the air out of a chamber if it isn't sealed" and "Why wouldn't that collapse a conventionally built brick building"?

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
Witnesses describe attempts to pump air out of the chambers and then the use of gas. Clearly parts of the chamber were hermetically sealed, as opposed to the entire chamber itself. Not all of those listed were eye witnesses, some are secondary sources reporting hearsay

How does that evidence hundreds of thousands left the camp alive?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Hermetically sealed gas chambers ?

Post by Huntinger » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:06 pm

Nessie wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:49 pm
  • In volume, how much disturbed earth is there at TII? You can use any volume measurement and do do not need to be precise, you can give a range.
  • The witnesses who saw the engine itself either did not say what fuel it used, or they said it used gasoline.
  • There is no evidence at all that Fuchs or any other Nazi who gave details about the engine, was coerced.
  • Which is based in the faulty claim that all victims would immediately turn bright red at the time of their death.
  • You are ignoring that the gigantic lie would also need the cooperation of millions of Jews under Nazi captivity, who would remain hidden after being secretly transported out of the AR camps, to secret locations that could accommodate millions until they were secretly liberated by the Allies, who failed to report finding camps full of millions of Jews....
  • What is more incredible, that the Nazis worked out how to gas and cremate, or how to secretly transport and accommodate millions of people?
  • The hermetic claim is like the diesel claim. It over simplifies what the witnesses said and fails to note context and how some witnesses knew more about what happened than others.
Apart from the last point, the poster has deliberately tried to veer the thread off topic. The matter of the disturbed earth, the colorization and the coercion by the Soviets have all been covered on other threads. Once again there is the issue of transportation out of the camp which is appearing in almost every post. In this thread only the last point can be dealt with: the seals have been mentioned in all manner of execution, all of which have eye witnesses from the vacuuming, lobstering, vacuuming lobstering with some gassing, the lobstering and gassing together and finally gas. Frankly it is likely the latest morph is as much bollocks as the previous claims, though with vacuuming hermetic seals would definitely be necessary, not so much with the steaming, unless the steam was meant to displace the oxygen and not just cook jude. But while they were cooking and eye witnesses swear they were cooked no seals would be necessary as the steam would displace the air as it moves through the cracks.
Perhaps the Germans wanted Jude pressure cooked, would have been better meat that way to feed the dogs.
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Re: Hermetically sealed gas chambers ?

Post by Turnagain » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:25 pm

Nessie wrote:
Witnesses describe attempts to pump air out of the chambers and then the use of gas. Clearly parts of the chamber were hermetically sealed, as opposed to the entire chamber itself. Not all of those listed were eye witnesses, some are secondary sources reporting hearsay
Nope, witnesses describe how the air WAS evacuated from the chamber and the victims died from asphyxiation. No "attempt" about it. That weasel dodge is a FAIL, Nessie.
How does that evidence hundreds of thousands left the camp alive?
There is PROOF that deportees arrived at Treblinka, stayed for varying lengths of time and were sent to other destinations. That is EVIDENCE that Treblinka functioned as a transit camp. You simply deny that with your cockamamie "selected for work upon arrival" theory. They transited through Malkinia or Timbuktu or someplace else. That's in your alternate universe, Nessie. In the real world, the deportees were sent to Treblinka, stayed for a while and left with other deportees.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Hermetically sealed gas chambers ?

Post by Nessie » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:33 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:25 pm
Nessie wrote:
Witnesses describe attempts to pump air out of the chambers and then the use of gas. Clearly parts of the chamber were hermetically sealed, as opposed to the entire chamber itself. Not all of those listed were eye witnesses, some are secondary sources reporting hearsay
Nope, witnesses describe how the air WAS evacuated from the chamber and the victims died from asphyxiation. No "attempt" about it. That weasel dodge is a FAIL, Nessie.
Not all of those you quoted was an eye witness. Go through Kon, Skarzyński, Grossmann, Donat and Wiernik and show who was an actual eye witness, who was reporting herasay and what they did and saw at the gas chambers, if they worked there at all.
How does that evidence hundreds of thousands left the camp alive?
There is PROOF that deportees arrived at Treblinka, stayed for varying lengths of time and were sent to other destinations. That is EVIDENCE that Treblinka functioned as a transit camp. You simply deny that with your cockamamie "selected for work upon arrival" theory. They transited through Malkinia or Timbuktu or someplace else. That's in your alternate universe, Nessie. In the real world, the deportees were sent to Treblinka, stayed for a while and left with other deportees.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
So, their descriptions of how those locked inside the chambers died does not evidence your claim TII was a transit camp. Your evidence TII was a transit camp is based on the testimony of people who say they were selected to work and those not selected remained behind at the camp.

There are witnesses from the few thousand selected to work. Why are there no witnesses from the hundreds of thousands not selected to work?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Hermetically sealed gas chambers ?

Post by Huntinger » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:39 pm

Nessie wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:33 pm
  1. Witnesses describe attempts to pump air out of the chambers and then the use of gas. Clearly parts of the chamber were hermetically sealed, as opposed to the entire chamber itself. Not all of those listed were eye witnesses, some are secondary sources reporting hearsay
  2. Not all of those you quoted was an eye witness. Go through Kon, Skarzyński, Grossmann, Donat and Wiernik and show who was an actual eye witness, who was reporting herasay and what they did and saw at the gas chambers, if they worked there at all.
    How does that evidence hundreds of thousands left the camp alive?
  3. So, their descriptions of how those locked inside the chambers died does not evidence your claim TII was a transit camp. Your evidence TII was a transit camp is based on the testimony of people who say they were selected to work and those not selected remained behind at the camp.
  4. There are witnesses from the few thousand selected to work. Why are there no witnesses from the hundreds of thousands not selected to work?
This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Could the poster explain why he is attempting to derail the thread please. All of the above points are on other threads. The thread has morphed deliberately from seals to witnesses.
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Re: Hermetically sealed gas chambers ?

Post by Turnagain » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:00 pm

Nessie wrote:
Not all of those you quoted was an eye witness. Go through Kon, Skarzyński, Grossmann, Donat and Wiernik and show who was an actual eye witness, who was reporting herasay and what they did and saw at the gas chambers, if they worked there at all.
Nope, YOU go through that list and show which witnesses were eyewitnesses. Your claim, your proof. Let's see it.
There are witnesses from the few thousand selected to work.
Name and quote the witnesses who said that they had been selected for work. What about the witnesses who said that they spent at least a night in Treblinka before being sent to other destinations? What about the witnesses who DIDN'T say anything about being "selected for work"? Oh, that's right, those witnesses were sent to Malkinia or Timbuktu or "someplace else".

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Hermetically sealed gas chambers ?

Post by DasPrussian » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:03 pm

been-there wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:32 pm

No. A fairer and more reasonable assumption to make would be that they never saw a homicidal gas chamber.
Well if you could provide something credible that would demonstrate this, then it might go some way in making it a fair assumption. Why don't you go through each witness that I have used and explain why you believe that they did not see a homicidal gas chamber ? Here is the list :

1) Shimon Goldberg
2) Eli Rosenberg
3) Abram Goldfarb
4) Yankel Wiernik

been-there wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:32 pm
A fairer and more reasonable assumption to make would be that they made up lies that out of their ignorance they didn't know were obviously impractical and/or impossible.
So according to you, these witnesses who mentioned vents in the roof, which was required in order to make the gassing possible, lied because vents made gassing impossible !!!!!!!!! Yeah, cos that makes sense doesn't it ? You obviously are one hell of a confused individual, aren't you ? :? :?
been-there wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:32 pm
Lies, that — together with the lack of disturbed earth, for their lies of hundreds of thousands of jews buried in mass-graves; and their lies about mass-murder weapons of diesel exhaust; and coerced confessions of captured non-existent tank and uboat engines; and their lies about the gassed victims displaying biologically improbable discolourisations — all converges. Taken together, these lies point to the more credible convergence-of-evidence conclusion: viz. that the obvious occam's-razor conclusion is that the mass-gassing allegation and eye-witness testimony is a gigantic lie.
All the above perceived 'problems' with the death camp/gassing episode have been dealt with and explained. Your memory is either really bad, or you are deliberately ignoring them as they do not suit your agenda and 'psychotic belief system' .
been-there wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:32 pm
The hermetically sealed chambers is just one small but obvious part of a tissue of anti-German — and therefore RACIST — LIES!!!

There. Do you understand now? :)
Well considering this thread is all about the gas chambers not being hermetically sealed, and I have produced credible corroborating evidence that backs up my claim, then no more needs to be said on the matter, does it ?

No, I do not understand or agree with your flawed logic, or equally flawed interpretation of events. It is bordering on insanity.
been-there wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:32 pm
And as for this:
DP wrote “Why anyone would deliberately lie about such a thing?”
:lol:
Oh boy! :? :roll:
You haven't explained why the witness would be thinking " right, I know the gas chambers didn't exist, and it was only a shower room I saw, but if I claim that they were hermetically sealed, just like the doors that I saw, then the judge is bound to believe me" !! How does that even work ?????

So if the witnesses just said "the doors were hermetically sealed" , you would have no issue with that , yes ? But because some added that the whole room was hermetically sealed, then that's a problem and it makes them a liar ????? Wow, that's some pretty mental stuff, nowotimean ?
Last edited by DasPrussian on Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hermetically sealed gas chambers ?

Post by DasPrussian » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:09 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:47 pm

Plus there's the testimony of Rosenberg, Bomba, Rajchman et al. but that's all swept under the rug. One of the advantages enjoyed by the hoaxers is that among all of the conflicting tales of the holyhoax, one can almost always find a "witness" to support even the most outlandish claims. Thus DP triumphantly shrieks, "Eureka, I have found someone who possibly claims that there were holes in the roof". Rosenberg's drawing of windows turns out to be hermetically sealed observation windows? Oopsies! We'll just sorta' forget about that. As for the rest of the witnesses, they just made a (heh-heh) little "mistake". They might have said the gas/vacuum chambers were hermetically sealed but they obviously just meant the doors, the vents, and the observation windows but what would they know? The question remains, "How do you pump the air out of a chamber if it isn't sealed" and "Why wouldn't that collapse a conventionally built brick building"?

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
You haven't expalined the testimony of Abram Goldfarb , a prisoner who helped build the gas chamber . Lets remind you what he said :

In each chamber there is one opening in the ceiling. And it is covered by a net."

"For removal of the gas from the chamber there was a separate opening in the roof."

You havent even touched on Shimon Goldberg , who I mentioned in my original list of evidence.

Whats up Turnagain, why are you ignoring the evidence ?
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Re: Hermetically sealed gas chambers ?

Post by Turnagain » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:19 pm

Das Prussian wrote:
Whats up Turnagain, why are you ignoring the evidence ?
Goldfarb is one witness who claims that there were openings in the roof. Bomba, Rajchman, Wiernik and Rosenberg all claim that the gas/vacuum chambers were hermetically sealed. Why are you ignoring that evidence, DP? How do you pump the air out of a chamber if it isn't sealed? BTW, Wiernik also helped to build the new gas chamber.

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