Why did the Nazis excavate part of TII?

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Nessie
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Re: Why did the Nazis excavate part of TII?

Post by Nessie » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:29 pm

To find out why the Nazis excavated part of TII, we should start with no preconceived ideas. There should be no assumptions or suggestions about possibilities. There could be any one of many reasons why any excavation would take place, the number of potentials is too numerous to list.

The next step is evidence gathering. We should look for ALL evidence that pertains to what the Nazis were doing at TII. It is only possible to determine what happened with the evidence. Speculations are a waste of time. Even if evidence is contradictory, it still needs to be gathered and acknowledged. There is certainly no room for ignoring evidence because it points to a proof we may not like. It is also important to acknowledge what is not evidenced.

The next step is to piece the evidence together in the most rational and logical way. Occams Razor and the process of elimination should be considered. Any politics and opinions need to be put aside.

Only then is it possible to find out what happened.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Why did the Nazis excavate part of TII?

Post by Huntinger » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:38 pm

Nessie wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:29 pm
Only then is it possible to find out what happened.
Good, now as a preliminary for those people new, please start by giving evidence that part of TII was excavated. I am talking within the 24 acre perimeter and the time period this happened. No one wants to hear about dead Jude being thrown into pits etc, this is covered a million times else where, not the mention of mass graves. Were there road works going on in the area? Was this simply an extension of the gravel pits at TI. This needs to be put into context if indeed it did happen.
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𝔊𝔢𝔥𝔢𝔦𝔪𝔢 𝔲𝔫𝔡 𝔖𝔱𝔞𝔞𝔱𝔰𝔭𝔬𝔩𝔦𝔷𝔢𝔦 𝔣𝔲̈𝔯 𝔡𝔢𝔫 𝔖𝔦𝔠𝔥𝔢𝔯𝔥𝔢𝔦𝔱𝔰𝔡𝔦𝔢𝔫𝔰𝔱

Turnagain
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Re: Why did the Nazis excavate part of TII?

Post by Turnagain » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:50 pm

Riding Nessie's merry-go-round and dancing to his tune is of very dubious value, Hunt. He has a limitless supply of "what ifs" and "coulda, woulda, shoulda". His "what if there was an outlet pipe" morphs into, "there's evidence of an outlet pipe" and so on. What is seen in a propaganda flick becomes "evidence" that ~850,000 Jews were cremated. Testimony by credible eyewitnesses that they transited through Treblinka becomes mere "selections to work" with no evidentiary value.

Evidence contrary to the holyhoax can't exist, therefore it doesn't exist. If it happened it was possible. Trying to deal with such religious fanaticism on a rational basis simply isn't in the cards. I, for one, am getting off the merry-go-round. I've spent enough time going in circles with an irrational fanatic. However, suit yourself. I suppose that someone should deal with him.

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Re: Why did the Nazis excavate part of TII?

Post by Nessie » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:16 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:50 pm
Riding Nessie's merry-go-round and dancing to his tune is of very dubious value, Hunt. He has a limitless supply of "what ifs" and "coulda, woulda, shoulda". His "what if there was an outlet pipe" morphs into, "there's evidence of an outlet pipe" and so on. What is seen in a propaganda flick becomes "evidence" that ~850,000 Jews were cremated. Testimony by credible eyewitnesses that they transited through Treblinka becomes mere "selections to work" with no evidentiary value.

Evidence contrary to the holyhoax can't exist, therefore it doesn't exist. If it happened it was possible. Trying to deal with such religious fanaticism on a rational basis simply isn't in the cards. I, for one, am getting off the merry-go-round. I've spent enough time going in circles with an irrational fanatic. However, suit yourself. I suppose that someone should deal with him.
To stop the merry go round of I present evidence and you discuss it, why don't we change things around? You present the evidence. You have already said "digging some graves for those who died in transit or while at Treblinka", so how about you present the evidence for that?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Why did the Nazis excavate part of TII?

Post by Turnagain » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:29 pm

OK, Nessie, here's your chance to shine. I presented proof that Wiernik's and the Laponder models of Treblinka were impossible. From that I concluded that Wiernik didn't see any mass graves at Treblinka. Disprove that.

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Re: Why did the Nazis excavate part of TII?

Post by rollo the ganger » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:43 pm

I agree with Turnagain that there is no proof the pictures of the drag-lines are at T2 but regardless, if any "excavation" was done there it was to dig latrine pits, garbage and trash pits, ground leveling and clearing for barracks, other buildings and bush clearing.

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Re: Why did the Nazis excavate part of TII?

Post by Turnagain » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:51 pm

Buh...buh...but the EVIDENCE, Rollo.

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Re: Why did the Nazis excavate part of TII?

Post by rollo the ganger » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:08 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:51 pm
Buh...buh...but the EVIDENCE, Rollo.
Yes, CSC did find a shark's tooth.

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Re: Why did the Nazis excavate part of TII?

Post by Huntinger » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:46 am

Turnagain wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:29 pm
OK, Nessie, here's your chance to shine. I presented proof that Wiernik's and the Laponder models of Treblinka were impossible. From that I concluded that Wiernik didn't see any mass graves at Treblinka. Disprove that.
I am prepared to listen to Nessie, providing he is not just looking for confirming evidence of mass graves. It is possible the excavations if there were any were for a different purpose, perhaps similar to the use of the rocks from the Quarry at TI. I will read the eye witness statements etc, but this needs to be corroborated with more. I hope this does not fall into another he said, she said
spiral of nothingness. Shine Nessie, take your time.
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Re: Why did the Nazis excavate part of TII?

Post by Nessie » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:57 am

Turnagain wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:29 pm
OK, Nessie, here's your chance to shine. I presented proof that Wiernik's and the Laponder models of Treblinka were impossible. From that I concluded that Wiernik didn't see any mass graves at Treblinka. Disprove that.
Yours is an attempt at a logical argument. Your argument is because the models are flawed due to the scale of the graves and piles of earth, therefore Wiernik did not see mass graves. That only works as a premise and conclusion if the only way to make a perfectly scaled model is to have been at the camp and if a model is made that is not perfectly to scale, the only possible cause is the maker did not see the actual graves. Peter Laponder was a model maker who was never at TII and he based his model on Wiernik's.

The Wiernik model was built in 1956, 13 years after he had been at TII. Here is a photo of it and we can clearly see it was not made to scale in many ways.

Image

http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh/notebo ... g&site=gfh

The building in the centre is the gas chamber, look at it compared to the guard towers and trees. The steps on the guard tower show it was built to a far larger scale that the buildings. The trees are to an even larger scale. The graves are huge and the earth piled up is very narrow and high.

Is that lack of scale due to Wiernik not being at TII? Or could it be because he was not concerned about 100% accurate scale? Or could it be because he lacked model making skills?

There are various reasons why Wiernik did not make his model to scale and to claim it was because he did not see the graves is to ignore all the other reasons. It is not logical to conclude one from the other, it is a non sequitur to argue scale proves Wiernik did not see the graves.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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