Been There's 'Formal' Gassing Engine Thread

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Turnagain
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Re: Been There's 'Formal' Gassing Engine Thread

Post by Turnagain » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:00 am

Nessie wrote:
You accept that the Germans could get the gas chambers to work and that Wiernik describes a system of pipes that circulated gas from the engine to various chambers, with hermetic seals to stop leaks from the doors and vent caps.

Your objection is that the Germans could not have figured out how to deal with the pressure caused by pumping in the exhaust gas. I would suggest it was dealt with by the system of pipes and that the engine was only run for a few minutes, enough to raise the CO level to fatal.
No, I do NOT accept that the Germans could get the gas chamber as described by Wiernik to work. They no doubt COULD have built a functional gas chamber but the alleged gas chamber described by Wiernik et al. is an impossibility. Wiernik describes the gas chamber as having three (3) chambers or rooms. Each chamber had an inflow pipe that was connected to the IC engine. A "system of pipes that circulated gas from the engine to various chambers" is either a figment of your imagination or a hallucination. Your claim that the Germans had some method for dealing with the pressure and only ran the engine for a few minutes is spurious. The witnesses uniformly claim that the engine ran for 20-30 minutes. Neither does it explain how the air was pumped out of the gas chamber as described by the Soviets, Bomba and Rajchman.

Just as Wiernik's depiction of the graves and stockpiles of ex in his model proves that he didn't see any such graves at Treblinka, his description of the alleged gas chambers proves that he didn't see any gas chambers at Treblinka.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Been There's 'Formal' Gassing Engine Thread

Post by Nessie » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:10 am

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:00 am
Nessie wrote:
You accept that the Germans could get the gas chambers to work and that Wiernik describes a system of pipes that circulated gas from the engine to various chambers, with hermetic seals to stop leaks from the doors and vent caps.

Your objection is that the Germans could not have figured out how to deal with the pressure caused by pumping in the exhaust gas. I would suggest it was dealt with by the system of pipes and that the engine was only run for a few minutes, enough to raise the CO level to fatal.
No, I do NOT accept that the Germans could get the gas chamber as described by Wiernik to work. They no doubt COULD have built a functional gas chamber...
Which means logically all you have done is prove Wiernik was either wrong or he lied. You have not proved there cannot have been a gas chamber at TII.
... but the alleged gas chamber described by Wiernik et al. is an impossibility. Wiernik describes the gas chamber as having three (3) chambers or rooms. Each chamber had an inflow pipe that was connected to the IC engine. A "system of pipes that circulated gas from the engine to various chambers" is either a figment of your imagination or a hallucination.
No, it based on Wiernik's use of the term pipes, which is plural, there was more than one pipe into each gas chamber.
Your claim that the Germans had some method for dealing with the pressure and only ran the engine for a few minutes is spurious. The witnesses uniformly claim that the engine ran for 20-30 minutes.
The witnesses claim that it took 20-30 minutes for those inside to die. That does not mean the engine ran for that time. Wiernik said;

"The chamber was filled, the motor turned on and connected with the inflow pipes and, within 25 minutes at the most, all lay stretched out dead or, to be more accurate, were standing up dead." He also said "These handsome Jews were not permitted an easy death. Only small quantities of gas were let into the chambers, so that their agony lasted through the night."

Please quote a witness who states that the engine ran for 20-30 minutes.
Neither does it explain how the air was pumped out of the gas chamber as described by the Soviets, Bomba and Rajchman.
That was wrong, air was not pumped out.
Just as Wiernik's depiction of the graves and stockpiles of ex in his model proves that he didn't see any such graves at Treblinka, his description of the alleged gas chambers proves that he didn't see any gas chambers at Treblinka.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
You cannot call Wiernik a liar and then use him as your prime witness. Just think of the laughter in court as you produce a witness to evidence your case and then start to call him a liar and question if he was even there!!!! Come on! Stop being so stupid :roll:
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Been There's 'Formal' Gassing Engine Thread

Post by Turnagain » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:58 am

Nessie wrote:
Which means logically all you have done is prove Wiernik was either wrong or he lied. You have not proved there cannot have been a gas chamber at TII.
There is nothing logical about your statement, Nessie. Wiernik et al. lied about seeing any gas chambers at Treblinka. Therefore there weren't any gas chambers at Treblinka.
No, it based on Wiernik's use of the term pipes, which is plural, there was more than one pipe into each gas chamber.
You either lack the ability to understand written English or you're hallucinating.
The witnesses claim that it took 20-30 minutes for those inside to die. That does not mean the engine ran for that time. Wiernik said;

"The chamber was filled, the motor turned on and connected with the inflow pipes and, within 25 minutes at the most, all lay stretched out dead or, to be more accurate, were standing up dead." He also said "These handsome Jews were not permitted an easy death. Only small quantities of gas were let into the chambers, so that their agony lasted through the night."

Please quote a witness who states that the engine ran for 20-30 minutes.
Show how long it would take the gassing engine to provide a LC 100 of CO in the original three room gas chamber. Assume 70 cubic meters of space available for the exhaust gases after the gas chamber was filled with victims. Then explain how the "handsome Jews" managed to survive through the night in the hermetically sealed gas chamber with or without any gas. Then produce a witness who says that the gassing engine operated for only a few minutes.

The BT series tanks were the smallest and most obsolete tanks used by the Soviets in the Finnish war and against the Germans. It had a 27 liter V-12 gasoline engine. At a modest 1,500 rpm it would produce 20.25 cubic meters of exhaust per minute. The original three room gas chamber had a volume of 142.5 cubic meters. If half of that space were taken up by the victims there would be 71.25 m^3 of space left. The BT tank engine would raise the pressure inside the gas chamber by 1 atm in 3.5 minutes. One atm is more than enough to collapse a brick building so how long did the engine operate without stalling or collapsing the building?

No fuzzy speculations, Nessie, I want to see some calculations and some hard evidence for your claims.
That was wrong, air was not pumped out.
Uh-huh, the witnesses just made a (heh-heh) little "mistake". Nessie's go to excuse when all else fails.
You cannot call Wiernik a liar and then use him as your prime witness. Just think of the laughter in court as you produce a witness to evidence your case and then start to call him a liar and question if he was even there!!!! Come on! Stop being so stupid :roll:
Oh, hell no, no attorney has ever called a hostile witness to the stand and then proceeded to prove him a liar. Nah, he would be laughed out of court for even trying something like that. No real attorney would ever think of trying to impeach the credibility of a witness. Geez, that would be so stooooopid!

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Re: Been There's 'Formal' Gassing Engine Thread

Post by Nessie » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:06 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:58 am
Nessie wrote:
Which means logically all you have done is prove Wiernik was either wrong or he lied. You have not proved there cannot have been a gas chamber at TII.
There is nothing logical about your statement, Nessie. Wiernik et al. lied about seeing any gas chambers at Treblinka. Therefore there weren't any gas chambers at Treblinka....
1 - you have not proved Wiernik lied
2 - you have not proved "et al" also lied, indeed, you have hardly read any of the rest of the witnesses
3 - even if you prove witnesses lied, that is not the same as proving no gas chambers.

You clearly do not understand logic, or indeed evidencing.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Been There's 'Formal' Gassing Engine Thread

Post by Huntinger » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:37 pm

Nessie wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:06 pm
1 - you have not proved Wiernik lied
2 - you have not proved "et al" also lied, indeed, you have hardly read any of the rest of the witnesses
3 - even if you prove witnesses lied, that is not the same as proving no gas chambers.

You clearly do not understand logic, or indeed evidencing.
It would appear the infamous poster of ill repute has attempted to derail this thread about the various gassing claims and the alleged workings of the gaskammers to whether or not someone lied or not.

If an eyewitness to the alleged gassing of himself such as Eliyahu Yokel at Terezin was reported, as it was, it is quite possible to excuse the young man due to all the jüdischer Klatsch he was hearing and so was mistaken. Being confused and mistaken is different to the deliberate telling of distortions and expedience with reality. Let look at the claims made from Yankel Wiernik:
  • "All looked yellow from the gas..."
  • "People were often kept in the gas chambers overnight ...."
  • "It often happened that an arm or a leg fell off when we tied straps around them in order to drag the bodies away"
  • "as many as 30,000 people were gassed in one day...."
  • "the bodies of women were used for kindling the fires"
  • "The corpses were soaked in gasoline. This entailed considerable expense and the results were inadequate; the male corpses simply would not burn"
  • "10,000 to 12,000 corpses were cremated at one time. The result was one huge inferno, which from the distance looked like a volcano breaking through the earth's crust to belch forth fire and lava"
  • "The inmates were forced to sing Jewish songs ..."
  • Wiernik claimed he saw a naked Jewish girl leap over a three-meter (9 ft.) high barbed wire fence, wrench the rifle out of the hands of a pursuing guard, shoot two other guards before she was overpowered.
  • He stated that 900,000 Jews were murdered, buried, exhumed, then cremated at Treblinka & all traces disappeared.
  • Wiernik claimed that up to 1200 people could fit into an area 7 X 7 m, in other words more than 20 people per sq. meter!!
  • According to Wiernik the 7 X 7 m (49 sq.m.) gas chamber that held 1200 people was an improvement over a previous gas chamber that was 25 sq. meters and could hold 500 people.
  • He claimed that bodies burned on their own once lit.


Apart from the singing of songs, the rest of the claims taken together makes this Jüdischer Conman a liar, a cheat, a fraud and a disgusting person.
Bier trinken und das Leben in vollen Zügen genießen.

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Re: Been There's 'Formal' Gassing Engine Thread

Post by Turnagain » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:46 pm

Nessie wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:06 pm
Turnagain wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:58 am
Nessie wrote:
Which means logically all you have done is prove Wiernik was either wrong or he lied. You have not proved there cannot have been a gas chamber at TII.
There is nothing logical about your statement, Nessie. Wiernik et al. lied about seeing any gas chambers at Treblinka. Therefore there weren't any gas chambers at Treblinka....
1 - you have not proved Wiernik lied
2 - you have not proved "et al" also lied, indeed, you have hardly read any of the rest of the witnesses
3 - even if you prove witnesses lied, that is not the same as proving no gas chambers.

You clearly do not understand logic, or indeed evidencing.
Yep, according to Nessie, evidence of the holyhoax being a fraud can't exist. Therefore it doesn't exist. In Nessie's mind, his religion triumphs uber alles.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Been There's 'Formal' Gassing Engine Thread

Post by Huntinger » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:14 pm

Wiernik on the gaskammers
"When I arrived at the camp, three gas chambers were already in operation; another ten were added while I was there. A gas chamber measured 5 x 5 meters and was about 1.90 meters high. The outlet on the roof had a hermetic cap. The chamber was equipped with a gas pipe inlet and a baked tile floor slanting towards the platform. The brick building which housed the gas chambers was separated from Camp No. 1 by a wooden wall. This wooden wall and the brick wall of the building together formed a corridor which was 80 centimeters taller than the building. The chambers were connected with the corridor by a hermetically fitted iron door leading into each of the chambers. On the side of Camp No. 2 the chambers were connected by a platform four meters wide, which- ran alongside all three chambers. The platform was about 80 centimeters above ground level. There was also a hermetically fitted wooden door on this side.
Each chamber had a door facing Camp No. 2 (1.80 by 2.50 meters), which could be opened only from the outside by lifting it with iron supports and was closed by iron hooks set into the sash frames, and by wooden bolts. The victims were led into the chambers through the doors leading from the corridor, while the remains of the gassed victims were dragged out through the doors facing Camp No. 2. The power plant operated alongside these chambers, supplying Camps 1 and 2 with electric current. A motor taken from a dismantled Soviet tank stood in the power plant. This motor was used to pump the gas, which was let into the chambers by connecting the motor with the inflow pipes. The speed with which death overcame the helpless victims depended on the quantity of combustion gas admitted into the chamber at one time."
"Between 450 and 500 persons were crowded into a chamber measuring 25 square meters. Parents carried their children in their arms in the vain hope that this would save their children from death. On the way to their doom, they were pushed and beaten with rifle butts and with Ivan's gas pipe. Dogs were set upon them, barking, biting and tearing at them. To escape the blows and the dogs, the crowd rushed to its death, pushing into the chamber, the stronger ones shoving the weaker ones ahead of them. The bedlam lasted only a short while, for soon the doors were slammed shut. The chamber was filled, the motor turned on and connected with the inflow pipes and, within 25 minutes at the most, all lay stretched out dead or, to be more accurate, were standing up dead. Since there was not an inch of free space, they just leaned against each other."
"It turned out that we were building ten additional gas chambers, more spacious than the old ones, 7 by 7 meters or about 50 square meters. As many as 1,000 to 1,200 persons could be crowded into one gas chamber."


It would seem accepting the crap above that if one soviet tank engine could kill 1500 people in 3 gaskammers in 20 mins, then it would take 2.7 hours to do the same for the 12 000 in the ten new gaskammers.
It also begs the question in the initial architectural design why there were 3 gaskammers and not just one large single one, this would hasten death as all of the people suffocated in the hermetically sealed room by using up the oxygen in there.
An iron door to the entrance to the gaskammer but a wooden one to the rear? Brick building that would explode soon as exhaust gases were pumped in producing over pressure or underpressure. Seems all rather far fetched to me.
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Re: Been There's 'Formal' Gassing Engine Thread

Post by Nessie » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:31 am

Weirnik, Fuchs et al provide no evidence other than mass killings. You cannot use them to try and evidence no mass killings. At most you can claim they lied about mass killings, but that does not evidence no mass killings.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Been There's 'Formal' Gassing Engine Thread

Post by Turnagain » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:36 am

Nessie wrote:
You have just added another fallacy to your list, strawman.
For you, no evidence showing that the holyhoax is a fraud can exist. Therefore, in your universe, it doesn't exist. Any witness who claims an impossibility is either mistaken or is lying. That or you simply fantasize an alternative. Your "evidence" is the sacred words of Lukaszkiewicz and the holy relics of Sturdy-Colls. You are not rational, Nessie.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Been There's 'Formal' Gassing Engine Thread

Post by Trolljegeren » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:39 am

Turnagain wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:36 am
Nessie wrote:
You have just added another fallacy to your list, strawman.
For you, no evidence showing that the holyhoax is a fraud can exist. Therefore, in your universe, it doesn't exist. Any witness who claims an impossibility is either mistaken or is lying. That or you simply fantasize an alternative. Your "evidence" is the sacred words of Lukaszkiewicz and the holy relics of Sturdy-Colls. You are not rational, Nessie.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
Seriously the poster Nessie should not be posting here, it has nothing to add at all except the same rhetoric as a year or so ago. It is like he is copying and pasting choice phrases with no thought.

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