Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

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Turnagain
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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Turnagain » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:05 pm

Nessie wrote:
You discuss the evidence for gassings, graves and cremains. You then claim that evidence is imagined and therefore no gassings, TII was a transit camp. That is a logically, scientifically and empirically flawed argument.
I do NOT "claim" that the evidence is imagined. The statements, the testimony of the witnesses are demonstrable lies. What they claim to have witnessed are impossibilities. They are impossibilities under ALL circumstances. That is NOT a flawed argument.

That Treblinka was a transit camp is a logical possibility. It could have served some other unknown purpose. What is known is that Treblinka did NOT serve as an extermination facility.
You discuss the evidence for gassings, graves and cremains. You then claim that evidence is imagined and therefore no gassings, TII was a transit camp. That is a logically, scientifically and empirically flawed argument.
No, I discuss whether the testimony given by the witnesses is possible or impossible. Your attempts to obfuscate that isn't going to fly, Nessie. Their testimony is false, therefore the events that they describe didn't happen. You can turn and squirm and weasel dodge forever but nobody was murdered in hermetically sealed gas chambers, buried in giant mass graves, exhumed and cremated on a magic Jew barbeque at Treblinka.

People could have died in transit to Treblinka, been executed for unknown infractions or died from disease or old age while at Treblinka. That is almost a certainty. Evidence of that should be found. Evidence of ~850,000 people being cremated shouldn't be found and hasn't been found. No proof for the giant mass graves as claimed by the eyewitnesses has ever been found. Evidence that they don't exist is shown by Wiernik's model of the camp.
An attempt was made to equate work selections with it being a transit camp, but that failed.
There is evidence that deportees left the camp for other destinations from at least two (2) sources, the USC film archives and the USHMM. That is evidence, not proof but evidence that Treblinka functioned as a transit camp. Your opinion of that evidence doesn't mean jack squat, Nessie.
You need evidence to prove your claims and that is simple to find.
Your attempt to change the burden of proof to revisionists is laughable. Your claim that nobody would object to revisionists core sampling the Treblinka site or even engaging in a noninvasive investigation is beyond ludicrous.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Nessie
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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Nessie » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:14 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:56 pm
Nessie wrote:
The evidence states that yes they were.
So, they were killed in the hermetically sealed gas chamber, buried in the nonexistent mass graves and cremated on the magic Jew barbeque. Why do you expect people to believe such drivel?
Because it is what is evidenced to have happened and no alternative is evidenced.

Why do you expect people to ignore what is evidenced and believe in something that is not?
Yes it is.
No, it isn't.
Yes it is, when you have claimed they were not murdered and they left the camp.

Stop chopping up what I have said and try and argue against my actual words.
To do that, you need evidence, not arguments against the evidence.
In Nessie's universe, disproving the claims of the plaintiffs isn't allowed. Revisionists must conform to his dictates.
No, in the world of academia, all disciplines, to prove something did or did not happen, you need evidence. Deniers just pretend they are defence lawyers to try and excuse themselves from having to evidence their claims. History is not determined by lawyers in a court. It is determined by evidence and investigation using the historical method of enquiry.
You have not proved them to be impossible under any and all circumstances. All you have done is repeat some known and some possible flaws in some of the witness testimony. You ignore a number of other witnesses and the physical evidence evidence.
The hermetically sealed gas chamber, the mass graves and the magic Jew barbeque are impossibilities in this universe.
Your universe. In the normal universe it is perfectly possible to build gas chambers utilising hermetic seals, to dig large grave and mass cremate people.
Perhaps not so much in your universe, Nessie. If you have witnesses, bring them forth.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
I have quoted the list of witnesses for TII on numerous occasions. You have no witnesses to TII being a transit camp. That is why you ignore my posts pointing out that even though only a few hundred worked at TII, we have witnesses who worked there. Even though only a few thousand were selected to work on arrival and left TII, we have witnesses who were selected. But of the c850,000 deniers claim were transited through TII, there are no witnesses.

Why, when according to you there are c850,000 witnesses to TII being a transit camp can you not find any?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Nessie » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:21 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:05 pm
Nessie wrote:
You discuss the evidence for gassings, graves and cremains. You then claim that evidence is imagined and therefore no gassings, TII was a transit camp. That is a logically, scientifically and empirically flawed argument.
I do NOT "claim" that the evidence is imagined. The statements, the testimony of the witnesses are demonstrable lies. What they claim to have witnessed are impossibilities. They are impossibilities under ALL circumstances. That is NOT a flawed argument.
Yes it is, because you have not proved they lied. You have no evidence, instead you cherry pick a few witnesses, pick out what you think is not right and then you declare all the evidence as flawed. That is no logical.
That Treblinka was a transit camp is a logical possibility. It could have served some other unknown purpose. What is known is that Treblinka did NOT serve as an extermination facility.
List your evidence.

(Disputing the evidence for TII being a death camp is not evidence it was then something else).
You discuss the evidence for gassings, graves and cremains. You then claim that evidence is imagined and therefore no gassings, TII was a transit camp. That is a logically, scientifically and empirically flawed argument.
No, I discuss whether the testimony given by the witnesses is possible or impossible. Your attempts to obfuscate that isn't going to fly, Nessie. Their testimony is false, therefore the events that they describe didn't happen. You can turn and squirm and weasel dodge forever but nobody was murdered in hermetically sealed gas chambers, buried in giant mass graves, exhumed and cremated on a magic Jew barbeque at Treblinka.
You cannot logically, legally or scientifically use witnesses you call liars to evidence anything.
People could have died in transit to Treblinka, been executed for unknown infractions or died from disease or old age while at Treblinka. That is almost a certainty. Evidence of that should be found. Evidence of ~850,000 people being cremated shouldn't be found and hasn't been found. No proof for the giant mass graves as claimed by the eyewitnesses has ever been found. Evidence that they don't exist is shown by Wiernik's model of the camp.
It is only your opinion that the evidence of what has been found at TII can be dismissed. Your opinion is irrelevant.
An attempt was made to equate work selections with it being a transit camp, but that failed.
There is evidence that deportees left the camp for other destinations from at least two (2) sources, the USC film archives and the USHMM. That is evidence, not proof but evidence that Treblinka functioned as a transit camp. Your opinion of that evidence doesn't mean jack squat, Nessie.
No, it is evidence that like other AR camps, there were selections on arrival and some were selected to work. That is not my opinion, it is what is evidenced.
You need evidence to prove your claims and that is simple to find.
Your attempt to change the burden of proof to revisionists is laughable. Your claim that nobody would object to revisionists core sampling the Treblinka site or even engaging in a noninvasive investigation is beyond ludicrous.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
It is your job to evidence your claims about no cremains etc. Stop reversing the burden of proof by demanding I disprove your claims.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Huntinger » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:23 pm

Nessie wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:14 pm
No, in the world of academia, all disciplines, to prove something did or did not happen, you need evidence.
Utter crap, this person has never set foot in any intsitution except a prison by the sound of it. Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence. The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.
The case above is the same as:
God exists. Until you can prove otherwise, I will continue to believe that he does
Sheila: I know Elvis’ ghost is visiting me in my dreams.

Ron: Yeah, I don’t think that really is his ghost.

Sheila: Prove that it’s not!
𝕸𝖆𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊 𝕾𝖈𝖍𝖆̈𝖙𝖟𝖊 𝖐𝖆𝖓𝖓 𝖒𝖆𝖓 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖐𝖆𝖚𝖋𝖊𝖓.
𝕸𝖊𝖎𝖉𝖊 𝖉𝖊𝖓 𝕵𝖚𝖉𝖊𝖓

Turnagain
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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Turnagain » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:12 pm

Nessie wrote:
Because it is what is evidenced to have happened and no alternative is evidenced.

Why do you expect people to ignore what is evidenced and believe in something that is not?
Nessie claims to have "evidence" that the hermetically sealed gas chamber was functional. "If it happened, it was possible" is Nessie's so-called "evidence". Only in Nessie's universe.
Yes it is, when you have claimed they were not murdered and they left the camp.
Nope, nobody was murdered in the hermetically sealed gas chambers, buried in the nonexistent 10X25X50 meter mass graves or cremated on the magic Jew barbeque. There is unequivocal proof that deportees DID leave the camp alive and in good health.
No, in the world of academia, all disciplines, to prove something did or did not happen, you need evidence.
In that case, what do you consider to be evidence, Nessie? Define your terms. Be precise.
Your universe. In the normal universe it is perfectly possible to build gas chambers utilising hermetic seals, to dig large grave and mass cremate people.
Of course it's possible to build gas chambers, dig graves and cremate large numbers of people/animals. What isn't possible are the gas chambers, the graves and the method of cremation AS DESCRIBED BY THE ALLEGED EYEWITNESSES OF TREBLINKA. Your lame little weasel dodge doesn't fly, Nessie. Nessie can't stick to the plain, unvarnished truth and come up with a reasonable explanation for the claims of the alleged eyewitnesses to Treblinka. He has to turn and squirm, weasel dodge and lie in an attempt to make such impossibilities palatable. Tiresome drivel is tiresome.
Even though only a few thousand were selected to work on arrival and left TII, we have witnesses who were selected. But of the c850,000 deniers claim were transited through TII, there are no witnesses.

Why, when according to you there are c850,000 witnesses to TII being a transit camp can you not find any?
When all else fails, Nessie goes for the outright lie. Witnesses claim that they arrived at Treblinka, stayed there for varying lengths of time and left for other destinations. According to Nessie, that's a "selection" not transiting so that doesn't count. Nessie lies again with his, "...according to you there are c850,000 witnesses to TII being a transit camp...". I haven't ever claimed that there are ~850,000 thousand witnesses to Treblinka being a transit camp. That's ridiculous.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

Turnagain
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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Turnagain » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:20 pm

Nessie desperately tries to avoid the facts that nobody was murdered in the hermetically sealed gas chambers, buried in the nonexistent 10X25X50 meter mass graves or cremated on the magic Jew barbeque. He then tries to avoid the fact that deportees DID transit through Treblinka by claiming that being "selected for work" isn't evidence that deportees transited through Treblinka.

Show your proof of how the hermetically sealed gas chambers functioned. Show proof of how the mass graves were dug and the ex stockpiled. Show proof of how the magic Jew barbeque functioned. Until you do that,

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Mr. KnowItAll
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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Mr. KnowItAll » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:37 am

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:20 pm
Nessie desperately tries to avoid the facts that nobody was murdered in the hermetically sealed gas chambers, buried in the nonexistent 10X25X50 meter mass graves or cremated on the magic Jew barbeque. He then tries to avoid the fact that deportees DID transit through Treblinka by claiming that being "selected for work" isn't evidence that deportees transited through Treblinka.

Show your proof of how the hermetically sealed gas chambers functioned. Show proof of how the mass graves were dug and the ex stockpiled. Show proof of how the magic Jew barbeque functioned. Until you do that,

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
It's not logical to ignore all of the other evidence and just simply demand for specific evidence. Demanding specific requests to be met is not how academics, historians and scholars come to conclusions about a subject. What you're doing is using the one single proof fallacy and is no different to the following:

Image

Is there a reason why you are ignoring all of the evidence available which proves that the camps of Operation Reinhardt were extermination camps?
"It was the first time I had seen Hitler close at hand. Face and head of inferior type, cross-breed; low receding forehead, ugly nose, broad cheekbones, little eyes, dark hair. Expression not of a man exercising authority in perfect self-command, but of raving excitement. At the end an expression of satisfied egotism."

- Max von Gruber's description of Hitler at the Beer Hall Putsch trial in 1923

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Mr. KnowItAll » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:39 am

Huntinger wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:23 pm
Utter crap, this person has never set foot in any intsitution except a prison by the sound of it. Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence. The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.
The case above is the same as:
God exists. Until you can prove otherwise, I will continue to believe that he does
Sheila: I know Elvis’ ghost is visiting me in my dreams.

Ron: Yeah, I don’t think that really is his ghost.

Sheila: Prove that it’s not!
That's not how the burden of proof works. If you're making the claim that "God exists" then it is up to you to provide evidence for that claim.

Christopher Hitchens famously stated:
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
"It was the first time I had seen Hitler close at hand. Face and head of inferior type, cross-breed; low receding forehead, ugly nose, broad cheekbones, little eyes, dark hair. Expression not of a man exercising authority in perfect self-command, but of raving excitement. At the end an expression of satisfied egotism."

- Max von Gruber's description of Hitler at the Beer Hall Putsch trial in 1923

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Huntinger
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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Huntinger » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:58 am

Mr. KnowItAll wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:39 am
Huntinger wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:23 pm
Utter crap, this person has never set foot in any intsitution except a prison by the sound of it. Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence. The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.
The case above is the same as:
God exists. Until you can prove otherwise, I will continue to believe that he does
Sheila: I know Elvis’ ghost is visiting me in my dreams.

Ron: Yeah, I don’t think that really is his ghost.

Sheila: Prove that it’s not!
That's not how the burden of proof works. If you're making the claim that "God exists" then it is up to you to provide evidence for that claim.

Christopher Hitchens famously stated:
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
This is a thread on the impossibilities of Treblinka not your assertions of what is regarded as evidence.
𝕸𝖆𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊 𝕾𝖈𝖍𝖆̈𝖙𝖟𝖊 𝖐𝖆𝖓𝖓 𝖒𝖆𝖓 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖐𝖆𝖚𝖋𝖊𝖓.
𝕸𝖊𝖎𝖉𝖊 𝖉𝖊𝖓 𝕵𝖚𝖉𝖊𝖓

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Mr. KnowItAll
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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Mr. KnowItAll » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:00 am

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:58 am
Mr. KnowItAll wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:39 am
Huntinger wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:23 pm
Utter crap, this person has never set foot in any intsitution except a prison by the sound of it. Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence. The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.
The case above is the same as:
God exists. Until you can prove otherwise, I will continue to believe that he does
Sheila: I know Elvis’ ghost is visiting me in my dreams.

Ron: Yeah, I don’t think that really is his ghost.

Sheila: Prove that it’s not!
That's not how the burden of proof works. If you're making the claim that "God exists" then it is up to you to provide evidence for that claim.

Christopher Hitchens famously stated:
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
This is a thread on the impossibilities of Treblinka not your assertions of what is regarded as evidence.
As people can see, you used an analogy about God existing and I showed that if you want to make a positive claim then it is up to you to prove that claim, that is how the burden of proof works.
"It was the first time I had seen Hitler close at hand. Face and head of inferior type, cross-breed; low receding forehead, ugly nose, broad cheekbones, little eyes, dark hair. Expression not of a man exercising authority in perfect self-command, but of raving excitement. At the end an expression of satisfied egotism."

- Max von Gruber's description of Hitler at the Beer Hall Putsch trial in 1923

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