Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

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Huntinger
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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Huntinger » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:12 pm

Nessie wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:17 pm
"Hence, the mass gassings with hydrogen cyanide (Zyklon B) in the supposed homicidal gas chambers of Auschwitz cannot have taken place as claimed by witnesses."
This thread is on Treblinka and here this poster is drunkenly waffling on about Auschwitz and Zb.

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Turnagain » Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:41 pm

Nessie wrote:
Like claims about diesel engines, the vacuum claim was made by those who did not work closely at the chambers and did not know exactly how they functioned.

Why do you need that explained to you time and time again?
Bomba and Rajchman were the two witnesses to the supposed vacuum chamber. Bomba worked inside the gas chamber cutting women's hair before the gassing/vacuum while Rajchman worked outside it pulling gold teeth from the corpses as they were unloaded from the gas chamber. That's about as close to the gas chambers as you can get.

Nessie wrote:
He should understand that all he has done is cast doubt on what the witnesses said. It is a leap to then conclude that under no circumstances did any gassings take place at the A-B kremas.
Nessie has come up with a brand new weasel dodge. Screw what those eyewitnesses said. They're forever effing up the holyhoax narrative. If it happened, it was possible. So there, take THAT, you evil deniers!

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Nessie » Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:54 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:41 pm
Nessie wrote:
Like claims about diesel engines, the vacuum claim was made by those who did not work closely at the chambers and did not know exactly how they functioned.

Why do you need that explained to you time and time again?
Bomba and Rajchman were the two witnesses to the supposed vacuum chamber. Bomba worked inside the gas chamber cutting women's hair before the gassing/vacuum while Rajchman worked outside it pulling gold teeth from the corpses as they were unloaded from the gas chamber. That's about as close to the gas chambers as you can get.
I cannot find a Bomba reference to use of a vacuum;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... bomba.html

and Rajchman is reported to have said;

https://codoh.com/library/document/1916/?lang=en#fn23

"The killings were carried out either by pumping out of the air or by introduction of CO [carbon monoxide]. Once, when fewer transports were arriving, the Germans conducted an experiment: They pumped out the air without introducing poison. When the doors opened after 48 hours, we found some living people inside."

As that article states, it is not clear which chamber he is referring to.
Nessie wrote:
He should understand that all he has done is cast doubt on what the witnesses said. It is a leap to then conclude that under no circumstances did any gassings take place at the A-B kremas.
Nessie has come up with a brand new weasel dodge. Screw what those eyewitnesses said. They're forever effing up the holyhoax narrative. If it happened, it was possible. So there, take THAT, you evil deniers!

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
You claim the witnesses lied about seeing gassings. You then claim they can be used to prove no gassings. You do not see the logical gap in your argument.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Huntinger » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:03 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:41 pm
Bomba and Rajchman were the two witnesses to the supposed vacuum chamber. Bomba worked inside the gas chamber cutting women's hair before the gassing/vacuum while Rajchman worked outside it pulling gold teeth from the corpses as they were unloaded from the gas chamber. That's about as close to the gas chambers as you can get.

Grossmann writes that there were three methods of
mass killing: gassing, scalding with hot steam, and suffocation by evacuation
of the death chamber by means of vacuum pumps.

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Huntinger » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:15 pm

The Floss method

The first bonfire was prepared the next day. Herbert Floss then revealed
his secret: all the bodies did not burn at the same rate; there were
good bodies and bad bodies, fire-resistant bodies and inflammable bodies.
The art consisted in using the good ones to burn the bad ones. According
to his investigations – and judging from the results, they were very thorough
– the old bodies burned better than the new ones, the fat ones better
than the thin ones, the women better than the men, and the children not as
well as the women but better than the men. It was evident that the ideal
body was the old body of a fat woman. Floss had these put aside. Then he
had the men and children sorted too. When a thousand bodies had been
dug up and sorted in this way, he proceeded to the loading, with the good
fuel underneath and the bad above. He refused gasoline and sent for wood.
His demonstration was going to be perfect. The wood was arranged under
the grill of the pyre in little piles which resembled camp fires. The moment
of truth had come. He was solemnly handed a box of matches. He bent
down, lit the first fire, then the others, and as the wood began to catch fire
he walked back with his odd gait to the group of officials who were waiting
a little way away.
The mounting flames began to lick at the bodies, gently at first, then
with a steady force like the flame of a blow torch. Everyone held his
breath, the Germans anxious and impatient, the prisoners dismayed and
terrified. Only Floss seemed relaxed; very sure of himself, he was muttering
abstractedly, ‘Tadellos, tadellos…’ The bodies burst into flames. Suddenly
the flames shot up, releasing a cloud of smoke, a deep roar arose, the
faces of the dead twisted with pain and the flesh crackled. The spectacle
had an infernal quality and even the S.S. men remained petrified for a few
moments, contemplating the marvel. Floss beamed. This fire was the finest
day of his life.
When they had recovered from their stupor, the Germans gave expression
to their joy and gratitude. Herbert Floss became a hero. An event like
this had to be celebrated in a worthy manner. The Germans sent for tables,
which were set up opposite the funeral pyre and covered with dozens of
bottles of liquor, wine and beer. The dying day reflected the high flames of
the funeral pyre, the sky glowed at the end of the plain where the sun was
disappearing with a show of fire.
At a nod from Lalka, the corks popped. An extraordinary party began.
The first toast was made to the Führer. The operators of the excavators
had returned to their machines. When the S.S. men raised their glasses
noisily, the excavators seemed to come to life and suddenly flung their long
jointed arms toward the sky in a throbbing and jolting Nazi salute. It was
like a signal; ten times the men raised their arms, each time shouting ‘Heil
Hitler.’ The manlike machines returned the salute of the machinelike men,
and the air rang with shouts of glory to the Führer. The party lasted until
the funeral pyre was entirely consumed. After the toasts came the songs,
savage and cruel, songs of hatred, songs of fury, songs of glory to Germany
the eternal.”

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Turnagain » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:54 pm

Nessie wrote:
I cannot find a Bomba reference to use of a vacuum;
Look harder then.
As that article states, it is not clear which chamber he is referring to.
So?
You claim the witnesses lied about seeing gassings. You then claim they can be used to prove no gassings. You do not see the logical gap in your argument.
You do not see the utter stupidity of your argument.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Huntinger » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:06 pm

In an edition of Informacja Bieżąca dated August
17, 1942, a mobile gas chamber is discussed
“After the departure of the steam engines, the Jews are forced to undress,
supposedly for the bath; then they are led into the gas chamber and
executed, whereupon they – sometimes still living – are buried in excavated
pits. The pits are excavated by machine; the gas chamber is mobile and
moves back and forth over the pits
. The camp strength amounted to 40,000
Jews on August 5, about 5,000 are executed daily. The liquidation is carried
out by Ukrainians under the leadership of SS men. The operation in
the Warsaw Ghetto is supposed to be completed by September of this
year.”

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Huntinger » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:14 pm

On September 8, 1942, the Informacja Bieżąca reported on the deployment
of an undefined gas with a delayed effect:
“The extermination of the Jews takes place entirely independently from
the events in the camp. The steam engine pushes the cars with the Jews under
the ramp, all in sequence. The Ukrainians pull the Jews out of the cars
and lead them to the ‘bath’ in the bathhouse. This is a building surrounded
by barbed wire. They enter in groups of 300 to 500 persons. Each group is
immediately locked up hermetically and gassed. Of course, this gas is not
immediately effective, for the Jews have to walk to the pits afterwards,
which are about ten to twenty meters away and 30 m deep. There they lose
consciousness and fall into the pits, and the excavator sprinkles a thin layer
of earth upon them. Then the next group follows.”
The idea of this propaganda is to suggest that the evil Nazees buried people alive. I guess the mobile gaskammer above would dispense with Jude walking to the pits to be buried alive.

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Huntinger » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:41 pm

rollo the ganger wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:01 pm
Witnesses claiming to have seen vacuum death chambers were either liars or incredibly stupid people.
One just hearsay witness was Rachel Auerbach, in her book "In the fields of Treblinka". Was never interned herself of course. She supposedly received her information from former inmates, wrote a work in the Yiddish language about the camp, which was published in 1979 in English by Alexander Donat.
Gas was costly and therefore had to be used economically.
At last, the doors were slammed shut.
The shift was ready to die.
The motor, installed in a workshop near the bathhouse, could be started
now. First, a suction pump was brought into play to draw the pure air from
the chamber. After that, the pipes to the reservoir of exhaust gas from the
motor could be opened.
‘A few minutes later,’ Jews who had worked in that part of the camp recalled,
‘we would hear terrible screams from that building.’ The screams
of human pain, terror and despair. At the last moment, it seems, when the
pumps started to suck out breathable air, all self-control broke, and there
was an outbreak of collective hysteria inside the gas chamber.
Later… in due time… all was quiet again…
Perhaps 25 to 45 minutes later, the chutes on the other side could be
opened and the corpses tumbled out. The bodies were naked; some of them
were white, others were blue and bloated.
Auerbach surprises her readers with trail-blazing scientific findings such as the discovery that blood “was found to be a first-class combustion material”

The main killing method was the "steam chambers
“The worst thing is death in Treblinka. By now, all know of Treblinka.
There they cook people alive.

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Mr. KnowItAll » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:17 pm

Turnagain, you have still failed to explain how you know for certain that mass graves don't exist at Treblinka when there hasn't been a single full investigation of the area. But, the short studies that have been carried out have all found evidence of mass murder - graves, body remains, building foundations with a wall, etc.

You deliberately ignore all of that evidence and use fallacies to support your arguments about the camp.

Also, you constantly ask the same questions about the camp, despite them having already been answered dozens upon dozens of times.
"It was the first time I had seen Hitler close at hand. Face and head of inferior type, cross-breed; low receding forehead, ugly nose, broad cheekbones, little eyes, dark hair. Expression not of a man exercising authority in perfect self-command, but of raving excitement. At the end an expression of satisfied egotism."

- Max von Gruber's description of Hitler at the Beer Hall Putsch trial in 1923

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