Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

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Turnagain
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Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Turnagain » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:04 pm

There are impossibilities such as the hermetically sealed gas chamber, if taken as claimed, point to the narrative of Treblinka being a "death camp"as false. Are there any reasonable/rational explanations to mitigate such anomalies? If one such supposed impossibility is proven true, is that enough to prove Treblinka wasn't a death camp?

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Huntinger
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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Huntinger » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:52 am

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:04 pm
There are impossibilities such as the hermetically sealed gas chamber, if taken as claimed, point to the narrative of Treblinka being a "death camp"as false. Are there any reasonable/rational explanations to mitigate such anomalies? If one such supposed impossibility is proven true, is that enough to prove Treblinka wasn't a death camp?
This also brings the old question which Friedrich resolved of the gas used. Diesel engines can kill but not to the degree maintained. It was "evidenced" that diesel engines were used to gas people, probably through Carbon Monoxide, but this is not true, there is simply not enough CO produced to kill a single person let alone a train full. As this is brought up Jude change their story to suggest, the witnesses were mistaken and it was a petrol engine. This is also super dumb and a waste of fuel, a criminal offense in the Reich. There are far better ways to produce CO than the old common method to kill cats in a drum.
There is also the story of the Lobstering and asphyxiation and so on.
The most likely scenario was that the radiator of the engine was piped to the bath house to provide warm water for hygiene aka showering. Then we get the great question "where did they go"; as a transit camp it is quite clear they were transited inland to work placements. What did they do with those who could not work. well they went elsewhere.

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Turnagain
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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Turnagain » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:40 am

Huntinger wrote:
This also brings the old question which Friedrich resolved of the gas used. Diesel engines can kill but not to the degree maintained.
True, Fritz Berg blew the diesel exhaust as the source of lethal quantities of CO out of the water. The claim was then changed to a gasoline engine for the source of CO. Other than using any IC engine as the source of lethal quantities of CO for industrial scale murder is highly doubtful, the Soviets did employ a limited number of gasoline engines in their tanks when they ran short of the Kharkiv V-2 engines. The gas engine was the Mikulin 17T, a knockoff of a BMW aircraft engine the Soviets built under license from BMW. It was a design from 1930 and the Soviets ceased producing them in 1941. Only 8,000 of them were used to power Soviet armor.

So, if the claim of an IC engine being used to supply CO for industrial scale murder is true, then its possible that the Mikulin 17T was used for that purpose. Pretty far-fetched but possible. A greater drawback would be the 17T's size. It was 46.9 liters so would discharge 23.45 cubic meters of exhaust per minute at 1,000 RPM. The exterminationist's claim that a gasoline engine was used is beyond shaky but it is barely possible.

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Huntinger » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:19 am

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:40 am
So, if the claim of an IC engine being used to supply CO for industrial scale murder is true, then its possible that the Mikulin 17T was used for that purpose. Pretty far-fetched but possible. A greater drawback would be the 17T's size. It was 46.9 liters so would discharge 23.45 cubic meters of exhaust per minute at 1,000 RPM. The exterminationist's claim that a gasoline engine was used is beyond shaky but it is barely possible.
The only use of a diesel engine in those camps was for power. The radiator system was adapted to heat water for the radiators and for all showering; this is more efficient than just letting the heat escape to space. Winters by the Bug river can often be a few degrees below the freezing point of water. The extensive plumbing was to heat water for showering and for the radiators for both guards und die Arbeiter. I would think a larger engine would be perfect for this task. It is highly unlikely there would be electric fences around transit lagers, the power being used for lighting and perhaps some electric heating.

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Bunim Abend
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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Bunim Abend » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:54 am

Turnagain, you avoided answering my very simple question before on the other thread.

Since you regard the eyewitness testimonies and memoirs all as lies, why are you using Wiernik's statements as facts to prove something to be false?

As Nessie has pointed out, what you are claiming Wiernik said is flawed anyway and does not prove what you're trying to claim about Treblinka.

Surprisingly, you didn't end your first post with your autistic style ending "No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story." :lol:

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Turnagain » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:57 pm

Bunim Abend wrote:
Since you regard the eyewitness testimonies and memoirs all as lies, why are you using Wiernik's statements as facts to prove something to be false?
A supposed eyewitness to a crime is proven to be a liar. The testimony of a witness who lied must be disregarded by the court and can't be used as evidence of the defendants innocence. Gee, what a novel legal principle you have there, Abend.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Bunim Abend » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:23 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:57 pm
Bunim Abend wrote:
Since you regard the eyewitness testimonies and memoirs all as lies, why are you using Wiernik's statements as facts to prove something to be false?
A supposed eyewitness to a crime is proven to be a liar. The testimony of a witness who lied must be disregarded by the court and can't be used as evidence of the defendants innocence. Gee, what a novel legal principle you have there, Abend.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.
You can't have it both ways, I reminded you of your stupidity before:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3788&p=151046#p151046

The best part about it is that what you're claiming isn't even actually factual, your claims are flawed. Your confirmation bias is showing.

I see you're back to posting your autistic style ending. Pathetic.

You have created a new thread and still posting the same debunked and flawed shit. :lol: At least post some new claims.

Turnagain
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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Turnagain » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:05 pm

Bunim Abend wrote:
The best part about it is that what you're claiming isn't even actually factual, your claims are flawed.
Really? You have evidence that Wiernik didn't write that the doors were hermetically sealed, the roof vent didn't have a hermetic cap and that the piping was connected to an IC engine? Gee, that's funny, since that is what he DID write in his book, "A Year in Treblinka". You're also apparently claiming that Wiernik's testimony can't be used unless it's accepted as gospel truth. Proving someone to be a liar is illegal? Dig that hole a little deeper, Abend.

No cremains, no graves, no holyhoax. Finito. End of story.

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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by blake121666 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:15 pm

A radiator does not heat its fluid - it radiates the heat away - thus cooling the fluid and heating the surroundings.

EDIT: And the diesel argument is that it is difficult to impossible to produce a lethal concentration of CO in a diesel ICE's exhaust.

EDIT 2: And a gasoline engine's exhaust can easily produce a lethal concentration of CO below its LEL (Lower Explosion Limit). A woodgas gasifier produces CO much above its LEL (hence its being used as fuel to be exploded) and needs to be transported into the room in some fashion (a fan or something). The gasoline exhaust is of course easily piped and moving through the pipe.
Last edited by blake121666 on Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Huntinger
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Re: Impossibilities of Treblinka, real or imagined?

Post by Huntinger » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:23 pm

blake121666 wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:15 pm
A radiator does not heat its fluid - it radiates the heat away - thus cooling the fluid and heating the surroundings.

EDIT: And the diesel argument is that it is difficult to impossible to produce a lethal concentration of CO in a diesel ICE's exhaust.
Please note that the heat was dispersed through the pipes to act as a source of heating. Stop being pedantic you knew full well the intention of the post.

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