Sobibor investigation

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Roberto
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Re: Sobibor investigation

Post by Roberto » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:08 pm

Blogbuster wrote:
rollo the ganger wrote:Thank God you're not a Crime Scene Investigator. We'd never catch any criminals. May whole point is that it is very doubtful the Germans manufactured the tag. That begs the question of who did. Any suggestions Roberto? Also, if Haimi is a professional researcher then, yes, he IS incumbent to provide proof of his claims. That is the essence of all researchers and their work.

If I stamped out her name on a piece of metal and had it shipped to Poland to be dropped off at Sobibor and someone found it, is that evidence the piece of metal belonged to her? Are you that simple Roberto?

LOL Rollo, thats excatly the scenario the HC hate bloggers employed when they tried to plant fakes on ARC.

They created a forged photo then got one of their pals who had access to the website to upload the fake, then they amazingly discovered it and tried to accuse the website owner of planting it....

so don't be suprised that Roberto would be that simple...
Scott, I'll ignore this clown from now on. My recommendation that he be confined to "Siberian Exile" has been repeated often enough.
Denial of generally known historical facts should not be punishable. For those who maintain, for instance, that Germany did not take part in World War I or that Adenauer fought at Issus in 333, their own stupidity is punishment enough. The same should apply to the denial of the horrors and crimes of the recent German past.
~ A German jurist by the name of Baumann in the German juridical magazine NJW, quoted in: Bailer-Galanda/Benz/Neugebauer (ed.), Die Auschwitzleugner, Berlin 1996, page 261 (my translation).

rollo the ganger
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Re: Sobibor investigation

Post by rollo the ganger » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:17 pm

You are just too original Roberto. The girl's parents you say. What evidence do you have of that? Is that what Haimi is saying? I'm not doubting that there was in fact a girl of this name sent to Sobibor and that this was knowledge prior to Haimi's discovery of this tag, what I am questioning is the tag itself. The questions regarding the tag are valid:

Who manufactured the tag? When was the tag manufactured? Why was the tag manufactured?

Valid questions for any historical artifact. Answers? Valid ones please.

Clark
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Re: Sobibor investigation

Post by Clark » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:01 pm

RM / mentally ill one:

How many of the 10 fraudulently alleged “graves” of Sobibor can you prove contain the remains of at least 19 bodies?

Roberto
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Re: Sobibor investigation

Post by Roberto » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:12 pm

rollo the ganger wrote:You are just too original Roberto. The girl's parents you say. What evidence do you have of that? Is that what Haimi is saying? I'm not doubting that there was in fact a girl of this name sent to Sobibor and that this was knowledge prior to Haimi's discovery of this tag, what I am questioning is the tag itself. The questions regarding the tag are valid:

Who manufactured the tag? When was the tag manufactured? Why was the tag manufactured?

Valid questions for any historical artifact. Answers? Valid ones please.
Questions about the tag may be valid, but if there's no doubt that a girl by this name was sent to Sobibór, they don't call into question the authenticity of the object. The mere theoretical possibility that someone could have planted the tag is not sufficient to call the tag's authenticity into question.
Last edited by Roberto on Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Denial of generally known historical facts should not be punishable. For those who maintain, for instance, that Germany did not take part in World War I or that Adenauer fought at Issus in 333, their own stupidity is punishment enough. The same should apply to the denial of the horrors and crimes of the recent German past.
~ A German jurist by the name of Baumann in the German juridical magazine NJW, quoted in: Bailer-Galanda/Benz/Neugebauer (ed.), Die Auschwitzleugner, Berlin 1996, page 261 (my translation).

Roberto
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Re: Sobibor investigation

Post by Roberto » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:19 pm

Clark wrote:RM / mentally ill one:

How many of the 10 fraudulently alleged “graves” of Sobibor can you prove contain the remains of at least 19 bodies?
Please rephrase the question without insults.

And without claims of fraudulence and quote marks, unless you can provide evidence of fraudulence.

Additionally, please explain how you arrived at a number of 10 graves at Sobibór. Only eight have been identified by archaeologists, and regarding seven of these I can prove that they contain the remains of at least 19 bodies, see the blog Human remains inside the mass graves at Chełmno, Bełżec and Sobibór. About the eight grave, recently discovered by Yoram Haimi, I have no information that would allow for estimating its human contents.
Denial of generally known historical facts should not be punishable. For those who maintain, for instance, that Germany did not take part in World War I or that Adenauer fought at Issus in 333, their own stupidity is punishment enough. The same should apply to the denial of the horrors and crimes of the recent German past.
~ A German jurist by the name of Baumann in the German juridical magazine NJW, quoted in: Bailer-Galanda/Benz/Neugebauer (ed.), Die Auschwitzleugner, Berlin 1996, page 261 (my translation).

rollo the ganger
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Re: Sobibor investigation

Post by rollo the ganger » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:16 pm

Haimi has made quite a show of displaying this particular object to students, i.e. young impressionable people, as an indictiment for murder. Therefore I find it important to verify exactly what this object is. Is it an identification tag worn by the person in question at the time? Or is it something placed there later, possibly a commemorative by a relative, friend, etc.? Or is it a recent manufacture with a misrepresentative purpose other than the truth? I won't take your's or Haimi's explanation on simple faith.

Clark
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Re: Sobibor investigation

Post by Clark » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:57 pm

"How many of the 10 fraudulently alleged “graves” of Sobibor can you prove contain the remains of at least 19 bodies?"

RM / mentally ill one:
7
Well then RM / mentally ill one, fill in the 5 blanks:


To date, I have submitted __?__ Sobibor “mass graves / buried remains” - “proofs” to Michael Shermer on The Skeptics Society’s forum for his endorsement. And, to date, __?__ of those submittals have been deemed ineligible for a reward by the N.A.F.H. due to my noncompliance with their posting rules. Regardless of my eligibility status for a $1,000.00 reward, __?__ of my Sobibor submittals have been endorsed by Michael Shermer as meeting his own, Skeptic Magazine’s and The Skeptics Society’s expressed and implied standards of proof. Also, to date, the total combined number of skeptical organization members, professional forensic anthropologists, employees of Archaeology Magazine, PHD professors currently teaching forensic anthropology and/or archaeology classes at a university in the United States and members of The American Academy of Forensic Sciences who have publicly and explicitly endorsed my alleged - “proven with 100 % certainty” - Sobibor - “mass graves / buried remains” - “proofs” submitted on The Skeptics Society’s forum is - __?__. Also, to date, the total number of those same alleged - “proven with 100 % certainty” - Sobibor - “mass graves / buried remains” - “proofs” that I submitted for Shermers endorsement that I have been able to get published in Archaeology Magazine is - __?__.


(BTW, calling someone who is mentally ill mentally ill is not an insult - it's simply stating a fact - a well known fact that has been admitted by the mentally ill one itself.)

rollo the ganger
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Re: Sobibor investigation

Post by rollo the ganger » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:07 pm

Roberto said: "Questions about the tag may be valid, but if there's no doubt that a girl by this name was sent to Sobibór, they don't call into question the authenticity of the object. The mere theoretical possibility that someone could have planted the tag is not sufficient to call the tag's authenticity into question."

The fact is that no one said there is no doubt that a girl by this name was sent to Sobibor. At least I didn't. I only claimed I was not proclaiming doubt on that matter and that was not the issue. My question to you Roberto is what do you mean by "authenticity of the object"? Also, exactly what proof is there that someone of that name was taken to Sobibor? You seem sure of it so what is it that makes you so sure? What facts do you have on this Roberto?

ralphgordon
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Re: Sobibor investigation

Post by ralphgordon » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:25 pm

Clark wrote:"How many of the 10 fraudulently alleged “graves” of Sobibor can you prove contain the remains of at least 19 bodies?"

RM / mentally ill one:
7
Well then RM / mentally ill one, fill in the 5 blanks:


To date, I have submitted __?__ Sobibor “mass graves / buried remains” - “proofs” to Michael Shermer on The Skeptics Society’s forum for his endorsement. And, to date, __?__ of those submittals have been deemed ineligible for a reward by the N.A.F.H. due to my noncompliance with their posting rules. Regardless of my eligibility status for a $1,000.00 reward, __?__ of my Sobibor submittals have been endorsed by Michael Shermer as meeting his own, Skeptic Magazine’s and The Skeptics Society’s expressed and implied standards of proof. Also, to date, the total combined number of skeptical organization members, professional forensic anthropologists, employees of Archaeology Magazine, PHD professors currently teaching forensic anthropology and/or archaeology classes at a university in the United States and members of The American Academy of Forensic Sciences who have publicly and explicitly endorsed my alleged - “proven with 100 % certainty” - Sobibor - “mass graves / buried remains” - “proofs” submitted on The Skeptics Society’s forum is - __?__. Also, to date, the total number of those same alleged - “proven with 100 % certainty” - Sobibor - “mass graves / buried remains” - “proofs” that I submitted for Shermers endorsement that I have been able to get published in Archaeology Magazine is - __?__.


(BTW, calling someone who is mentally ill mentally ill is not an insult - it's simply stating a fact - a well known fact that has been admitted by the mentall ill one itself.)


MEMO TO SCOTT SMITH: Once again we are on the slippery slope to ruin, apropos the old RODOH forum, if we allow unwarranted personal abuse in lieu of dialectical debate. The person, "Clark", appears to be a "denier", and if so, then, although he is probably too uneducated to understand (possibly a neo-Nazi), by indulging in just personal abuse he is objectively helping the "exterminationist" case, by letting such as Roberto (I don't care what motivates him) off the hook by not having to justify his own views in reasonable debate (If Roberto also indulges in personal abuse, which I have noticed, then he is just hurting his own case). I really do think that you should just delete all "Clark's" abusive posts (in other threads, as well), in order to make an example of him -- he has possibly been urged by those at CODOH to disrupt your forum through such personal abuse. Personally if there is much more personal abuse I think that I will just discontinue posting here, as there is no point, from a "denier" perspective, if "exterminationists" are not encouraged to participate in dialectical debate.

Clark
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Re: Sobibor investigation

Post by Clark » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:43 pm

Yoram Hymie
We also found remnants of gas masks which the Nazis used to remove bodies from the gas chambers.
That has to be one of the most asinine things I've ever read.


RM / the mentally ill one
Please rephrase the question without insults.
What's wrong RM? Are all the TRUE references to your being mentally ill getting to you?

You were sooooo quick to insult others and were laying it on sooooo thick, then all of sudden you don't want others to “insult” you?

The problem here mentally ill one, is that all the "insults" (as you cravenly call them) about your mental illness are based on FACTS - facts that you yourself are on record admitting.

And your pathological lying, delusions of grandeur and overall bizarre behavior can only be explained by the FACT that you are mentally ill.

Your wanting to end what you call “insults” aimed at you came ONLY AFTER you started getting hammered with the TRUTH about your well documented mental illness.

That is proof of what a cowardly POS you are.


(BTW, don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out Ralphy boy.)

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