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Re: Prove that at least one Jew was definitely gassed with supporting hard data such as when and where?

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:22 am
by been-there
Huntinger wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:55 am
I find the following BBC report compelling and truthful. It shows the awful horror at Belsen at the end of the war after a total breakdown of society due to Allied bombing. In reality it is not the Germans who were complicit in this crime but the Allies; the Germans had no control, no food, no clean water, no medicine, no help. Belsen was surrendered to the British April 15, 1945. The Germans were little better off than the inmates at this camp and yes typhus was rampant. There is no mention of Jude or gassing, just the honest conditions of the rout of society.
The facts are is that the allies bombed the Reich into total submission, no food, no medicine...nothing. They then claim that the Reich caused the misery on these unfortunate victims seen in the videos. This is a true case where the criminals have laid blame on the victims. The criminals are the allied forces who could have sent supplies in, especially medicine, clean food and water. If there was a holocaust they must look at themselves.
Well said!

Re: Prove that at least one Jew was definitely gassed with supporting hard data such as when and where?

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 1:21 pm
by Friedrich Paul Berg
In other words, there is NO "proof" that even one Jew was ever gassed to death by the Nazis anywhere, ever. That statement should deflate the Holocaust hoax quickly--but because people are thoroughly brainwashed, it will still take a while before sanity asserts itself.

The holocaust hoax is anti-German racism with the most vicious lies imaginable concocted and promoted in every way by the Jews, who else--as if it was history which it is not. Judaism itself is racism directed at everyone, so no one should be surprised when it also attacked the people most educated to see through them and their communist hell on earth, namely the Germans.

FPBerg

Re: Prove that at least one Jew was definitely gassed with supporting hard data such as when and where?

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 5:42 am
by Nessie
Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:21 pm
In other words, there is NO "proof" ...
What would constitute "proof"?

Normally, evidence such as transport records and witnesses which show named people were taken to a specific camp and multiple witnesses speak to those arriving transports being gassed at that camp, is proof.

The denier tactic is to discuss that evidence of gassing and to find reasons to disbelieve it. The claim is then made, therefore no gassings. But that is a logical fallacy and only a fool would use a logical fallacy to try and evidence and prove a claim.

The way to prove no gassings is to look for evidence that something else happened. The only alternative to the gassings, since the camps were far too small to accommodate all the arrivals, is that those people then left the camp. There is no evidence of mass departures, which there would be if it happened. Deniers cannot evidence what they claim happened.

That then verifies the evidence for gassing as being correct, despite denier incredulity and that means, evidentially, logically, scientifically, empirically and legally, gassing has been proved.

Re: Prove that at least one Jew was definitely gassed with supporting hard data such as when and where?

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 5:53 am
by Smallhausen
Nessie wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:42 am
Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:21 pm
In other words, there is NO "proof" ...
What would constitute "proof"?

Normally, evidence such as transport records and witnesses which show named people were taken to a specific camp and multiple witnesses speak to those arriving transports being gassed at that camp, is proof.

The denier tactic is to discuss that evidence of gassing and to find reasons to disbelieve it. The claim is then made, therefore no gassings. But that is a logical fallacy and only a fool would use a logical fallacy to try and evidence and prove a claim.

The way to prove no gassings is to look for evidence that something else happened. The only alternative to the gassings, since the camps were far too small to accommodate all the arrivals, is that those people then left the camp. There is no evidence of mass departures, which there would be if it happened. Deniers cannot evidence what they claim happened.

That then verifies the evidence for gassing as being correct, despite denier incredulity and that means, evidentially, logically, scientifically, empirically and legally, gassing has been proved.
PROOF IS medical forensic evidence which can be verified against known standards. This thread is not to discuss your views on tactics or logical fallacies. I can only strongly suggest if you have no evidence then say nothing OK. Arrivals, those who left is just anecdotes correlated perhaps with possibilities. This is not accepted. Friedrich and the world demand proper evidence. Thank you for your continued compliance in this quest for truth. There is absolutely no hard evidence of any gassing event but hearsay.
Nothing has been proved at all but you have the opportunity here and everyone is patient, especially me. As there is no evidence anything untoward happened why should anyone look to an alternative as you suggest, but that is veering off topic. Provide hard evidence and then when the "deniers" feel they are losing then they can veer towards an alternative. I have as more information comes to light which involves the culpability of the allied forces in the Apocalypse of Europe but that is also off topic. Please find hard evidence of a single gassing event of a single Jude.

Re: Prove that at least one Jew was definitely gassed with supporting hard data such as when and where?

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 2:08 pm
by Friedrich Paul Berg
Since the hoaxers provide no "proof," perhaps they can at least provide some kind of "good evidence." That is a lower standard of "evidence" which the true believers might be able to achieve. So, is there any "good evidence" that anyone was ever gassed to death by the Nazis, anywhere, ever? In other words, is there something better than mere anecdotes to identify even one Jew who was gassed to death by the Nazis, anywhere, ever.

To David Irving and Mark Weber, "backsliding jackasses," here is an opportunity for them to show that they are still awake. Or the folks at USHMM who have made a thriving business out of their hate and lies, do something. Give back the money you swindled out of so many naive people. Stop LYING!

FPBerg

Re: Prove that at least one Jew was definitely gassed with supporting hard data such as when and where?

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 5:00 pm
by Nessie
Lea Judith de la Penha, a 6 year old Dutch child was on the 17th transport from Westerbork to Sobibor, arriving 9th July 1943. Her name tag was found during archaeological excavations at Sobibor in 2012. That means there is documentary and physical evidence she was at Sobibor.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/hi ... of-sobibor
https://www.sobibor.org/en/de-negentien-transporten/

The following are all witnesses who speak to seeing gassings at Sobibor;

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3196

C1) Sobibor Nazis
1) Franz Stangl 1970 - Dussledorf
Camp commander Sobibor and Treblinka
2) Karl Frenzel 1966 - Hagen
1985 - Hagen retrial
3) Kurt Bolender 1966 - Hagen
1963 - Munich ?
4) Franz Wolf 1966 - Hagen
5) Alfred Ittner 1966 - Hagen
(accountant pre sobibor)
6) Werner Dubois 1966 - Hagen
1963 - Munich
7) Erich Fuchs 1966 - Hagen
1963 - Munich
1961 - Dortmund ?
YVA TR 10/1069
8) Erich Lachmann 1966 - Hagen
9) Hans-Heinz Schutt 1966 - Hagen
10) Heinrich Unverhau 1948 - Euthenasia
1966 - Hagen
1963 - Munich
11) Robert Juhrs 1966 - Hagen
1963 - Munich
12) Ernst Zierke 1966 - Hagen
1963 - Munich
13) Erwin Lambert 1966 - Hagen
14) Hubert Gomerski 1947 - Euthenasia Trial
1950 - Frankfu
15) Erich Bauer 1950 - Frankfurt
"The Gasmaster" 1961 - Dortmund ?
16) Johan Klier 1950 - Frankfurt
17) Karl Streibel 1976 - Hamburg
Commander of Trawinki camp - visitor to Sobibor dec 42
18) Franz Hodl 1950 - Frankfurt
witness ?
29.03.66 StA Dortmund - verfahren gegen gomerski ??
19) Heinrich Barbl 1965 - Linz
20) Becher Warner 1966 - Hagen ?
Driver witness?
21) Gustav Wagner escaped to brazil
deputy commander of camp
the beast' or 'the wolf'

The building described as being the gas chambers has been located at the camp;

https://www.spiegel.de/international/ze ... 93733.html

Of all the Dutch sent to Sobibor, only 18 are recorded as having returned to the Netherlands;

https://www.sobiborinterviews.nl/en/ned ... erlevenden

Since we know for a fact that she was sent to Sobibor and there are multiple witnesses to arrivals being gassed there in a building that has since been found, it is hard to see how deniers can claim no gassings took place. There is certainly no evidence to support the denier belief, which there should be, since deniers demand that gassings are evidenced.

If that still makes you doubt that Lea Judith de la Penha was gassed at Sobibor, what you should do is present evidence that something else took place at the camp. Find evidence that she was at another camp after the 9th July 1943. Find evidence that instead of gas chambers, she was showered and sent onwards.

When you accept there is no evidence of an alternative, you need to face up to the fact that there is evidence she was taken to Sobibor and gassed.

Re: Prove that at least one Jew was definitely gassed with supporting hard data such as when and where?

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 7:42 pm
by Huntinger
Nessie wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 5:00 pm

If that still makes you doubt that Lea Judith de la Penha was gassed at Sobibor, what you should do is present evidence that something else took place at the camp. Find evidence that she was at another camp after the 9th July 1943. Find evidence that instead of gas chambers, she was showered and sent onwards.

When you accept there is no evidence of an alternative, you need to face up to the fact that there is evidence she was taken to Sobibor and gassed.
Speculation of missing people is not evidence of anything except someone is missing. Friedrich has asked for hard evidence of gassing not speculation and certainly not eye witnesses. Anecdotes are not hard data and neither is speculation. There is evidence for an alternative and that is this was mere propaganda as attempted 20 or so years earlier during WWI. This person may have been shot or bombed, who knows, this is not evidence of gassing. She may have died of typhus like Anne Frank did and thousands of others.

Re: Prove that at least one Jew was definitely gassed with supporting hard data such as when and where?

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:21 pm
by Bunim Abend
Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:21 pm
In other words, there is NO "proof" that even one Jew was ever gassed to death by the Nazis anywhere, ever. That statement should deflate the Holocaust hoax quickly--but because people are thoroughly brainwashed, it will still take a while before sanity asserts itself.

The holocaust hoax is anti-German racism with the most vicious lies imaginable concocted and promoted in every way by the Jews, who else--as if it was history which it is not. Judaism itself is racism directed at everyone, so no one should be surprised when it also attacked the people most educated to see through them and their communist hell on earth, namely the Germans.

FPBerg
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... ims-1.html

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... ims-2.html

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... -with.html

There you go.

Re: Prove that at least one Jew was definitely gassed with supporting hard data such as when and where?

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:26 pm
by Huntinger
Thank you but we have seen these. These are just lie witness reports, assumptions, mere anecdotes and not the hard information requested. Now if there was an autopsy report of one of these people who were allegedly gassed this would or might help your case.
Did you know that all of the eye witnesses only saw, green, black and blue perhaps a yellow gassing victim. This is how we know they are telling porkies as they or most victims would be a lovely cherry colour like Reifung jüdischer Tomaten.
Image
Reifung jüdischer Tomaten.