Bishop Richard Williamson on Holocaustianity, Robert Faurisson and Jérôme Bourbon

Discuss the alleged Nazi genocide or other wartime atrocities without fear of censorship. No bullying of fellow posters is allowed at RODOH. If you can't be civil, please address the argument and not the participants. Do not use disparaging alterations of the user-names of other RODOH posters or their family members. Failure to heed warnings from Moderators will result in a 24 hour ban (or longer if necessary).
User avatar
Scott
Site Admin
Posts: 2108
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:43 am
Location: USA, West of the Pecos
Contact:

Re: Bishop Richard Williamson on Holocaustianity, Robert Faurisson and Jérôme Bourbon

Post by Scott » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:32 pm

The Degesch, et al gas/air circulation machines might not have been necessary to kill a person, but they are perfect for an INDUSTRIAL fumigation operation; that is what they were designed to do.

So the point is that this is easy technology and the Germans were readily using it IN THEIR CAMPS. All they would have needed to do is make it so that a secure barrier was between the blower apparatus and the condemned, and voilà.

That the Germans put zero thought whatsoever into mass-murder is very telling. Very telling, indeed.

Remember, the EXTRAORDINARY exterminationist claims are not an occasional prison camp murder--these happen sometimes in other institutions besides "death camps."


Case in point--the Papago Park World War II PoW camp at Phoenix/Scottsdale, Arizona. On March 12, 1944, German Kriegsmarine PoWs hanged an alleged informant who was brought in from another camp for this nefarious purpose. The man, Werner Max Herschel Drechsler was recognized immediately as a stool pigeon from a camp in Texas, and within seven hours the collaborator was found dead hanging in the Papago camp shower in his underwear.

BIRTH 17 Jan 1922
Chemnitz, Stadtkreis Chemnitz, Saxony (Sachsen), Germany
DEATH 13 Mar 1944 (aged 22)
Phoenix, Maricopa County, Arizona, USA
BURIAL
Fort Bliss National Cemetery
El Paso, El Paso County, Texas, USA
PLOT Section PG, Row 7, Site 6G
MILITARY Corporal (Obergefreiter)
MEMORIAL ID 599208



Seven perpetrators of the murder were themselves hanged at Fort Leavenworth shortly after the end of the war, in the last military executions held by the United States.


Image


Again, the point is that with "Death Camps" and "industrialized mass-murder" we are not talking about a FEW killings or executions, of course. That means another kettle of fish entirely.

:)

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

User avatar
blake121666
Posts: 2724
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:26 am
Contact:

Re: Bishop Richard Williamson on Holocaustianity, Robert Faurisson and Jérôme Bourbon

Post by blake121666 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:27 am

The bottleneck in the alleged operation was not the actual gassing of course. If 1000 people would have been slaughtered in 10 minutes with an elaborate forced circulation system versus 30 minutes without it, that'd only be a time savings of 20 minutes for the approximate 1000 persons gassed - or about 1 second per corpse. The handling of the corpses (as well as the persons before being gassed) takes much longer than the gassing - with or without any elaborate forced circulation system.

The gassing part of the "INDUSTRIAL" operation as you call it simply isn't the part that needs optimizing - compared to the rest of the "INDUSTRIAL" operation. It is of a different order of magnitude time-wise. And it could very well be done asynchronously if need be (done while handling previously gassed corpses).

The handling of those 1000 corpses would take on the order of a day or so. What is 20 minutes compared to that?

The lice fumigation situation is entirely different. In that case, it would take hours to ensure the extermination of the lice and eggs without the forced circulation - because the gas needs to penetrate all areas containing lice and their eggs with sufficient dosage to kill them. That's simply not the case in the human situation. The humans in this scenario cannot hide in clothing and are not shielded by egg membranes. While there would not be any uniform concentration reaching them, it simply doesn't matter. After inhaling the lethal dosage (non-uniformly) - which reaches them without needing to penetrate through anything, they will succumb.
Last edited by blake121666 on Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 3108
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh.
Contact:

Re: Bishop Richard Williamson on Holocaustianity, Robert Faurisson and Jérôme Bourbon

Post by Huntinger » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:57 am

blake121666 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:27 am
The bottleneck in the alleged operation was not the actual gassing of course. If 1000 people would have been slaughtered in 10 minutes with an elaborate forced circulation system versus 30 minutes without it, that'd only be a time savings of 20 minutes for the approximate 1000 persons gassed - or about 1 second per corpse. The handling of the corpses (as well as the persons before being gassed) takes much longer than the gassing - with or without any elaborate forced circulation system.

The gassing part of the "INDUSTRIAL" operation as you call it simply isn't the part that needs optimizing - compared to the rest of the "INDUSTRIAL" operation. It is of a different order of magnitude time-wise. And it could very well be done asynchronously if need be (done while handling previously gassed corpses).

The handling of those 1000 corpses would take on the order of a day or so. What is 20 minutes compared to that?
There was no gassing, please read the formal propositions thread. You are speculating on imaginary scenarios.
𝕲𝖊𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖒- 𝖚𝖓𝖉 𝕾𝖙𝖆𝖆𝖙𝖘𝖕𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖟𝖊𝖎 𝖋𝖚̈𝖗 𝖉𝖊𝖓 𝕾𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖙𝖘𝖉𝖎𝖊𝖓𝖘𝖙

User avatar
Friedrich Paul Berg
Posts: 3100
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:21 am
Contact:

Re: Bishop Richard Williamson on Holocaustianity, Robert Faurisson and Jérôme Bourbon

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:45 pm

It's probably a waste of time to dwell on some of the technical errors in Blake's post above and yet it is important to get things right. Blake wrote above: If 1000 people would have been slaughtered in 10 minutes with an elaborate forced circulation system versus 30 minutes without it, that'd only be a time savings of 20 minutes for the approximate 1000 persons gassed - or about 1 second per corpse.

The comparison Blake tries to make is far from realistic. It is NOT a matter of 10 minutes versus 30 minutes at all. It is a matter of 10 minutes versus many hours without forced circulation of the gas. Germar Rudolf makes the point quite accuratelely that w-i-t-h-o-u-t forced circulation as in any standard DEGESCH gas chamber, the little Jew lying flat on the floor in a remote corner of the gas chamber might have spent many hours there before any lethal dose of cyanide could have even reached him.

The key difference is what DEGESCH emphasized again in their literature was KREISLAUF by which they meant forced circulation of all the gas in the gas chamber. "Forced Circulation" was a simple enough concept which the Germans were more than capable of appreciating especially when compared to American "pseudo-experts" like Fred Leuchter who could not understand the concept at all.

FPBerg

User avatar
blake121666
Posts: 2724
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:26 am
Contact:

Re: Bishop Richard Williamson on Holocaustianity, Robert Faurisson and Jérôme Bourbon

Post by blake121666 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:41 pm

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:45 pm
It's probably a waste of time to dwell on some of the technical errors in Blake's post above and yet it is important to get things right. Blake wrote above: If 1000 people would have been slaughtered in 10 minutes with an elaborate forced circulation system versus 30 minutes without it, that'd only be a time savings of 20 minutes for the approximate 1000 persons gassed - or about 1 second per corpse.

The comparison Blake tries to make is far from realistic. It is NOT a matter of 10 minutes versus 30 minutes at all. It is a matter of 10 minutes versus many hours without forced circulation of the gas. Germar Rudolf makes the point quite accuratelely that w-i-t-h-o-u-t forced circulation as in any standard DEGESCH gas chamber, the little Jew lying flat on the floor in a remote corner of the gas chamber might have spent many hours there before any lethal dose of cyanide could have even reached him.

The key difference is what DEGESCH emphasized again in their literature was KREISLAUF by which they meant forced circulation of all the gas in the gas chamber. "Forced Circulation" was a simple enough concept which the Germans were more than capable of appreciating especially when compared to American "pseudo-experts" like Fred Leuchter who could not understand the concept at all.

FPBerg
What area of the room would not have the gas reach it for "many hours"? There is nothing the gas needs to penetrate to reach every point in the room in the alleged scenario. There are no fresh air pockets in that scenario.

The Testa-Fibel brochure for the Degesch machine speaks of:
die Kleiderlaus selbst als auch die oft tief versteckten Nissen

English translation: the clothes louse itself as well as often deeply hidden nits
Image

[the last sentence on page 4 here is what I am quoting]

The graphs we've discussed ad infinitum are about the PENETRATION of the gas through packed clothes on a rack in the room:

http://www.nazigassings.com/zyklondelousing.html
Image
Image

Note the label of the graph:
Image

The gas is forced through the clothes on the left but obstructed by those clothes on the right without forced circulation. As you can see, half the gas is absorbed into the clothes (10 g/m^3 settles down to 5 g/m^3) - as stated on page 5 of the brochure.

The forced circulation is to penetrate through the object being deloused to kill the small lice and their eggs (nits - or "Nissen" in German) hidden in the clothing. The alleged human gassing scenario does not need for the gas to penetrate through anything to get to the humans' breathing space.

If there were no clothes in that room, the graph would simply be the gas quickly spreading throughout the room and not being obstructed and absorbed by the clothes. The left and right graphs would be similar without the clothes there. Without the forced circulation, though, the evaporation would take slightly longer and the spreading would take a little longer. So the right graph would be wider and lower in the first 10 minutes but then be about the same - settle into a more or less uniform 10 g/m^3 concentration (no absorption by the clothes).

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 3108
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh.
Contact:

Re: Bishop Richard Williamson on Holocaustianity, Robert Faurisson and Jérôme Bourbon

Post by Huntinger » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:43 pm

blake121666 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:41 pm
If there were no clothes in that room, the graph would simply be the gas quickly spreading throughout the room and not being obstructed and absorbed by the clothes. The left and right graphs would be similar without the clothes there. Without the forced circulation, though, the evaporation would take slightly longer and the spreading would take a little longer. So the right graph would be wider and lower in the first 10 minutes but then be about the same - settle into a more or less uniform 10 g/m^3 concentration (no absorption by the clothes).
This is an assumption, with no evidence to back it up. You seem to know very little about diffusion of gases and the rate of diffusion as given by the formula. Graham's law states that the rate of diffusion or of effusion of a gas is inversely proportional to the square root of its molecular weight. ... In the same conditions of temperature and pressure, the molar mass is proportional to the mass density. You cannot claim if the clothes were or were not there as you do not have that scientific data and are making mere assumptions. No scientist would produce change the conditions of the experiment which would make the graphs invalid. The forced circulation dispenses with the need for diffusion.
Image
𝕲𝖊𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖒- 𝖚𝖓𝖉 𝕾𝖙𝖆𝖆𝖙𝖘𝖕𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖟𝖊𝖎 𝖋𝖚̈𝖗 𝖉𝖊𝖓 𝕾𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖙𝖘𝖉𝖎𝖊𝖓𝖘𝖙

User avatar
blake121666
Posts: 2724
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:26 am
Contact:

Re: Bishop Richard Williamson on Holocaustianity, Robert Faurisson and Jérôme Bourbon

Post by blake121666 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:48 pm

HCN is lighter than air and therefore quickly diffuses - per Graham's law.

It is assumed to not build up to its LEL throughout the Zyklon documentation and therefore outpaces its evaporation rate off the substrate at the very least.

With delousing, the concern is with its sorption to kill hidden nits in the object being fumigated - not with its spread. Its spread is known to be very quick. That is why it is an unsuitable war gas in open spaces. It disperses out too quickly into the open air and away.

Here is an insect fumigation reference for all which includes HCN:

Manual of fumigation for insect control - Diffusion and penetration

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 3108
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh.
Contact:

Re: Bishop Richard Williamson on Holocaustianity, Robert Faurisson and Jérôme Bourbon

Post by Huntinger » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:47 pm

blake121666 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:48 pm
HCN is lighter than air and therefore quickly diffuses - per Graham's law.

It is assumed to not build up to its LEL throughout the Zyklon documentation and therefore outpaces its evaporation rate off the substrate at the very least.

With delousing, the concern is with its sorption to kill hidden nits in the object being fumigated - not with its spread. Its spread is known to be very quick. That is why it is an unsuitable war gas in open spaces. It disperses out too quickly into the open air and away.

Here is an insect fumigation reference for all which includes HCN:

Manual of fumigation for insect control - Diffusion and penetration
The forced circulation was designed for nits. It heats the gas to the correct temperature to get premium evaporation and disperses the gas evenly. The Polish winters are cool at -1 C on average which would greatly slow the evaporation. Forced circulation would certainly make up for those environmental deficiencies. HCN is only suitable for killing lice etc and other vermin and was never a war gas. However, the Germans did invent Sarin but did not use it which is strange. It is 81 times more potent than HCN. Sarin was discovered in 1938 in Wuppertal-Elberfeld in Germany by scientists at IG Farben which by the way was Monowitz though not produced there I do not think. It was named in honor of its discoverers: Schrader, Ambros, Gerhard Ritter, and von der Linde. They also had the nerve agent Tabun. During the Nuremberg Trials, Albert Speer, Minister of Armaments and War Production for the Third Reich, testified that he had planned to kill Adolf Hitler in early 1945 by introducing tabun into the Führerbunker ventilation shaft.
Honestly with these wonderful gases why do you think Zb would be used which was a slow acting poison designed to be used with the forced circulation machine though can be sprinkled. Too slow in its action to kill people effectively when hanging or a bullet, even the guillotine or garrotting would be more effective.
𝕲𝖊𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖒- 𝖚𝖓𝖉 𝕾𝖙𝖆𝖆𝖙𝖘𝖕𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖟𝖊𝖎 𝖋𝖚̈𝖗 𝖉𝖊𝖓 𝕾𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖙𝖘𝖉𝖎𝖊𝖓𝖘𝖙

User avatar
blake121666
Posts: 2724
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:26 am
Contact:

Re: Bishop Richard Williamson on Holocaustianity, Robert Faurisson and Jérôme Bourbon

Post by blake121666 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:01 pm

The alleged gassings were done in packed rooms - which would heat up quickly through body heat.

There is nothing "more potent" than HCN. It is the most toxic gas known.

HCN is most certainly not "slow acting"? It is explosive if it were allowed to build up to its LEL. Its evaporation rate off the Zyklon substrate bars that from happening with the proper dosage.

Like Faurisson, Berg has misunderstood and misrepresented the literature. The forced circulation is not much of a help in the application of gassing persons. HCN diffuses out quite quickly into open spaces. The forced circulation used for delousing is for penetrating into clothes and small hard to reach spaces.

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 3108
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh.
Contact:

Re: Bishop Richard Williamson on Holocaustianity, Robert Faurisson and Jérôme Bourbon

Post by Huntinger » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:10 pm

blake121666 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:01 pm
The alleged gassings were done in packed rooms - which would heat up quickly through body heat.

There is nothing "more potent" than HCN. It is the most toxic gas known.

HCN is most certainly not "slow acting"? It is explosive if it were allowed to build up to its LEL. Its evaporation rate off the Zyklon substrate bars that from happening with the proper dosage.
The pellets were thrown onto a very chilled floor. Body heat rises with very little coming from the legs, insufficient to cause rapid evaporation of the cyanide from the substrate. Sarin as mentioned is 81 times more potent. Sarin Toxicity
  • Hydrogen cyanide, 2860 mg-min/cubic meter[20] – Sarin is 81 times more lethal
  • Phosgene, 1500 mg-min/cubic meter[20] – Sarin is 43 times more lethal
  • Sulfur mustard, 1000 mg-min/cubic meter[20] – Sarin is 28 times more lethal
  • Chlorine, 19000 mg-min/cubic meter[21] – Sarin is 543 times more lethal
𝕲𝖊𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖒- 𝖚𝖓𝖉 𝕾𝖙𝖆𝖆𝖙𝖘𝖕𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖟𝖊𝖎 𝖋𝖚̈𝖗 𝖉𝖊𝖓 𝕾𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖙𝖘𝖉𝖎𝖊𝖓𝖘𝖙

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 5 guests