Were there any mentions of the Holocaust in Churchill et al?

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Were there any mentions of the Holocaust in Churchill et al?

Post by DabbingIsSoMuchFun » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:29 pm

"Crimes were committed by the Germans under the Hitlerite domination to which they allowed themselves to be subjected which find no equal in scale and wickedness with any that have darkened the human record. The wholesale massacre by systematised processes of six or seven millions of men, women and children in the German execution camps exceeds in horror the rough-and-ready butcheries of Genghis Khan, and in scale reduces them to pygmy proportions."


The Gathering Storm: The Second World War, Volume 1, p. 15-16 - by Winston Churchill


So, yeah, um, about that...
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Were there any mentions of the Holocaust in Churchill et al?

Post by Huntinger » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:26 pm

Mr Churchill was a drunk in charge of a country. An Indian politician has said Winston Churchill is no better than Adolf Hitler and the two leaders have equivalent amounts of “blood” on their hands. Dr Shashi Tharoor, whose new book Inglorious Empire chronicles the atrocities of the British Empire, said the former British Prime Minister should be remembered alongside the most prominent dictators of the twentieth century. In 1943, up to four million Bengalis starved to death when Churchill diverted food to British soldiers and countries such as Greece while a deadly famine swept through Bengal. "When to my mind he is really one of the more evil rulers of the 20th century only fit to stand in company of the likes of Hitler, Mao and Stalin". The Independent
Mr Irving has a lot to say about Winnie as well.

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Re: Were there any mentions of the Holocaust in Churchill et al?

Post by Daniel » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:53 pm

from The Gathering Storm, V1, Churchill:
Crimes were committed by the Germans, under the Hitlerite domination to which they allowed themselves to be subjected, which find no equal in scale and wickedness with any that have darkened the human record. The wholesale massacre by systematised processes of six or seven millions of men, women, and children in the German execution camps exceeds in horror the rough-and-ready butcheries of Genghis Khan, and in scale reduces them to pigmy proportions. Deliberate extermination of whole populations was contemplated and pursued by both Germany and Russia in the Eastern war. The hideous process of bombarding open cities from the air, once started by the Germans, was repaid twenty-fold by the ever-mounting power of the Allies, and found its culmination in the use of the atomic bombs which obliterated Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
That "six or seven millions" includes all those Churchill claims the Nazis "massacred" by "systematised processes", not just Jews. Since the majority of people killed by the Nazis (or dying under their watch) were non-Jews, this quote could be used as evidence that Churchill didn't believe in any Holocaust of Jews. If he did, then his number of murdered Jews would come out far lower than that magical 6 million number the establishment uses.

The bolded part (which I copied from my copy of Gathering Storm) is suspicious. I've read in other places that it was the English who started bombing non-military targets in Germany so as to bait Hitler into bombing England, so as to engender in the British population an increased desire to fight Germany.
Last edited by Daniel on Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Were there any mentions of the Holocaust in Churchill et al?

Post by DabbingIsSoMuchFun » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:30 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:26 pm
Mr Churchill was a drunk in charge of a country. An Indian politician has said Winston Churchill is no better than Adolf Hitler and the two leaders have equivalent amounts of “blood” on their hands. Dr Shashi Tharoor, whose new book Inglorious Empire chronicles the atrocities of the British Empire, said the former British Prime Minister should be remembered alongside the most prominent dictators of the twentieth century. In 1943, up to four million Bengalis starved to death when Churchill diverted food to British soldiers and countries such as Greece while a deadly famine swept through Bengal. "When to my mind he is really one of the more evil rulers of the 20th century only fit to stand in company of the likes of Hitler, Mao and Stalin". The Independent
Mr Irving has a lot to say about Winnie as well.
No comment.
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Re: Were there any mentions of the Holocaust in Churchill et al?

Post by Huntinger » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:35 pm

Daniel, thank you for your reply but if you cut and paste could you quote your sources. In the case above this is from
"Milestones to Disaster". The Second World War: Winston Churchill
It is most likely that the Germans were goaded as it was Churchill who started the whole thing basically. The tragedy is that the deaths of 80 million people could have been avoided but Churchill being drunk most of the time wanted a pissing competition; their young men killing our young men. It is a shame the Yanks butted in as Her Majesty being a vassal of the third Reich with the Hakenkreuz flying on London Bridge would be a rather nice sight.

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Re: Were there any mentions of the Holocaust in Churchill et al?

Post by DabbingIsSoMuchFun » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:38 pm

Daniel wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:53 pm
Crimes were committed by the Germans, under the Hitlerite domination to which they allowed themselves to be subjected, which find no equal in scale and wickedness with any that have darkened the human record. The wholesale massacre by systematised processes of six or seven millions of men, women, and children in the German execution camps exceeds in horror the rough-and-ready butcheries of Genghis Khan, and in scale reduces them to pigmy proportions. Deliberate extermination of whole populations was contemplated and pursued by both Germany and Russia in the Eastern war. The hideous process of bombarding open cities from the air, once started by the Germans, was repaid twenty-fold by the ever-mounting power of the Allies, and found its culmination in the use of the atomic bombs which obliterated Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

That "six or seven millions" includes all those Churchill claims the Nazis "massacred" by "systematised processes", not just Jews. Since the majority of people killed by the Nazis (or dying under their watch) were non-Jews, this quote could be used as evidence that Churchill didn't believe in any Holocaust of Jews. If he did, then his number of murdered Jews would come out far lower than that magical 6 million number the establishment uses.

The bolded part (which I copied from my copy of Gathering Storm) is suspicious. I've read in other places that it was the English who started bombing non-military targets in Germany so as to bait Hitler into bombing England, so as to engender in the British population an increased desire to fight Germany.


Actually, the majority of people killed were Jews, as Churchill specifically mentions 'execution camps' (his words). Most people deported there were overwhelmingly Jewish, with the odd guy there and there. Hence, this statement is an affirmation of the Holocaust. If I were to say:


"The murder of 6 million people by the Nazis was horrific."


You know I am referring to 6 million Jews, as that is the figure for them; the basic, common, or 'magical' one, in your words.


If I were to say:


"The murder of 17 million people by the Nazis was horrific."


You know I am referring to the victims of the Broader definition of the Holocaust.




Why would Churchill approve, help and orchestrate the very trials that prosecuted some Germans for the murder of 6 million Jews, AND lie about his stances at the same time? It would be better to just sweep it under the rug, don't you think?



Was Churchill an undercover Neo-Nwutshee who got bought after the end of the war? :lol:



That said, I am not here to argue about Churchill's claims, only their authenticity.
Last edited by DabbingIsSoMuchFun on Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Were there any mentions of the Holocaust in Churchill et al?

Post by DabbingIsSoMuchFun » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:40 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:35 pm
Daniel, thank you for your reply but if you cut and paste could you quote your sources. In the case above this is from
"Milestones to Disaster". The Second World War: Winston Churchill
It is most likely that the Germans were goaded as it was Churchill who started the whole thing basically. The tragedy is that the deaths of 80 million people could have been avoided but Churchill being drunk most of the time wanted a pissing competition; their young men killing our young men. It is a shame the Yanks butted in as Her Majesty being a vassal of the third Reich with the Hakenkreuz flying on London Bridge would be a rather nice sight.


Please do try to stay on-topic. Unless you came here because someone quoted you, and are here to respond to them, anything else should be relegated to another topic.
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Re: Were there any mentions of the Holocaust in Churchill et al?

Post by Huntinger » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:59 pm

The topic is not clearly defined with no thread intention just a title which is somewhat ambiguous. You do not say who can who cannot post here but as you started the topic please say what your intention is and where you intend the thread to go.
Actually, the majority of people killed were Jews, as Churchill specifically mentions 'execution camps'
Even if 6 million Jews were deceased, they would still only make up 7.5% of the total deaths. It would seem that Mr Churchill is using propaganda to demonize one group to perhaps hide his own involvement which Mr Irving has exposed. This has to be propaganda and made up because there are no documents from MI6 files or other Intelligence files which mention the camps or executions (there is a thread on this); these documents have all been declassified. The only information Churchill would have got was from the Polish spy Witold Pilecki , who reported some Auschwiz propaganda to the Polish Government in Exile. No doubt they informed Churchill. I have Churchills works which goes to about 5 volumes from memory; after readings Irvings thoughts one must re read Churchill again with a different lens. Churchill from memory never used the world Holocaust as that term came much later, more towards Spielbergs time. It used to be referred to as the Jewish Genocide.

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Re: Were there any mentions of the Holocaust in Churchill et al?

Post by Daniel » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:39 pm

Huntinger, I fixed my post.

Dabbling,

Was 6-7 million the settled number at the time for Jewish dead?

The Nazis executed enemies of the Reich, which included a good number of Jews who were Marxists. But Jews were not executed as Jews.

There's no broader definition of the Holocaust that includes non-Jewish dead.

Do you mean you want to know if this is an authentic quote from Churchill? Yes, it is.

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Re: Were there any mentions of the Holocaust in Churchill et al?

Post by Huntinger » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:50 pm

Daniel wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:39 pm
Huntinger, I fixed my post.

Dabbling,

Was 6-7 million the settled number at the time for Jewish dead?

The Nazis executed enemies of the Reich, which included a good number of Jews who were Marxists. But Jews were not executed as Jews.

There's no broader definition of the Holocaust that includes non-Jewish dead.

Do you mean you want to know if this is an authentic quote from Churchill? Yes, it is.
Thank you Daniel now it is perfectly clear what you intended to say. That 6 million figure had been around for many Moons even when Herr Hitler was learning the Ländler at "General Vanier Elementary" in Österreich. You can see the thread on the six million in the "Lounge" and has appeared every single time Jude have been caught up in conflicts usually of their own doing. It is a fact that Jude were deported as potential 5th columnists and put to work. The Bolshevik Jude were treated in a different manner due to their inclusion in the Commissar order; they were executed as terrorists due to Partizan activity although some innocents got caught up especially due to the actions of "Oskar Dirlewangers" somewhat limited intellectual viscious murderous gang of thugs. They were not SS but to those being murdered that made little difference.

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