Polish massacres of ethnic Germans pre-1939?

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Polish massacres of ethnic Germans pre-1939?

Post by been-there » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:17 pm

What information of Polish massacres of ethnic Germans pre-1939 exists?

Places they occurred, dates, sources of info, etc.

Any help gratefully received.
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Re: Polish massacres of ethnic Germans pre-1939?

Post by Werd » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:02 pm

This was debated fiercely from pages 39 to 55 of Nazi attitudes towards the Slavs.

I thought these two books would have solved the issue. Goody, who is a believer in the Gleiwitz hoax that Veronica Clark debunked by shredding Naujocks post war testimony among other things, tried citing other things to claim there was nothing the Nazis felt was worth reporting since they apparently didn't. According to a book that Goody found on page 42, atrocities were happening even on the 1st of September, not just starting on Bromberg massacre on 3rd of September. Naturally he ignored it. He did claim of those two books that I found: "I have skimmed through both books, they both predominantly focus on the Bromberg massacre. There is no mention of any pre-WW2 massacres." Of the book Der Tod in Poland it was claimed two main things: "The deportation and expulsion and the mass murder of the ethnic Germans before and at the beginning of the war in Poland was by no means confined to the "Bloody Sunday of Bromberg" and "The German invasion was Sep 1939, but it's important to understand that many of the outrages had preceded the German invasion. This was proved by the amount of decomposition of the bodies. Thus, these atrocities cannot be excused simply as reprisals for the German invasion (which would be wrong anyway). They included 19 year-old girls with their faces smashed, amputations, disembowelments, shot thru' the eye, death-trauma births, you name it. Poles had been merrily slaughtering anything or anybody German since at least as early as April 1939". Of course, as can be seen starting on page 47, many links to Stormfront posts had people contesting that the decay on the bodies proved that they were slaughtered before Bromberg massacre. Goody then said there is no proof in any of the white and blue German books (that he linked to here later) that anything serious was being committed by the Poles pre-war. However according to a quote from Unconditioned Canuck on Stormfront, that is incorrect.

So this is where rodoh last left off with the debate.

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Re: Polish massacres of ethnic Germans pre-1939?

Post by Rev2018 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:07 pm

I think it will be difficult to find any documentation detailing Polish massacres of ethnic Germans in pre-war Poland because they were probably not recorded. The hostility of Poles towards Germans was (and in fact still is) unimaginable so the massacres must have happened. But ethnic Germans were completely defenseless and unsupported in Poland. To understand the level of hatred harbored by Poles towards Germans it is important to read an excellent article on the topic here:

https://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scrip ... .html#ref3

Hatred towards Germans was (and still is) taught at schools and preached in churches and it does influence people who become brainwashed very early in their lives.

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Re: Polish massacres of ethnic Germans pre-1939?

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:20 pm

I believe there was a massacre of eight Germans in Bielitz (Bielska-Biala) before the war which Beck categorically denied when he met Hitler early in 1939.

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Re: Polish massacres of ethnic Germans pre-1939?

Post by Rev2018 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:10 pm

Josef Beck lied on many occasions about the situation of ethnic German minority in Poland. So why would he say the truth this time? Here is an interesting book about the situation of different minorities in pre-war Poland and the situation on the whole:

https://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scrip ... pfi00.html

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Re: Polish massacres of ethnic Germans pre-1939?

Post by DabbingIsSoMuchFun » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:47 pm

As far as I know, the first massacre of Gdansk was the one perpetrated by the Teutonic Knights in 1308 against Poles.


By consequence, I am not aware of any massacre perpetrated by Poland against Germans in 1939, or pre-1939.
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Re: Polish massacres of ethnic Germans pre-1939?

Post by zionist-occupation » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:19 am

Pages 155-175 in Walendy's Truth for Germany provides both primary and secondary sources on Polish attitudes towards the German minorities.
https://ia800303.us.archive.org/18/item ... NDYeng.pdf

Here's three citations that I found interesting:
“German protests were of no avail (No. 360). At the beginning of April, a
public appeal proclaiming the general program[me] for de-Germanization of
the country was circulated throughout Poland
(No. 358). Towards the middle
of April, the first German fugitives crossed the frontier (No. 359). It was
practically impossible for the Consulates to report every individual case (No.
361). Anti-German agitation raged unchecked in Upper Silesia (No. 362).
Reports from the German Consuls were full of terrorist acts (No. 363). The
Polish Insurgents Society gave the orders for these actions (No. 364). On May
6, the Consul-General in Kattowitz reported two hundred acts of terror (No.
365) and on May 19, another hundred, all of which had occurred in Upper
Silesia alone
(No. 372). All Germans were in fear of their lives and property.
Terrorism spread also to Congress Poland and was intensified by systematic
acts of incendiarism (No. 366). The last strongholds of German culture were
destroyed (No. 369, 373, 374, 377, 379, 383, 385, 390, 391, 399, etc.). In
despair, the German minority appealed to the Polish President (No. 369). The
British Government, although kept informed by the German Embassy in London
of the nature of these developments which inevitably endangered peace (No.
368), remained inactive. Towards the middle of May, anti-German
demonstrations developed into pogroms, in the course of which thousands of
Germans were hunted “like unprotected game”
(Nos. 370, 371). The number
of fugitives increased (No. 374) as did Polish “sabre-rattling”, the declaration
of annexationist war aims (Nos. 367, 378) and public insults and affronts to
the Fuehrer which led to renewed protests (No. 382). In the commercial world,
German co-operative societies, dairies and pharmacies were systematically
liquidated (Nos. 380, 395). On June 7 a report from Lodz stated: “The threat
of death, torture etc., for German nationals, has become an everyday matter of
course.” Whole families, because of constant threats of murder, passed their
nights in the shelter of the woods
(No. 381).
The only answer to protests lodged with the Polish Foreign Office was a
shrug of the shoulders and the tacit avowal that nothing could be done against
the military authorities and Polish chauvinism (Nos. 382, 385). …
Polish bishops were requested by a colonel on the General Staff to pray “that
the time of tribulation for our Polish brethren beyond the frontier might be shortened
and that another Grunwald might release them from bondage” (No. 392).…
Time and time again the authorities themselves proved to be responsible
for this process of liquidation (No. 396). …
Germans in Galicia were faced with annihilation; the outlook was hopeless,
and they were threatened with arson and murder
(No. 407). What was left
undone by open terrorism was made up for by an insupportable burden of
taxes and chicanery on the part of the authorities (No. 408).” 16)
Source: “German White Book” pp. XVIII, XIX. / English edit. pp. CXLII-CXLIV
The first blood that was flowing before the start of the Second World War was
the blood of minority Germans in Poland. In spite of the German-Soviet NonAggression Pact and the tension in Polish-Soviet relations, the Poles did not shy
away from intensifying the persecution of the Germans and the anti-German
campaign in the press. By mid-August, 76,535 Germans had already fled to the
Reich
40) though certainly not because Hitler had forced them. The Germans in
Poland had 20,000 dead to mourn before and after the start of the clashes, of
whom 12,500 could be identified by name.
41) That would mean nearly double the
death toll of Volksdeutsche through murder than German soldiers killed during
the entire Poland campaign (10,572). These excesses could not be excused under
the pretext that it was the case of the Polish government losing their grip on a
“mass-movement” getting out of hand.
40) A. Buckreis, op. cit., p. 223.
41) Seraphim, Maurach, Wolfrum, Ostwärts von Oder und Neisse, p. 43; P. Aurich, Der deutschpolnische September 1939, p. 5 seq.
“The operation against the Germans had been methodically prepared; it
had been ordered!
Not that these victims were put straight before a firing-squad – these
massacres of the Germans were never based on any title of law − without
cause they were shot, without cause tortured to death, beaten and stabbed and
most of them, in addition, were savagely mutilated: these were deliberate
murders
, mostly committed by Polish soldiers, policemen and gendarmes, as
well as by armed civilians, grammar school pupils and apprentices…”
Source: H.E. Jahn, Pommersche Passion, p. 243 – further details seq., and P. Aurich, op. cit.

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Re: Polish massacres of ethnic Germans pre-1939?

Post by DabbingIsSoMuchFun » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:00 am

zionist-occupation wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:19 am
Pages 155-175 in Walendy's Truth for Germany provides both primary and secondary sources on Polish attitudes towards the German minorities.
https://ia800303.us.archive.org/18/item ... NDYeng.pdf

Here's three citations that I found interesting:
“German protests were of no avail (No. 360). At the beginning of April, a
public appeal proclaiming the general program[me] for de-Germanization of
the country was circulated throughout Poland
(No. 358). Towards the middle
of April, the first German fugitives crossed the frontier (No. 359). It was
practically impossible for the Consulates to report every individual case (No.
361). Anti-German agitation raged unchecked in Upper Silesia (No. 362).
Reports from the German Consuls were full of terrorist acts (No. 363). The
Polish Insurgents Society gave the orders for these actions (No. 364). On May
6, the Consul-General in Kattowitz reported two hundred acts of terror (No.
365) and on May 19, another hundred, all of which had occurred in Upper
Silesia alone
(No. 372). All Germans were in fear of their lives and property.
Terrorism spread also to Congress Poland and was intensified by systematic
acts of incendiarism (No. 366). The last strongholds of German culture were
destroyed (No. 369, 373, 374, 377, 379, 383, 385, 390, 391, 399, etc.). In
despair, the German minority appealed to the Polish President (No. 369). The
British Government, although kept informed by the German Embassy in London
of the nature of these developments which inevitably endangered peace (No.
368), remained inactive. Towards the middle of May, anti-German
demonstrations developed into pogroms, in the course of which thousands of
Germans were hunted “like unprotected game”
(Nos. 370, 371). The number
of fugitives increased (No. 374) as did Polish “sabre-rattling”, the declaration
of annexationist war aims (Nos. 367, 378) and public insults and affronts to
the Fuehrer which led to renewed protests (No. 382). In the commercial world,
German co-operative societies, dairies and pharmacies were systematically
liquidated (Nos. 380, 395). On June 7 a report from Lodz stated: “The threat
of death, torture etc., for German nationals, has become an everyday matter of
course.” Whole families, because of constant threats of murder, passed their
nights in the shelter of the woods
(No. 381).
The only answer to protests lodged with the Polish Foreign Office was a
shrug of the shoulders and the tacit avowal that nothing could be done against
the military authorities and Polish chauvinism (Nos. 382, 385). …
Polish bishops were requested by a colonel on the General Staff to pray “that
the time of tribulation for our Polish brethren beyond the frontier might be shortened
and that another Grunwald might release them from bondage” (No. 392).…
Time and time again the authorities themselves proved to be responsible
for this process of liquidation (No. 396). …
Germans in Galicia were faced with annihilation; the outlook was hopeless,
and they were threatened with arson and murder
(No. 407). What was left
undone by open terrorism was made up for by an insupportable burden of
taxes and chicanery on the part of the authorities (No. 408).” 16)
Source: “German White Book” pp. XVIII, XIX. / English edit. pp. CXLII-CXLIV
The first blood that was flowing before the start of the Second World War was
the blood of minority Germans in Poland. In spite of the German-Soviet NonAggression Pact and the tension in Polish-Soviet relations, the Poles did not shy
away from intensifying the persecution of the Germans and the anti-German
campaign in the press. By mid-August, 76,535 Germans had already fled to the
Reich
40) though certainly not because Hitler had forced them. The Germans in
Poland had 20,000 dead to mourn before and after the start of the clashes, of
whom 12,500 could be identified by name.
41) That would mean nearly double the
death toll of Volksdeutsche through murder than German soldiers killed during
the entire Poland campaign (10,572). These excesses could not be excused under
the pretext that it was the case of the Polish government losing their grip on a
“mass-movement” getting out of hand.
40) A. Buckreis, op. cit., p. 223.
41) Seraphim, Maurach, Wolfrum, Ostwärts von Oder und Neisse, p. 43; P. Aurich, Der deutschpolnische September 1939, p. 5 seq.
“The operation against the Germans had been methodically prepared; it
had been ordered!
Not that these victims were put straight before a firing-squad – these
massacres of the Germans were never based on any title of law − without
cause they were shot, without cause tortured to death, beaten and stabbed and
most of them, in addition, were savagely mutilated: these were deliberate
murders
, mostly committed by Polish soldiers, policemen and gendarmes, as
well as by armed civilians, grammar school pupils and apprentices…”
Source: H.E. Jahn, Pommersche Passion, p. 243 – further details seq., and P. Aurich, op. cit.



(Addressing 'in-bold' parts only)



Poland was on-going a Germanization process when occupied by Prussia. Hence, the Poles wanted to 're-polanized' their country.







As for the rest, where are your sources?


Are these reports liable and not prone to exaggeration or even outight lying?


What were they meant for?


Did they even exist?
Holocaust-Leugnung ist keine Geschichte!

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Re: Polish massacres of ethnic Germans pre-1939?

Post by zionist-occupation » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:31 pm

Poland was on-going a Germanization process when occupied by Prussia. Hence, the Poles wanted to 're-polanized' their country.
Alright, so you admit that Poles had the intention of ethnic cleansing.
As for the rest, where are your sources?
Go back and read.

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Re: Polish massacres of ethnic Germans pre-1939?

Post by Werd » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:14 pm

Goody doesn't think those Nazi Germans which talk about Poles attacking innocent Germans (as cited in Walendy's footnotes) were telling the truth. Since Goody is restricted to Siberia, you may want to go and continue with him there. This is what he recently said down in Siberia.

The false claim that the Poles massacred ethnic Germans before WW2
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3600
Goody67 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:27 pm


zionist-occupation has now cited the infamous denier Udo Walendy as evidence for the claim.

What was wrong with the Poles wanting to get rid of the Germanisation of their country? Take your own advice and read about how the Germans treated the Poles during the Partitions of Poland.

In the 1920s alone the German authorities had deported around 200,000 people that were native Polish speakers. By 1937 the Nazis were suppressing any Polish activity and in August 1939 the leaders of the Polish groups were arrested and sent to concentration camps.

"Germans in Galicia were faced with annihilation; the outlook was hopeless, and they were threatened with arson and murder" was an opinion by the Nazis in their book. There is no evidence that the Poles were going to kill the Germans in Galicia.

The further quotes should be quoted in full:
The first blood that was flowing before the start of the Second World War was the blood of minority Germans in Poland. In spite of the German-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact and the tension in Polish-Soviet relations, the Poles did not shy away from intensifying the persecution of the Germans and the anti-German campaign in the press. By mid-August, 76,535 Germans had already fled to the Reich 40) though certainly not because Hitler had forced them. The Germans in Poland had 20,000 dead to mourn before and after the start of the clashes, of whom 12,500 could be identified by name. 41 ' That would mean nearly double the death toll of Volksdeutsche through murder than German soldiers killed during the entire Poland campaign (10,572). These excesses could not be excused under the pretext that it was the case of the Polish government losing their grip on a "mass-movement" getting out of hand. The Polish leadership had been working systematically for months, yes, even years, towards this very end!

"The operation against the Germans had been methodically prepared; it had been ordered! Not that these victims were put straight before a firing-squad - these massacres of the Germans were never based on any title of law - without cause they were shot, without cause tortured to death, beaten and stabbed and most of them, in addition, were savagely mutilated: these were deliberate murders, mostly committed by Polish soldiers, policemen and gendarmes, as well as by armed civilians, grammar school pupils and apprentices..." 42)
I'd like to see proof that the Poles had killed 20,000 Germans before the start of WW2. I'd also like to see the 12,500 names.

I'd like to see proof that it had been "methodically prepared" and "ordered". How does Walendy know that they were tortured, beaten, stabbed, etc?

The source 41 is, "Seraphim, Maurach, Wolfrum, OstwUrts von Oder und Neisse, p. 43; P. Aurich, Der deutsch-
polnische September 1939, p. 5 seq." A Google search brings up nothing but Walendy's book.

The source no. 42 is H.E. Jahn, Pommersche Passion, p. 243 - further details seq., and P. Aurich, op. cit.

Jahn was a former Nazi Party member. Are people supposed to take Walendy seriously when he is just quoting other Nazis? :lol: If anyone has Jahn's book then I'd like to see what he wrote about the incidents and the sources he used.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3584#p142495

The infamous denier Udo Walendy's book "Truth for Germany" is just neo-Nazi bullshit that tried to portray the Nazis as angels and that everyone else was at fault but the Nazis. One can read the bullshit here:

https://archive.org/stream/TruthForGerm ... g_djvu.txt

zionist-occupation, you are going to have to do better than what you have come up with so far. The claim has been used by deniers for quite a while now, even the retard Dennis Wise in his stupid so-called documentary "The Greatest Story Never Told" made the false claim as well.

I don't know how many times deniers need to be told, there is no evidence that the Poles massacred ethnic Germans prior to WW2 and that is why the Nazis invaded Poland.

The Nazis themselves never even made the stupid claim!!!

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