If The Axis Didn't Exterminate The Jews...

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Trolljegeren
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Re: If The Axis Didn't Exterminate The Jews...

Post by Trolljegeren » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:35 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:01 am


I can't tell if Dabbing is actually that ignorant or, like Nessie, just plain lying.
It is fooling around for the entertainment of Statistical mechanic as evidenced on the almost defunct forum. They are laughing at its antics. I think that says it all.

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Re: If The Axis Didn't Exterminate The Jews...

Post by blake121666 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:59 pm

The boundaries of T-II are still laid out and you can see them in google maps. As I explained in this post where I showed how to calculate the area covered over by monument (ostensibly having been the part that contained the alleged burial space of whole bodies - not ashes), if you go to this site:

Google Maps Area Calculator

click on "Load The Map" and input "treblinka ii" in the "Find a location" text box, you can then zoom out and see the boundaries of Treblinka-II.

I'll make it easy for you and show you a screen capture of the result:

Image

As you can see the area of T-II was
172844.26 m² | 0.17 km² | 42.71 acres | 17.28 hectares | 1860480.10 feet² | 0.07 square miles | 0.05 square nautical miles
The area of the large covered part of the monument - which is the only part which could conceivably have pits that could have contained the corpses before they were burned is about 2.65 acres.

Image

The covered area could easily contain the ashes you keep talking about. The better question is the volume that needs to be found that would've contained the corpses prior to their burning. Were there approximately 10 meter deep pits under this covered area? This is what needs to be found out.

I would take it as a given that the ashes would've been deposited into the volume cleared out of the corpses that were burned - and would take up much less space of course. One needs to show the grave volume for whole corpses - not just ashes.

EDIT: Carolyn Sturdy-Colls measured the boundaries to have been a little larger. Here is her estimation of the camp boundaries from her dissertation, p 157:

Image

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Re: If The Axis Didn't Exterminate The Jews...

Post by blake121666 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:03 pm

DabbingIsSoMuchFun wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:34 pm
Again, the 900 000 figure is a high-end estimate, the true figure is probably in between, but I understand.



No genius, we don't need 90 million tons of wood to burn 900 000 bodies. Do you really think the Germans would burn each body individually? Like I stated, at its peak, some 12 000 bodies were burned.


You need about 75 tons of wood to kill that many people assuming the peak is kept, so we'll add 100 more out of nowhere just to compensate.

175 tons of wood - over a period of time - is absolutely feasible.


That's also assuming there was no wood to use previously.




This is too easy. Just give up, please.
Using the extremely efficient air-curtain incineration of carcasses, you need about 1-2 times the weight of the carcasses in wood to burn those carcasses:

Image

So you'd need about 100 kg/corpse * 12,000 corpses = 1,200,000 kg = 1200 tonnes to burn 12,000 corpses = about 7 times the wood you are saying (with efficient air-curtain incineration).

According to wikipedia, the T-II corpses were burned from about mid-March until the end of July, '43. So it took about 4 months (= about 120 days) to burn 900,000 corpses - or an average of about 7500 per day = about half the rate of what you are saying.

How did you derive the 175 tons wood for 12,000 corpses figure?

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Re: If The Axis Didn't Exterminate The Jews...

Post by Turnagain » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:20 pm

If the M&H model Mb was used to excavate Wiernik's 10X25X50 meter graves as claimed by ARC, the resulting stockpile would be almost 600 meters long. That's using 15 feet as the maximum height of the stockpile. You can increase the height of the stockpile to as much as 20 feet and the stockpile will still extend for well over 300 meters. The graves plus the attendant stockpiles of ex would have taken up much more space than the 2.65 acres under the concrete.

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Re: If The Axis Didn't Exterminate The Jews...

Post by Trolljegeren » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:28 pm

DabbingIsSoMuchFun wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:34 pm

You need about 75 tons of wood to kill that many people assuming the peak is kept, so we'll add 100 more out of nowhere just to compensate.

175 tons of wood - over a period of time - is absolutely feasible.
175 000kg to burn 900 000 bodies which amounts to roughly 5kg per body from your figures. Totally absurd. The estimates are 100kg per corpse to reduce it to ash. Lets redo the figures 900 000 bodies x 100kg per body =90 000 000kg or 90 000 tonne.
Each tree is on average 6 tonne so that amounts to about 15 000 trees. Just to get rid of the moisture of a body takes 100MJ of thermal energy. The wood burned in the open has an efficiency of about 20% which means if dry it has an energy output of about 5MJ per kg. Your 5kg of wood per body would only give 25MJ of thermal energy which would not even boil the moisture of a leg let alone cremate a corpse. I think you should use the scientific method.

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Re: If The Axis Didn't Exterminate The Jews...

Post by Trolljegeren » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:32 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:20 pm
If the M&H model Mb was used to excavate Wiernik's 10X25X50 meter graves as claimed by ARC, the resulting stockpile would be almost 600 meters long. That's using 15 feet as the maximum height of the stockpile. You can increase the height of the stockpile to as much as 20 feet and the stockpile will still extend for well over 300 meters. The graves plus the attendant stockpiles of ex would have taken up much more space than the 2.65 acres under the concrete.
I calculated the amount of ash produced by all these bodies and trees would fill 6 Olympic size swimming pools. If you covered the area of 42 acres for TII and went down 6 metres this would be a suitable pit. Of course there were buildings so the area for burial is considerably less. Of course all the trees felled would take an extensive logging operation which would be recorded in the minds of the locals but there are no reports of this massive understaking. There is also the huge problem of burning very green wood.
In the calculations I was generous estimating 100kg of wood are needed to cremate a human body. This is far more realistic than the 5kg estimated by the new poster. Hindu funeral pyres: according to these, between 300 and 600 kg of firewood is required to cremate a single body. The firewood at Treblinka was pines and there is evidence of a small amount felled probably for construction purposes. https://codoh.com/library/document/1912/?lang=en

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Re: If The Axis Didn't Exterminate The Jews...

Post by Turnagain » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:46 pm

You forget, Trolljegeren, that very little wood was used to cremate the bodies. Just some kindling, twigs or brush was used to set the cadavers ablaze. That's according to the hoaxers, of course.

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Re: If The Axis Didn't Exterminate The Jews...

Post by Nisco » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:04 pm

Trolljegeren:
It is fooling around for the entertainment of Statistical mechanic as evidenced on the almost defunct forum. They are laughing at its antics. I think that says it all.
I knew we were dealing with a child suffering from mental illness. It didn't take long to bitch-slap him back to the "skeptics" forum though, did it?


:lol:


DabbingIsSoMuchFun:
I'm afraid of nothing. [Except Greg Gerdes, The Holocaust Archaeology Hoax Challenge, the Mass Graves / Buried Remains Forensic Evaluation Form and this simple fact that, no matter how hard I try, I can't refute:

It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive allegations to the contrary, the truth is; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the - one hundred - graves / cremation pits that are alleged to have been scientifically proven to currently exist at these sites, in which verified human remains have been tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology; contained the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE!]
Thank you for joining us Statistical mechanic. Sorry for treating you so roughly, but DULLusional cowards like you have to have the truth slapped around your ears and shoved down your throats now and then, don't they?

Oh, BTW Statistical mechanic, I have a going away present for you:

Image

:lol:

Say hi to all the DULLusional cowards at the "skeptics" forum for me, will you?

:lol:

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Re: If The Axis Didn't Exterminate The Jews...

Post by Trolljegeren » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:30 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:46 pm
You forget, Trolljegeren, that very little wood was used to cremate the bodies. Just some kindling, twigs or brush was used to set the cadavers ablaze. That's according to the hoaxers, of course.
Oh yeah sorry, and I almost forgot what Nessie implied that if you stack em high and light a match the "wick effect" will set em up alight like a Saturn V rocket. It is a wonder Werner von Braun did not use Jude fat for his V2 wonderweapon This would have saved half of the Jude getting pissed on he job and the other half dying when methanol was added. Of course it is the Germans fault for poisoning their rocket fuel booze. Those damn evil Nazi basterds.

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Re: If The Axis Didn't Exterminate The Jews...

Post by blake121666 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:02 pm

According to wikipedia,
Typically between 0.43 and 1.82 percent of the mass of burned wood (dry basis) results in ash.[5]

5. Misra MK, Ragland KW, Baker AJ (1993). "Wood Ash Composition as a Function of Furnace Temperature" (PDF). Biomass and Bioenergy. 4 (2): 103–116.
So burning 900,000 corpses would give about 2 kg per corpse in cremains => about 2 million kg cremains. And the 100 kg per corpse of wood used per corpse would produce about 1 kg ash per corpse => about 1 million kg wood ash. So altogether about 3 million kg ash to dispose of. Wood ash has a density under 1000 kg/m^3 but let's just use 1000 kg/m^3 for this 3 million kg. The space needed for the ash would be about 3,000 m^3. An olympic swimming pool has a volume of 2500 m^3. So only about one olympic swimming pool would be needed for this ash. If the ash were spread over 2 acres, it'd only be about 1 meter deep. The big covered part of the monument is about 2.65 meters covered. Not a big deal like you are making out. Less than a meter depth needed under the monument. The depth of the pits needed to have been under that monument need to have been about 10 times this to have held over 700,000 corpses.

EDIT: If spread throughout the whole camp (which is about 42 acres) as you were discussing earlier in the thread, we 're talking about an inch or two of ash.
Last edited by blake121666 on Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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