Flawed Revisionist technical arguments

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Re: Flawed Revisionist technical arguments

Post by Depth Check » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:23 am

Goody67 is now banned from the Holocaust forum. I will deal with the off topic posts when I return home in a couple of days and have a screen larger than my phone to work with.

:)

[Edit: several bad tempered and off topic posts have been moved to Siberia.]

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Re: Flawed Revisionist technical arguments

Post by Scott » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:52 am

Excellent. Thank you , everyone. I think we are back on track.

But, briefly, it is not even disputed that I was taken out by motorized Mossad operatives on my pedicycle many years ago and replaced "by an Israeli guy," meaning a robot manufactured in a laboratory somewhere in Tel Aviv or somewhere like that. Many who are no longer with us could confirm it if they were still with us.

And remember that certain, um, certain, um, certain, um--glitch--certain trolling MATTERS can be taken downstairs, and they won't be allowed to derail.

Bruhahahahah.

:mrgreen:

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historian – England

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Diesels (again??) for Mass Murder by the Nazis

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:59 am

Here is some of what I have had to say regarding Achim Trunk and his technically-stupid work on diesel exhaust for mass murder: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=6891

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at: http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

There were NO “limited gassings!” There were NO homicidal Nazi Gassings at all!

http://www.nazigassings.com/Railroad.html
The REAL Mass Murderers were the Anglo-Americans and the Jews themselves!
Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Flawed Revisionist technical arguments

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:36 pm

Contrary to what Achim Trunk and the fools at "Holocaust Controversies" imagine, Kurt Gerstein was NOT alone in imagining that Diesel exhaust was used by the Germans for mass murder. The Soviets in 1943 also believed and even promoted this utter nonsense.

Re: Hans vs Friedrich debate!

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:01 pm
It is so nice to see that we all agree that "diesel exhaust" would NOT have been the way to commit mass murder. Until 2008, however, there was almost universal agreement within the holocaust community that diesel exhaust was used to murder about two million Jews. It was the Soviets themselves who insisted that diesel exhaust was the gas which killed the "gas van" victims. Did the Soviets lie? Why would they do that?

In 1943 the Soviets held show trials to convince the world that the Germans had been using gas vans to murder Soviet citizens with the exhaust gases from diesel engines. The proceedings at Krasnodar and Kharkov are described in The Verdict. From the indictment for the Krasnodar trial on page 49 we have the following:

Medico-legal experts who exhumed and examined bodies found in an anti-tank ditch near Krasnodar stated in their postmortem findings on 29th June, 1943: “The skin, skeletal muscles and mucous membranes of lips, stomach, intestines, pericardium and peritoneum were either a pale pink or bright cherry colour, also noted in some cases in sections of internal organs such as the kidneys, lungs and heart. Spectroscopic and chemical examinations of the blood and portions of organs removed for biopsy showed that in 523 cases out of 623 bodies, death was caused by carbon monoxide poisoning.” As established by the investigation similar “gas lorries,” which were nicknamed “murder vans,” were used by the Germans for murdering peaceful Soviet citizens not only in Krasnodar but also in Kharkov. These vans, as testified by the German defendants in the present case and also by witnesses who witnessed the crimes committed by the Germans, are large closed trucks of dark grey colour, driven by Diesel engines. The vans are lined inside with galvanized iron and have air-tight folding doors at the back. The floor is equipped with a wooden grating under which passes a pipe with apertures. This pipe is connected to the exhaust pipe of the engine. The exhaust gases of the Diesel engine, containing highly concentrated carbon monoxide, enter the body of the van, causing rapid poisoning and asphyxiation of the people locked up in the van.

The Soviets even got the appearance of the victims right--"pale pink or bright cherry color"--which is far more than can be said for any of the self-described "eyewitnesses" from any of the AR camps.

So, Hans, why should any sane person reject the Soviet claims from 1943 and choose contrary claims instead made after the war and far, far away under dubious circumstances? Why should any sane person believe any of this CRAP--even for Hadamar? Were there any autopsies, credible ones, conducted anywhere or observed by credible witnesses to support any of these claims? Of course, not!

By contrast, the Germans had conducted autopsies with many foreign observers, including Polish clergy, at Katyn just months earlier of the thousands of Polish officers murdered there by the Soviets. Here is a link showing something about the Katyn Massacre investigation conducted by the Germans:
https://www.archives.gov/research/forei ... n-massacre

It is quite different from what the Soviets conducted later. The Germans at Katyn showed the world just how a mass murder investigtion should be conducted. The Soviets pretended to do something comprable regardiung "gas vans" just a few months later--but it was a farce instead.


The possible dangers of explosion with producer gas are minimal compared to what Hans alleges--and that is why the Germans actually used and seemed to even prefer producer gas vehicles to transport ammunition and even flammable liquids and fuels. It is all rigorously spelled out in typical German fashion with "Safety Guidelines for Producer Gas Vehicles" as follows: http://www.nazigassings.com/SafetyGuidelines.htm

E) Bei der Beförderung von explosiblen und leicht brennbaren Stoffen

1. Bei beladenem Fahrzeug ist die Gasprobe durch Anzünden verboten.

2. Beim Entaschen des Gaserzeugers ist die Asche vorsichtig in einem Blechkasten zu entleeren. Funkenflug vermeiden! Glühende Asche ist entweder zu löschen oder so zu beseitigen, daß sie von etwa nachkommenden Fahrzeugen nicht aufgewirbelt oder vom Wind auf diese zugetrieben wird.

Außerdem :

I. Bei Beförderung von Munition und Sprengstoffen

1. Wird bei Märschen ein Halten der beladenen Fahrzeuge notwendig, so müssen die einzelnen Fahrzeuge einen Abstand von mindestens 50 m voneinander einhalten.

2. Jeder Führer eines Gaserzeuger-Kraftfahrzeugs hat sich bei der Einfahrt in Heeresmunitionsniederlagen und Munitionslagern beim Sicherheitsoffizier zu melden und den ihm gegebenen Anweisungen Folge zu leisten. Es dürfen nur die vom Sicherheitsoffizier benannten Wege befahren werden.

3. Vor Einfahrt in die Heeresmunitionsanstalten usw, ist der Gaserzeuger zu entaschen und festzustellen, ob er noch mit genügend Brennstoff beschickt ist, so daß das Fahrzeug unter allen Umständen ohne Nachfüllen wieder herausfahren kann.

Innerhalb von Heeresemunitionsanstalten usw. darf kein Kraftstoff in den Gaserzeuger nachgefüllt und der Gaserzeuger nicht entascht werden, auch das Öffnen des Aschekastens, der Einfüllöffnung und sonstiger Verschlüsse des Gaserzeugers ist verboten.

Ist ein längerer Stillstand des Fahrzeugs innerhalb der Heeresmunitionsanstalten usw, und damit das Einschalten des Anfachgebläses unvermeidlich, so darf auf keinen Fall die Gasprobe am Gebläsestutzen durch Anzünden vorgenommen werden, der Motor ist erst dann anzulassen, wenn erfahrungsgemäß mit brennbarem Gas gerechnet werden kann.


II. Bei Beförderung von brennbaren Flüssigkeiten und brennbaren Gasen

1. Es muß vermieden werden, daß in den Behältern flüssige Kraftstoffe und für brennbare Gase auf dem Fahrzeug gefährliche Temperatur - und damit Drucksteigerungen auftreten können. Wenn eine wärmeisolierende Trennwand (Abstand vom Gaserzeuger mindestens 15 m) nicht vorhanden ist, muß das Ladegut mindestens 50 cm vom Gaserzeuger entfernt gelagert und so festgelegt werden, daß es sich nicht zum Gaserzeuger hin verschieben kann.

2. Das Öffnen von Behältern für flüssige Kraftstoffe und brennbare Gase auf dem Gaserzeuger-Kraftfahrzeug ist verboten. Das Abfüllen aus den Behältern darf nur in einer Entfernung von mindestens 10 m vom Gaserzeuger, und zwar auf der dem Wind abgekehrten Seite, vorgenommen werden.

3. Beladene Gaserzeuger-Kraftfahrzeuge dürfen nicht in geschlossene Räume eingestellt werden.

Eventually, I will provide an English translation of the relevant "Safety Guidelines." For now, however, Hans and others should try to make it through the German text for themselves.

The dangers from exploding producer gas vehicles is not that great to begin with since the amount of explosive gas in an open area (away from a garage and outside of any enclosed space) consists of merely the gas in the few feet of hose or piping from the gas generator tank to the engine. In other words, the possibly explosive gas consists of no more than a few gallons of gas--at most. By contrast, the dangers of exploding gasoline or liquid diesel fuel powered trucks is far greater since the fuel tanks could alone contain many tens of gallons of highly flammable and explosive liquid fuel. Enemy air attacks or artillery could easily unleash a holocaust if the liquid fuel tanks were ruptured--but ONLY a small fire, at least generally depending on the cargo, if a producer gas vehicle were hit.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at: http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
There were NO “limited gassings!” There were NO homicidal Nazi Gassings at all!
http://www.nazigassings.com/Railroad.html
The REAL Mass Murderers were the Anglo-Americans and the Jews themselves!
FPBerg

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Re: Flawed Revisionist technical arguments

Post by Trolljegeren » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:46 pm

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:36 pm
Contrary to what Achim Trunk and the fools at "Holocaust Controversies" imagine, Kurt Gerstein was NOT alone in imagining that Diesel exhaust was used by the Germans for mass murder. The Soviets in 1943 also believed and even promoted this utter nonsense.

Re: Hans vs Friedrich debate!

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:01 pm
It is so nice to see that we all agree that "diesel exhaust" would NOT have been the way to commit mass murder. Until 2008, however, there was almost universal agreement within the holocaust community that diesel exhaust was used to murder about two million Jews. It was the Soviets themselves who insisted that diesel exhaust was the gas which killed the "gas van" victims. Did the Soviets lie? Why would they do that?

In 1943 the Soviets held show trials to convince the world that the Germans had been using gas vans to murder Soviet citizens with the exhaust gases from diesel engines. The proceedings at Krasnodar and Kharkov are described in The Verdict. From the indictment for the Krasnodar trial on page 49 we have the following:

Medico-legal experts who exhumed and examined bodies found in an anti-tank ditch near Krasnodar stated in their postmortem findings on 29th June, 1943: “The skin, skeletal muscles and mucous membranes of lips, stomach, intestines, pericardium and peritoneum were either a pale pink or bright cherry colour, also noted in some cases in sections of internal organs such as the kidneys, lungs and heart. Spectroscopic and chemical examinations of the blood and portions of organs removed for biopsy showed that in 523 cases out of 623 bodies, death was caused by carbon monoxide poisoning.” As established by the investigation similar “gas lorries,” which were nicknamed “murder vans,” were used by the Germans for murdering peaceful Soviet citizens not only in Krasnodar but also in Kharkov. These vans, as testified by the German defendants in the present case and also by witnesses who witnessed the crimes committed by the Germans, are large closed trucks of dark grey colour, driven by Diesel engines. The vans are lined inside with galvanized iron and have air-tight folding doors at the back. The floor is equipped with a wooden grating under which passes a pipe with apertures. This pipe is connected to the exhaust pipe of the engine. The exhaust gases of the Diesel engine, containing highly concentrated carbon monoxide, enter the body of the van, causing rapid poisoning and asphyxiation of the people locked up in the van.

The Soviets even got the appearance of the victims right--"pale pink or bright cherry color"--which is far more than can be said for any of the self-described "eyewitnesses" from any of the AR camps.

So, Hans, why should any sane person reject the Soviet claims from 1943 and choose contrary claims instead made after the war and far, far away under dubious circumstances? Why should any sane person believe any of this CRAP--even for Hadamar? Were there any autopsies, credible ones, conducted anywhere or observed by credible witnesses to support any of these claims? Of course, not!

By contrast, the Germans had conducted autopsies with many foreign observers, including Polish clergy, at Katyn just months earlier of the thousands of Polish officers murdered there by the Soviets. Here is a link showing something about the Katyn Massacre investigation conducted by the Germans:
https://www.archives.gov/research/forei ... n-massacre

It is quite different from what the Soviets conducted later. The Germans at Katyn showed the world just how a mass murder investigtion should be conducted. The Soviets pretended to do something comprable regardiung "gas vans" just a few months later--but it was a farce instead.


The possible dangers of explosion with producer gas are minimal compared to what Hans alleges--and that is why the Germans actually used and seemed to even prefer producer gas vehicles to transport ammunition and even flammable liquids and fuels. It is all rigorously spelled out in typical German fashion with "Safety Guidelines for Producer Gas Vehicles" as follows: http://www.nazigassings.com/SafetyGuidelines.htm

E) Bei der Beförderung von explosiblen und leicht brennbaren Stoffen

1. Bei beladenem Fahrzeug ist die Gasprobe durch Anzünden verboten.

2. Beim Entaschen des Gaserzeugers ist die Asche vorsichtig in einem Blechkasten zu entleeren. Funkenflug vermeiden! Glühende Asche ist entweder zu löschen oder so zu beseitigen, daß sie von etwa nachkommenden Fahrzeugen nicht aufgewirbelt oder vom Wind auf diese zugetrieben wird.

Außerdem :

I. Bei Beförderung von Munition und Sprengstoffen

1. Wird bei Märschen ein Halten der beladenen Fahrzeuge notwendig, so müssen die einzelnen Fahrzeuge einen Abstand von mindestens 50 m voneinander einhalten.

2. Jeder Führer eines Gaserzeuger-Kraftfahrzeugs hat sich bei der Einfahrt in Heeresmunitionsniederlagen und Munitionslagern beim Sicherheitsoffizier zu melden und den ihm gegebenen Anweisungen Folge zu leisten. Es dürfen nur die vom Sicherheitsoffizier benannten Wege befahren werden.

3. Vor Einfahrt in die Heeresmunitionsanstalten usw, ist der Gaserzeuger zu entaschen und festzustellen, ob er noch mit genügend Brennstoff beschickt ist, so daß das Fahrzeug unter allen Umständen ohne Nachfüllen wieder herausfahren kann.

Innerhalb von Heeresemunitionsanstalten usw. darf kein Kraftstoff in den Gaserzeuger nachgefüllt und der Gaserzeuger nicht entascht werden, auch das Öffnen des Aschekastens, der Einfüllöffnung und sonstiger Verschlüsse des Gaserzeugers ist verboten.

Ist ein längerer Stillstand des Fahrzeugs innerhalb der Heeresmunitionsanstalten usw, und damit das Einschalten des Anfachgebläses unvermeidlich, so darf auf keinen Fall die Gasprobe am Gebläsestutzen durch Anzünden vorgenommen werden, der Motor ist erst dann anzulassen, wenn erfahrungsgemäß mit brennbarem Gas gerechnet werden kann.


II. Bei Beförderung von brennbaren Flüssigkeiten und brennbaren Gasen

1. Es muß vermieden werden, daß in den Behältern flüssige Kraftstoffe und für brennbare Gase auf dem Fahrzeug gefährliche Temperatur - und damit Drucksteigerungen auftreten können. Wenn eine wärmeisolierende Trennwand (Abstand vom Gaserzeuger mindestens 15 m) nicht vorhanden ist, muß das Ladegut mindestens 50 cm vom Gaserzeuger entfernt gelagert und so festgelegt werden, daß es sich nicht zum Gaserzeuger hin verschieben kann.

2. Das Öffnen von Behältern für flüssige Kraftstoffe und brennbare Gase auf dem Gaserzeuger-Kraftfahrzeug ist verboten. Das Abfüllen aus den Behältern darf nur in einer Entfernung von mindestens 10 m vom Gaserzeuger, und zwar auf der dem Wind abgekehrten Seite, vorgenommen werden.

3. Beladene Gaserzeuger-Kraftfahrzeuge dürfen nicht in geschlossene Räume eingestellt werden.

Eventually, I will provide an English translation of the relevant "Safety Guidelines." For now, however, Hans and others should try to make it through the German text for themselves.

The dangers from exploding producer gas vehicles is not that great to begin with since the amount of explosive gas in an open area (away from a garage and outside of any enclosed space) consists of merely the gas in the few feet of hose or piping from the gas generator tank to the engine. In other words, the possibly explosive gas consists of no more than a few gallons of gas--at most. By contrast, the dangers of exploding gasoline or liquid diesel fuel powered trucks is far greater since the fuel tanks could alone contain many tens of gallons of highly flammable and explosive liquid fuel. Enemy air attacks or artillery could easily unleash a holocaust if the liquid fuel tanks were ruptured--but ONLY a small fire, at least generally depending on the cargo, if a producer gas vehicle were hit.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at: http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
There were NO “limited gassings!” There were NO homicidal Nazi Gassings at all!
http://www.nazigassings.com/Railroad.html
The REAL Mass Murderers were the Anglo-Americans and the Jews themselves!
FPBerg
It is amazing how this has now morphed into benzene and Zb once the diesel myth was exposed. Seems the same topic just appeared elsewhere from the somewhat defunct poster of recent.

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Re: Flawed Revisionist technical arguments

Post by Huntinger » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:58 am

With due respect the drunken behaviour of the poster Blake and his attempts to speak of flawed arguments is now at an end.
This is the end of the road. I doubt if this poster has anymore useful contributions to this forum. Done and dusted.
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