Extermination Camps.

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Nessie
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Re: Extermination Camps.

Post by Nessie » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:22 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:55 pm
Nessie wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:33 pm
That the death camps were in Poland makes sense considering where the majority of Jews were. That the Soviets liberated Poland rather than the Allies also makes sense. There is nothing suspect that the death camps were liberated (in as much as you can liberate a camp that has been razed to the ground and is totally unoccupied) by the Soviets.
The point is, that if the Soviets had not gone so far West, then some of the so called death camps
would most probably be reclassified like the others as mere labour camps. If the Soviets had gone further then the number of death camps would most likely have increased. This is mere Soviet Arbitrary Classification due to the purposes of propaganda. The semantics have nothing to do with reality.
No, it is to do with the Polish reports during the war that certain camps were being used to kill large numbers of Jews were then backed up by Polish judicial investigations which find large areas of cremated remains and that the Nazis had tried to cover up what had happened by destroying as much as possible of the gas chambers. That has been further backed up later investigations involving archaeologists from numerous countries checking the camps again after the Iron Curtain came down.

It has also been backed up by Allied and later German questioning of the Nazi suspects and their subsequent trials, where the suspects claimed that they were acting under orders, not that it had not happened.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Extermination Camps.

Post by Huntinger » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:26 pm

Nessie wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:22 pm
Huntinger wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:55 pm
Nessie wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:33 pm
That the death camps were in Poland makes sense considering where the majority of Jews were. That the Soviets liberated Poland rather than the Allies also makes sense. There is nothing suspect that the death camps were liberated (in as much as you can liberate a camp that has been razed to the ground and is totally unoccupied) by the Soviets.
The point is, that if the Soviets had not gone so far West, then some of the so called death camps
would most probably be reclassified like the others as mere labour camps. If the Soviets had gone further then the number of death camps would most likely have increased. This is mere Soviet Arbitrary Classification due to the purposes of propaganda. The semantics have nothing to do with reality.
No, it is to do with the Polish reports during the war that certain camps were being used to kill large numbers of Jews were then backed up by Polish judicial investigations which find large areas of cremated remains and that the Nazis had tried to cover up what had happened by destroying as much as possible of the gas chambers. That has been further backed up later investigations involving archaeologists from numerous countries checking the camps again after the Iron Curtain came down.

It has also been backed up by Allied and later German questioning of the Nazi suspects and their subsequent trials, where the suspects claimed that they were acting under orders, not that it had not happened.
You are veering off topic. The Polish reports are propaganda only as mentioned due to the Polish Government in Exile and the agent being a spy for this Government. Wartime propaganda only. This is how the Auschwitz myth started and grown out of all proportion. No forensics have been done from independent investigators so please do not suggest otherwise. If so give links to their University publications and quote the abstracts.
From the map alone any fool can see it is a hoax made in the CCCP.
𝕸𝖆𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊 𝕾𝖈𝖍𝖆̈𝖙𝖟𝖊 𝖐𝖆𝖓𝖓 𝖒𝖆𝖓 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖐𝖆𝖚𝖋𝖊𝖓.
𝕸𝖊𝖎𝖉𝖊 𝖉𝖊𝖓 𝕵𝖚𝖉𝖊𝖓

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Nessie
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Re: Extermination Camps.

Post by Nessie » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:32 pm

It is not going off topic to point out that it was the Polish, not under any Soviet influence, who reported on the death camps. Their reports of gassing and cremations have been backed up by witnesses and examinations of the camp site remains.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Extermination Camps.

Post by Huntinger » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:41 pm

Nessie wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:32 pm
It is not going off topic to point out that it was the Polish, not under any Soviet influence, who reported on the death camps. Their reports of gassing and cremations have been backed up by witnesses and examinations of the camp site remains.
This is not an iRC chat channel. Please give a considered post before you re post the same crap about witnesses. The Polish Government were in exile in a War so it was in there interests to give anything that would help win the war. Discrediting the Germans and turning them into monsters is just one method. This was continued by the Soviets at the end of the war. The spy was shot and could not be a witness.
𝕸𝖆𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊 𝕾𝖈𝖍𝖆̈𝖙𝖟𝖊 𝖐𝖆𝖓𝖓 𝖒𝖆𝖓 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖐𝖆𝖚𝖋𝖊𝖓.
𝕸𝖊𝖎𝖉𝖊 𝖉𝖊𝖓 𝕵𝖚𝖉𝖊𝖓

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Re: Extermination Camps.

Post by Nessie » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:11 am

The only reason why you are against witness evidence is because all the witnesses who saw what was happening at the extermination camps and at specific key buildings say people were being murdered by gassing. No witness speaks to any alternative.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Extermination Camps.

Post by Trolljegeren » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:10 am

Nessie wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:11 am
The only reason why you are against witness evidence is because all the witnesses who saw what was happening at the extermination camps and at specific key buildings say people were being murdered by gassing. No witness speaks to any alternative.
Nessies attempt to derail cannot work due to the specific thread intentions. In this case they are:
Thread Intentions
Who decided which camp was a "Death Camp" and why?
Why were all of the alleged Death Camps once behind the Iron Curtain?

How does anything Nessie wrote in the quote above speak of either of those intentions? It does not and so therefore is an attempt to derail most likely. Nessie should talk about only those two questions and not his pet theory on witnesses and gassing. The only witness of concern I can see was the Polish Spy to be honest. Brave interesting man, but he did lie it seems for his Government in exile as mentioned. There are many reasons to suggest his government is being somewhat frugal with the truth for the expediency of war. This in intelligence circles is called disinformation aka lying.

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Nessie
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Re: Extermination Camps.

Post by Nessie » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:59 am

The "Polish Spy" was one of a number of witnesses who provided information as to what was happening in certain camps. The "Polish Spy" did not witness gassings. Others did and they also provided reports, such as Abraham Krzepicki. He escaped from TII in September 1942 and reported gassings to the Polish underground in Warsaw.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Extermination Camps.

Post by Trolljegeren » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:06 am

Nessie wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:59 am
The "Polish Spy" was one of a number of witnesses who provided information as to what was happening in certain camps. The "Polish Spy" did not witness gassings. Others did and they also provided reports, such as Abraham Krzepicki. He escaped from TII in September 1942 and reported gassings to the Polish underground in Warsaw.
How would you ex policeman distinguish this from disinformation? This is where the start of the death camp story started and then spread to every other concentration camp due to the disinformation promulgated. It is just an sheer accident that the death camps are just behind the Iron Curtain: more than a coincidence. Surely no one is not that dim to realize the political expediency going on here. Oh OK.... :roll: :roll:

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Re: Extermination Camps.

Post by Nessie » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:13 am

Trolljegeren wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:06 am
Nessie wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:59 am
The "Polish Spy" was one of a number of witnesses who provided information as to what was happening in certain camps. The "Polish Spy" did not witness gassings. Others did and they also provided reports, such as Abraham Krzepicki. He escaped from TII in September 1942 and reported gassings to the Polish underground in Warsaw.
How would you ex policeman distinguish this from disinformation?
I would look for documentary, physical and other supporting evidence and if any of the suspects admit to the crime.
This is where the start of the death camp story started and then spread to every other concentration camp due to the disinformation promulgated. It is just an sheer accident that the death camps are just behind the Iron Curtain: more than a coincidence. Surely no one is not that dim to realize the political expediency going on here. Oh OK.... :roll: :roll:
The issue is that it was not the Jews or the Soviets who started the claims, it was the Polish.

It is not surprising that the main camps were in Poland, since it had the largest Jewish population and it was under total control by the Nazis. There was not even a puppet Polish government. There are clear logistical and political reasons to have located the death camps in Poland.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Extermination Camps.

Post by Trolljegeren » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:32 am

Please read the Posts how the Polish Government in exile controlled the resistance and intelligence units.

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