Birkenau queues

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blake121666
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Re: Birkenau queues

Post by blake121666 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:16 pm

Nessie wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:08 am
Trolljegeren wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:00 am
The British dominated airspace after the Battle of Britain July 1940 to June 1941. On 4 April 1944, a Mosquito plane from 60 Photo Recon Squadron of the South African Air Force flew out of Foggia base in Southern Italy to photograph the factory. It was the IG Farben factory at Monowitz, only 4km from Birkenau. In order to ensure complete coverage of the target, it was common practice to start the camera rolling ahead of time, and stop it slightly over time. As a result, the Auschwitz camp was photographed for the first time. During that same period, the Allies had commenced planning a comprehensive attack on the German fuel industry, and the Monowitz factory was high up on the list of targets. On 31 May, a second plane from 60 Squadron was sent to the area. This time, it also took three photographs of Birkenau from an altitude of 26,000ft, although the photo-analysts did not identify the camp. The photographs from this sortie show us the camp as it looked 3 days after the arrival of the deportation documented in the Auschwitz Album. The bombing of the Monowitz factory was delayed but the Allied air forces continued to gather intelligence information about this factory and other installations in the area. The South African Mosquito planes photographed the factory and parts of the camp complex on 26 June, 25 August and 8 September.
Meanwhile, the US Army Air force also started carrying out sorties in the area. The first American sortie to the Auschwitz area was carried out on 8 July by an F-5 Lightning plane from the 5th Photographic Reconnaissance Group of the 15th US Air force, operating from Bari. The information gathered in this sortie and in the British sorties, was used to plan the first bombing mission of the Monowitz factory on 20 August, in which the factory was damaged, but was not destroyed. The second bombing mission was carried out on 13 September, and the photographs taken during the bombing by B-24 bombers of the 464th Bombardment Group include a photograph showing bombs being dropped over Birkenau. Afterwards, further sorties were carried out to estimate the damage, and the Germans’ progress with its repair. The 5th Photographic Reconnaissance Group’s Lightning planes also flew over the Auschwitz area on 29 November, 21 December, and finally on 14 January 1945 – only two weeks before the liberation of the camp by the Soviet Army. source
Image
Photo of Krema, captions by Yadvashem propaganda
Michael Birnbaum wrote:

Between May 14 and July 8, 1944, 437,402 Jews from fifty-five Hungarian localities were deported to Auschwitz in 147 trains. Most were gassed at Birkenau soon after they arrived. The railroad system was stretched to its limits to keep up with the demand of the camp, where as many as 12,000 people a day were being gassed.

Note planes were constantly over this camp, not just a few flights and if 12 000 a day were being gassed then there would be more evidence than shown in any photo. The fact that the allies were unaware of the alleged atrocity is because there was none.
Your post contradicts your conclusion. You note flights on April 4th, May 31st, June 26th, July 8th, August 20th and 25th, September 8th and another three times after that.

The Hungarian arrivals were May 14th to July 8th. So that is three photos. However, the Hungarian transports stopped for 2 weeks in June and there were no arrivals on the 26th. That means only TWO photos cover the largest of the arrivals. In August there were smaller scale arrivals from the Lodz ghetto. On the September 8th there was an arrival of Jews from Berlin. Details here;

http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm

So, the planes were not constantly over the camp when large numbers were arriving there.
Based on Honey's estimates used by the HC crew:
Based on Honey's estimates:
16th May 6369 5542 87,0%
17th May 3055 2536 83,0%
18th May 14083 11427 81,1%
19th May 9859 6591 66,9%
20th May 10123 5835 57,6%
21st May 15795 11905 75,4%
22nd May 12812 8819 68,8%
23rd May 12438 9662 77,7%
24th May 13112 8707 66,4%
25th May 15588 10745 68,9%
26th May 16074 10264 63,9%
27th May 15850 10116 63,8%
28th May 30633 22546 73,6%
30th May 7247 4767 65,8%
31st May 10022 6668 66,5%
1st June 16332 11627 71,2%
2nd June 12505 8649 69,2%
3rd June 12394 8399 67,8%
4th June 11539 7953 68,9%
5th June 8632 5984 69,3%
6th June 11343 7641 67,4%
7th June 10109 7133 70,6%
8th June 4459 3318 74,4%
9th June 3148 1974 62,7%
10th June 1163 814 70,0%
11th June 1447 756 52,2%
12th June 9114 8921 97,9%
13th June 8426 7729 91,7%
14th June 8911 7518 84,4%
15th June 10932 8601 78,7%
16th June 5507 4650 84,4%
17th June 10607 8622 81,3%
18th June 3160 2309 73,1%
26th June 3006 2470 82,2%
27th June 3199 2747 85,9%
28th June 3842 3838 99,9%
29th June 12316 10495 85,2%
1st July 7854 6655 84,7%
7th July 9258 7481 80,8%
8th July 12108 8797 72,7%
9th July 11427 9837 86,1%
10th July 12206 9878 80,9%
11th July 5003 3249 64,9%
22nd July 4390 3588 81,7%
25th July 3160 3156 99,9%
So 10,022 on May 31 and 12,108 on July 8 - but only 3006 on June 26.

This list adds up to "45 days 430,557 320,919 74.5%"

These are the numbers that have been claimed for a long while now - about 75% not 90% gassed.

Using the "Michael Birnbaum" [sic] quote above: 437,402 Jews / 147 trains = 2976 Jews per train on average.

430,557 Jews / 45 days = 9568 Jews per day on average. So there were about 3-4 trains of Jews per day on average.

The insult-flinging AirfixGeneral should get a clue before flinging his insults.

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Nessie
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Re: Birkenau queues

Post by Nessie » Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:42 am

Henry wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:05 pm
AirfixGeneral wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:52 am
Trolljegeren wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:00 am

Between May 14 and July 8, 1944, 437,402 Jews from fifty-five Hungarian localities were deported to Auschwitz in 147 trains. Most were gassed at Birkenau soon after they arrived. The railroad system was stretched to its limits to keep up with the demand of the camp, where as many as 12,000 people a day were being gassed.

Note planes were constantly over this camp, not just a few flights and if 12 000 a day were being gassed then there would be more evidence than shown in any photo. The fact that the allies were unaware of the alleged atrocity is because there was none.

Just as i thoughts. trolljegerens and henrys and huntingers uses an average maths figure which anybodys with half brain cells would realises is a deceptives and crafties ways of makings their false claims. this proves how dishonest fib merchants they ares.
Nessie and his new pal have already been provided with sources one of which is The Los Angeles Museum of The Holocaust http://www.lamoth.org/visitor-informati ... f-hungary/

So these two time wasters are clearly trolling this forum and misleading viewers with their lies. Could Admin please address this issue....
Blake has just posted figures for daily arrivals which contradict that sources claim of "On a typical day during this period, 12,000 Hungarian Jews would arrive at Auschwitz. Ninety percent were murdered upon arrival in the gas chambers". The figures used by Blake are lower for arrivals and how many were selected to work. The figure left for gassing is much lower per day than the 12,000 Trolljegeren claims.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Birkenau queues

Post by Trolljegeren » Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:50 am

Nessie wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:42 am

Blake has just posted figures for daily arrivals which contradict that sources claim of "On a typical day during this period, 12,000 Hungarian Jews would arrive at Auschwitz. Ninety percent were murdered upon arrival in the gas chambers". The figures used by Blake are lower for arrivals and how many were selected to work. The figure left for gassing is much lower per day than the 12,000 Trolljegeren claims.
We are claiming nothing, just quoting evidence given by others. You do appreciate evidence do you not Nessie? It gets worse :)
Weizmann reported that 60,000 Jews were being gassed and burned to death each day at Birkenau (the death camp at Auschwitz II). Eden told Churchill that this figure might well be an exaggeration. But on the next day, Eden forwarded an additional report to Churchill, describing the four crematoria at the camp, with a gassing and burning capacity of 60,000 each day. https://www.jstor.org/stable/1396502

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Henry
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Re: Birkenau queues

Post by Henry » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:02 am

Nessie wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:42 am
Blake has just posted figures for daily arrivals which contradict that sources claim of "On a typical day during this period, 12,000 Hungarian Jews would arrive at Auschwitz. Ninety percent were murdered upon arrival in the gas chambers". The figures used by Blake are lower for arrivals and how many were selected to work. The figure left for gassing is much lower per day than the 12,000 Trolljegeren claims.
So you're saying another Tax-payer funded Holocaust museum is again lying to the public when it states that 12,000 Jews per day were offloaded with 90% sent immediately to the gas chambers. Lying....Yes or No?
Within four months, 437,000 Jews had been deported in 145 trains, most of them to the extermination camp in Auschwitz. On a typical day during this period, 12,000 Hungarian Jews would arrive at Auschwitz. Ninety percent were murdered upon arrival in the gas chambers. Because the crematoria could not cope with the number of corpses, special pits were dug near them, where bodies were burned in the open air.

Source: http://www.lamoth.org/visitor-informati ... f-hungary/
That's 12,000 Jews per day offloaded with 90% gassed according to official Holocaust sources.

I'll post the detail on the Weizmann/Eden/Churchill thing later, once I've accessed Weizmann's letters and papers at my other house.

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Re: Birkenau queues

Post by Depth Check » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:51 pm

AirfixGeneral will be spending the next 6hrs on the sideline for posting spam and concentrating on the character of his opponents.

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Nessie
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Re: Birkenau queues

Post by Nessie » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:32 am

Trolljegeren wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:50 am
Nessie wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:42 am

Blake has just posted figures for daily arrivals which contradict that sources claim of "On a typical day during this period, 12,000 Hungarian Jews would arrive at Auschwitz. Ninety percent were murdered upon arrival in the gas chambers". The figures used by Blake are lower for arrivals and how many were selected to work. The figure left for gassing is much lower per day than the 12,000 Trolljegeren claims.
We are claiming nothing, just quoting evidence given by others. You do appreciate evidence do you not Nessie? It gets worse :)
Weizmann reported that 60,000 Jews were being gassed and burned to death each day at Birkenau (the death camp at Auschwitz II). Eden told Churchill that this figure might well be an exaggeration. But on the next day, Eden forwarded an additional report to Churchill, describing the four crematoria at the camp, with a gassing and burning capacity of 60,000 each day. https://www.jstor.org/stable/1396502
Both of the 12,000 and 60,000 were gassed each day are wrong.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Birkenau queues

Post by Nessie » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:35 am

Henry wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:02 am
Nessie wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:42 am
Blake has just posted figures for daily arrivals which contradict that sources claim of "On a typical day during this period, 12,000 Hungarian Jews would arrive at Auschwitz. Ninety percent were murdered upon arrival in the gas chambers". The figures used by Blake are lower for arrivals and how many were selected to work. The figure left for gassing is much lower per day than the 12,000 Trolljegeren claims.
So you're saying another Tax-payer funded Holocaust museum is again lying to the public when it states that 12,000 Jews per day were offloaded with 90% sent immediately to the gas chambers. Lying....Yes or No?
Within four months, 437,000 Jews had been deported in 145 trains, most of them to the extermination camp in Auschwitz. On a typical day during this period, 12,000 Hungarian Jews would arrive at Auschwitz. Ninety percent were murdered upon arrival in the gas chambers. Because the crematoria could not cope with the number of corpses, special pits were dug near them, where bodies were burned in the open air.

Source: http://www.lamoth.org/visitor-informati ... f-hungary/
That's 12,000 Jews per day offloaded with 90% gassed according to official Holocaust sources.

I'll post the detail on the Weizmann/Eden/Churchill thing later, once I've accessed Weizmann's letters and papers at my other house.
I am saying the site is wrong. There was an occasional day that 12,000 would arrive and up to 90% gassed, but it was not a "typical day". I doubt the source is lying, that cannot be evidenced.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Birkenau queues

Post by Trolljegeren » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:55 pm

It would seem that the lack of hard evidence or any at all apart from propaganda has led people to either reach a wrong conclusion or down right lie. Thank you for letting us know that the Holocaust Museums are wrong Nessie. It is interesting how you are altering the "official narrative" in an attempt to make your somewhat limited views more acceptable. However, you are now working on the side of the "deniers".

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Nessie
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Re: Birkenau queues

Post by Nessie » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:09 am

Trolljegeren wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:55 pm
It would seem that the lack of hard evidence or any at all apart from propaganda has led people to either reach a wrong conclusion or down right lie. Thank you for letting us know that the Holocaust Museums are wrong Nessie. It is interesting how you are altering the "official narrative" in an attempt to make your somewhat limited views more acceptable. However, you are now working on the side of the "deniers".
There is no official narrative. The numerous historians who have studied the Holocaust disagree on many details and mistakes are made.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Birkenau queues

Post by Huntinger » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:19 am

Nessie wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:09 am

There is no official narrative. The numerous historians who have studied the Holocaust disagree on many details and mistakes are made.
OK we have noticed how this narrative changes frequently with time. What is the old adage about building a house on sand instead of a house on rock. I see an increase of golden sands on the shores of humanity.
𝕰𝖎𝖓 𝖁𝖔𝖑𝖐, 𝖊𝖎𝖓 𝕽𝖊𝖎𝖈𝖍, 𝖊𝖎𝖓 𝕱𝖚̈𝖍𝖗𝖊𝖗

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