The Great and Truthful "Elie Wiesel" and his claims

Discuss the alleged Nazi genocide or other wartime atrocities without fear of censorship. No bullying of fellow posters is allowed at RODOH. If you can't be civil, please address the argument and not the participants. Do not use disparaging alterations of the user-names of other RODOH posters or their family members. Failure to heed warnings from Moderators will result in a 24 hour ban (or longer if necessary).
User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 9237
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: The Great and Truthful "Elie Wiesel" and his claims

Post by been-there »

The weight of evidence for anyone able to view it rationally and unemotionally confirms that yes, Mr. Wiesel was a plagiarist, fraud and impostor.

Noam Chomsky referred to him as a 'terrible fraud'.

Prof. Norman Finkelstein, whose parents were in Auschwitz and Majdanek concentration camps called him a 'clown'

To Christopher Hitchens he was a 'windbag' and 'poseur'.

And to Israel Shamir he's the (my favourite) "cry-as-you-pay Holocaust weepie".

So many people with so many bad things to say about Elie Wiesel.
"Elie Wiesel's memoir is written by a man whose inner postures have gone so long unreviewed he cannot persuade us he is on a voyage of self-discovery, the first requirement of a testament. His book, I am sorry to say, gives being witness a bad name."
-- Vivian Gornick (Jewish writer), "The Rhetoric of Witness" The Nation, December 25, 1995
"... a man like Elie Wiesel, who says anything that comes to mind. . . You just have to read parts of 'Night' to know that certain of his descriptions are not exact and that he is essentially a Shoah merchant. . . who has done harm, enormous harm, to historical truth."
-- Pierre Vidal Naquet, (whose father died at Auschwitz)
Wiesel himself tells a story about a visit to a Hasidic rabbi, he hadn't seen for 20 years.
The Rebbe is upset to learn that Wiesel has become a writer, and wants to know what he writes.
"Stories," Wiesel tells him, "... true stories".

About people you knew?

"Yes, about people I might have known."

About things that happened?

"Yes, about things that happened or could have happened."

But they did not?

"No, not all of them did. In fact, some were invented from almost the beginning to almost the end."

The Rebbe leaned forward as if to measure me up and said with more sorrow than anger: That means you are writing lies!

I did not answer immediately. The scolded child within me had nothing to say in his defence. Yet, I had to justify myself: "Things are not that simple, Rebbe. Some events do take place but are not true; others are — although they never occurred."

Fantasies of Witnessing: Postwar Efforts to Experience the Holocaust by Gary Weissman
. . . . .

ImageImage

Miklos Grüner says Wiesel stole the identity of his friend and fellow concentration camp inmate Lázár Wiesel. The first names “Elie” and “Lázár” are similar to the Hebrew name, Eleazar.

Grüner believes that Wiesel has committed deception by pretending to be his friend and former fellow prisoner.
“Lázár helped me survive. Later, Elie Wiesel published Lázár's book under his own name. That was 'Night' for which Elie Wiesel -- or whatever his real name is -- received the Nobel Prize."
Image
Grüner says the number Lázár was tattooed with was A-7713. “...that's part of the title of my book I hope to publish about the Wiesel scam: 'Stolen Identity, A-7713'.”

Photo's and film footage have emerged on the Internet showing Wiesel in short sleeves without a visible tattoo. But Wiesel claims he still carries the number on his arm.

“I don’t need that to remember, I think about my past every day. I still have it on my arm – A-7713. At that time, we were numbers. No names, no identity,” he told American students when asked about the tattoo.

Grüner wanted to sue Wiesel directly, but claimed that was made not possible.
“Elie Wiesel, who lives in the United States, is a very hard man to get. The whole world is protecting him, from U.S. President Barack Obama to German Chancellor Angela Merkel. They are all scared the truth will come out, because of prestige and money. I am also pressuring the German Bundestag to show me archives about Wiesel's past.”
. . . . . . . . . . .

Image

Above is the signature of Lázár Wiesel (A-7713, transported from Hungary 16 April 1944. The friend of Miklos Grüner and inmate of Buchenwald), the man whose identity Elie has claimed is his.

Image
Above is the signature of Elie Wiesel (transported from Hungary May 17, 1944). The Elie Wiesel who is accused of fraud and identity-theft by Buchenwald inmate Miklos Grüner.

In 2006 Grüner wrote: "If Elie Wiesel is Lazar, who he claims to be, he would be 92 years old, and not 77..."

. . . .

Image

This picture alone — showing Mr. Wiesel in front of the photo he claims was him as a 16 yr old in Buchenwald — is proof that he has been lying or is suffering from a huge self-delusion.

It shows him in Dec 18th, 1986 at the “Yad Vashem” Memorial Centre in Jerusalem posing in front of a group photo taken at Buchenwald in 1945, including a man whom Elie Wiesel claimed in 1983 is himself.

Image

Wiesel has spent almost his entire adult life earning money as what has become known as a ‘holocaust survivor’ and he has become the spokesman for all continental European Jews who survived WW2. I predict that he will become a symbol of all that is false and manipulative concerning this tragic episode in our recent history, which has beome the taboo subject of our times.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous


Would you like to financially contribute to the upkeep of RODOH, kindly contact Scott Smith. All contributions are welcome!


onetruth
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:57 pm
Contact:

Re: The Great and Truthful "Elie Wiesel" and his claims

Post by onetruth »

been-there wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:16 pm
The weight of evidence for anyone able to view it rationally and unemotionally confirms that yes, Mr. Wiesel was a plagiarist, fraud and impostor.
Been there brings us the same stuff that has been debunked 100 times already like , the Grüner story , the tattoo , the signature .

It has all been debunked here under the Article :


Lying about Elie Wiesel :

see here :http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... iesel.html

~

onetruth
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:57 pm
Contact:

Re: The Great and Truthful "Elie Wiesel" and his claims

Post by onetruth »

Werd wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:27 pm
Take the plunge.
viewtopic.php?p=95057#p95057

Traffic jam.
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=70842#p70842

Nothing in your links explains : why the Germans needed open pits cremation to begin with ? taking into account the number of crematoriums at their disposal ?

This would turn a red light in the mind of any honest human being and cause him to wonder what the hell was going on there that they needed to burn so many bodies a day .

How fortunate for deniers , they are spared from having such doubts . . .


~
Last edited by onetruth on Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 9237
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: The Great and Truthful "Elie Wiesel" and his claims

Post by been-there »

onetruth wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:04 am
been-there wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:16 pm
The weight of evidence for anyone able to view it rationally and unemotionally confirms that yes, Mr. Wiesel was a plagiarist, fraud and impostor.
Been there brings us the same stuff that has been debunked 100 times already like , the Grüner story , the tattoo , the signature .

It has all been debunked here under the Article :
Lying about Elie Wiesel :

see here :http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... iesel.html
He admitted he invented stories to his Rabbi. You have ignored that.
There is nothing in that link that I could see which explained why his signature is so different.
There was nothing in that link which explained why he wouldn't allow his 'tatoo' to be seen and properly analysed.
There was NOTHING in that link which explained why the person in the Buchenwald camp liberation photo is clearly not a 16yr old Elie Wiesel as he delusionally and falsely claimed, but is OBVIOUSLY — to any sane, honest and reasonable person — a man in his late twenties to early thirties.
Etc., etc.

You are merely demonstrating that you are unable to approach this pseudo-historical narrative with any degree of impartiality or honesty. You need cult-counselling. Seek help.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 28894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: The Great and Truthful "Elie Wiesel" and his claims

Post by Nessie »

This is an issue where I think on the balance of probabilities, the denialists are correct to have suspicions, and it would be sensible to discount Wiesel's evidence.

The problem then is that because Wiesel is suspect, denialists will concentrate on his evidence and look at it in detail. If they were genuine about enquiry into the Holocaust, they would not bother with him and instead they would study other witnesses. The reason why they do not do that is because they use Wiesel as a tactic, dispute him and they think that all witnesses can be dismissed.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

onetruth
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:57 pm
Contact:

Re: The Great and Truthful "Elie Wiesel" and his claims

Post by onetruth »

been-there wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:19 am
He admitted he invented stories to his Rabbi. You have ignored that.
i did not think this invented Bs is worth a reply , Elie Wiesel wrote 57 books and any reasonable man would understand he was referring to them and NOT to the one biographical book that he wrote. Someone he is not biased and twisted.

been-there wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:19 am
is nothing in that link that I could see which explained why his signature is so different.
Yes there is you just did not bother to read , do give it a try :

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... iesel.html
been-there wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:19 am
There was nothing in that link which explained why he wouldn't allow his 'tatoo' to be seen and properly analysed.
Show you his tattoo , anything else ? maybe you want him to show you his ass aswell , that might be more becoming considering what you are about.

Your tattoo nonsense is debunked here - i am NOT going to copy and paste it for you :

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... iesel.html


been-there wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:19 am
There was NOTHING in that link which explained why the person in the Buchenwald camp liberation photo is clearly not a 16yr old Elie Wiesel


clearly that is your opinion .
been-there wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:19 am
You are merely demonstrating that you are unable to approach this pseudo-historical narrative with any degree of impartiality or honesty. You need cult-counselling. Seek help.
The usual self projecting boring sermon from being there.

And like all the dishonest denialists he also ignored the most important question regarding this subject which is :


Why the Germans needed open pits cremation to begin with ? taking into account the number of crematoriums at their disposal ?

This would turn a red light in the mind of any honest human being and cause him to wonder what the hell was going on there that they needed to burn so many bodies a day .

How fortunate for deniers , they are spared from having such doubts . .
.



~

Werd
Posts: 10038
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:38 am
Contact:

Re: The Great and Truthful "Elie Wiesel" and his claims

Post by Werd »

onetruth wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:08 am
Werd wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:27 pm
Take the plunge.
viewtopic.php?p=95057#p95057

Traffic jam.
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=70842#p70842
Nothing in your links explains : why the Germans needed open pits cremation to begin with ?
Yes it does. Stop lying. You just didn't read my posts.
taking into account the number of crematoriums at their disposal
See? Your guessing proves you didn't read shit. As the links explain, given the high number of Hungarian Jews allegedly in Auschwitz, and the fact that many crematoria were unavailable due to repairs, breakdowns, etc, we should have seen MORE corpses outside at the time many of those aerial photos were taken in summer 1944. We don't. We certainly don't see the numbers and sizes of pits claimed by so called witnesses.

Werd
Posts: 10038
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:38 am
Contact:

Re: The Great and Truthful "Elie Wiesel" and his claims

Post by Werd »

onetruth wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:20 am
im to show you his ass aswell , that might be more becoming considering what you are about.

Your tattoo nonsense is debunked here - i am NOT going to copy and paste it for you :

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... iesel.html
it can all be summed up as one pathetic ad hoc hypothesis:
Mattogno, Yeager and others have tied themselves into a Gordian knot inventing more and more of various separate Wiesels/Viezels/Vizels/... whereas the most parsimonious solution is so simple: Eliezer (Lazar, Elie) Wiesel is one person and the contradictory information in the documents stems from mere clerical mistakes.
:lol:
Okay. Whatever. As for the "his tattoo faded over time" argument, the photo used by Romanov is claimed to be from 1945.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vwDKDOuNx-s/ ... esel01.png
Hmmm. The tattoo faded in one year. They're comparing a tattoo one or two years later to tattoos decades later on wrinkly old, tanned skin? Try again, idiots. Wiesel could solve this problem easily. Just get on tv and show it. He has refused. Chickenshit. Liar.
If Wiesel's tattoo was faint from the start, it would have gotten even fainter with age, since tattoos fade somewhat with time. - Romanov
His tattoo was faint from the start? Wow. The ad hocs never stop flowing. How many other tattoos were faint from the start because the nazis fucked up on tattooing Jews sometimes? Why did some tattoos end up faint from the start when they were tattooed, but others remain for decades?
Image
Maybe the Jews like this one are getting tattoo work done periodically over their old tattoo to preserve what was done to them years ago. :lol:

onetruth
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:57 pm
Contact:

Re: The Great and Truthful "Elie Wiesel" and his claims

Post by onetruth »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:14 am
This is an issue where I think on the balance of probabilities, the denialists are correct to have suspicions, and it would be sensible to discount Wiesel's evidence.

The problem then is that because Wiesel is suspect, denialists will concentrate on his evidence and look at it in detail. If they were genuine about enquiry into the Holocaust, they would not bother with him and instead they would study other witnesses. The reason why they do not do that is because they use Wiesel as a tactic, dispute him and they think that all witnesses can be dismissed.
You can see an example of the denialists biased and double standards in werd reply ,
Werd wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:36 pm
Witnesses don't count. We have photographs. And they don't show what they are supposed to. Especially regarding operation burn the Hungarian corpses outside in summer 1944. :lol:
So you see Nessie , witnesses don't count , so if they do not count why does Werd bother with Elie Wiesel ? To denialist witnesses count when they want them to count and they don't when it does not suit them.

All that Elie Wiesel testified was that he saw open cremation in Auschwitz - this has already been proven by the sonderkommando photos.

~

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 28894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: The Great and Truthful "Elie Wiesel" and his claims

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:05 am
....
See? Your guessing proves you didn't read shit. As the links explain, given the high number of Hungarian Jews allegedly in Auschwitz, and the fact that many crematoria were unavailable due to repairs, breakdowns, etc, we should have seen MORE corpses outside at the time many of those aerial photos were taken in summer 1944. We don't. We certainly don't see the numbers and sizes of pits claimed by so called witnesses.
The last mass deportation and use of the chambers at Birkenau was on the 9th July 1944.

Aerial photos were taken on 4th April, 31st May, 26th June by the SAAF. The USAF flew over on the 8th July. So only 4 cover the time when mass cremations open air may have been taking place.

Here is a photo from the 4th April, which shows smoke

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cate ... April_1944

Image

Here is one from the 31st May which shows smoke

http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibiti ... photos.asp

Click on the top photo to see.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 11 guests