The Communist censorship of the Jewish Holocaust theory

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DasPrussian
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Re: The Communist censorship of the Jewish Holocaust theory

Post by DasPrussian »

Henry wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 5:31 pm
DasPrussian wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 5:20 pm
Just before I retire to watch the FA cup final, would Henry like to elaborate a bit more on 'pengate' . I have come across a book written by Benjamin Ferencz and Antonio Cassese that gives details of one of the authors handing over their pen to Adenauer to sign the reparations treaty because Adenauer's pen had run out of ink. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kxz ... MQ6AEIRTAF

Am I missing something here ? As I cant help but think "yeah....and ? "
"Well...duh"
Right, so man borrows other man pen. And here's me thinking K0nsl was the resident master of all things banal and uninteresting !
All I want for Christmas is a Dukla Prague away kit

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Henry
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Re: The Communist censorship of the Jewish Holocaust theory

Post by Henry »

DasPrussian wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 6:50 pm
Henry wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 5:31 pm
DasPrussian wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 5:20 pm
Just before I retire to watch the FA cup final, would Henry like to elaborate a bit more on 'pengate' . I have come across a book written by Benjamin Ferencz and Antonio Cassese that gives details of one of the authors handing over their pen to Adenauer to sign the reparations treaty because Adenauer's pen had run out of ink. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kxz ... MQ6AEIRTAF

Am I missing something here ? As I cant help but think "yeah....and ? "
"Well...duh"
Right, so man borrows other man pen. And here's me thinking K0nsl was the resident master of all things banal and uninteresting !
What's up is the footie as shit as it usually is?

You get a mention here...
Henry wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 6:39 pm
Roberto wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 3:55 pm
Henry wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 3:34 pm
You're a real kill-joy I was due to come to Koch next. The lampshade was calf skin according to General Clay's commissioned investigation.

Btw, do you know where that lamp shade is or where the other ones are?
I have no idea. Relevance?
Well the Jew who supplied the pen for Adenauer to sign Germany into Hebrew servitude wrote to the woman who gave him the pen that he had "hundreds" of them (human skins/lampshades).

Mention that 'relevance" to Das Prussian who seems to be "missing something"

Roberto
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Re: The Communist censorship of the Jewish Holocaust theory

Post by Roberto »

Henry wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 6:06 pm
I'll deal with this wiki crap...
Roberto wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 5:33 pm
Now, how about providing that calf-skin source?
Jean Edward Smith in his biography, Lucius D. Clay, an American Life, incorrectly reported that the general maintained the leather lamp shades were really made out of goat skin. The book quotes a statement made by Gen. Clay years later:

There was absolutely no evidence in the trial transcript, other than she was a rather loathsome creature, that would support the death sentence. I suppose I received more abuse for that than for anything else I did in Germany. Some reporter had called her the "Bitch of Buchenwald", had written that she had lamp shades made of human skin in her house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilse_Koch
Jean Edward Smith in his biography, Lucius D. Clay, an American Life, reported the general maintained that the leather lamp shades were really made out of goat skin. The book quotes a statement made by General Clay years later.
https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php? ... man%20skin
Here's the page concerned.

NB: The wiki source crops the quote and deliberately misleads. And your second source also misleads as no statement years later is involved but rather Clays own words in direct interview with the biographer Jean Smith...

Image
"And that was introduced in court, where it was absolutely proven that the lampshades were made of goatskin."

Assuming that Clay was correctly quoted and that he was referring to the 1947 court whose sentence he overturned in 1948, Clay was saying that the 1947 court had not considered Koch's lampshades made of human skin a proven fact, but on the contrary established that the lampshades had been made of goatskin.
Denial of generally known historical facts should not be punishable. For those who maintain, for instance, that Germany did not take part in World War I or that Adenauer fought at Issus in 333, their own stupidity is punishment enough. The same should apply to the denial of the horrors and crimes of the recent German past.
~ A German jurist by the name of Baumann in the German juridical magazine NJW, quoted in: Bailer-Galanda/Benz/Neugebauer (ed.), Die Auschwitzleugner, Berlin 1996, page 261 (my translation).

Roberto
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Re: The Communist censorship of the Jewish Holocaust theory

Post by Roberto »

Henry wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 6:39 pm
Roberto wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 3:55 pm
Henry wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 3:34 pm
You're a real kill-joy I was due to come to Koch next. The lampshade was calf skin according to General Clay's commissioned investigation.

Btw, do you know where that lamp shade is or where the other ones are?
I have no idea. Relevance?
Well the Jew who supplied the pen for Adenauer to sign Germany into Hebrew servitude wrote to the woman who gave him the pen that he had "hundreds" of them (human skins/lampshades).
So Ferencz is supposed to have written to his wife that he had "hundreds" of human skins/lampshades in his possession. And where can I read that?
Denial of generally known historical facts should not be punishable. For those who maintain, for instance, that Germany did not take part in World War I or that Adenauer fought at Issus in 333, their own stupidity is punishment enough. The same should apply to the denial of the horrors and crimes of the recent German past.
~ A German jurist by the name of Baumann in the German juridical magazine NJW, quoted in: Bailer-Galanda/Benz/Neugebauer (ed.), Die Auschwitzleugner, Berlin 1996, page 261 (my translation).

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Henry
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Re: The Communist censorship of the Jewish Holocaust theory

Post by Henry »

Roberto wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 7:54 pm
"And that was introduced in court, where it was absolutely proven that the lampshades were made of goatskin."

Assuming that Clay was correctly quoted and that he was referring to the 1947 court whose sentence he overturned in 1948, Clay was saying that the 1947 court had not considered Koch's lampshades made of human skin a proven fact, but on the contrary established that the lampshades had been made of goatskin.
Original trial or subsequent tribunal/panel set up by Clay is not important: what is important is that fantastic false and fabricated evidence had been supplied to the World's media; the IMT tribunal and later the US Military Occupying tribunal that came from a man who walked out of Germany and the army as an NCO and returned a few months later as a US Army Colonel who 'discovered' the Einzatsgruppen evidence in the form of documents. He then proceeded to prosecute this his first ever case without calling any witnesses but relying solely on his 'discovered' documents. Knowing this no one can guarantee that those documents are any more genuine than his earlier 'discoveries' in Buchenwald.

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Henry
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Re: The Communist censorship of the Jewish Holocaust theory

Post by Henry »

Roberto wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 8:01 pm
Henry wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 6:39 pm
Roberto wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 3:55 pm
Henry wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 3:34 pm
You're a real kill-joy I was due to come to Koch next. The lampshade was calf skin according to General Clay's commissioned investigation.

Btw, do you know where that lamp shade is or where the other ones are?
I have no idea. Relevance?
Well the Jew who supplied the pen for Adenauer to sign Germany into Hebrew servitude wrote to the woman who gave him the pen that he had "hundreds" of them (human skins/lampshades).
So Ferencz is supposed to have written to his wife that he had "hundreds" of human skins/lampshades in his possession. And where can I read that?
[With my edit] Here...
Somewhere in Germany

April 20, 1945 Dearest Trudy: [...] Things around the office have really been popping lately. We have been uncovering dozens of Nazi murder camps. By the time you receive this you will probably have read all about them in the newspapers, and they may strike you as being incredible. It is really horrible, and fantastic. Millions of people starved to death, beaten, tortured, and burned. We are now working on a case,—and this is the absolute truth,—in which hundreds of men with tattooed skin were slaughtered and skinned so that the wife of the death camp could have lampshades made of the colored human tissues. A story? No. We have the proof. We have the skins, the lampshades, the dead bodies of the unfortunate victims,—and also the names of the perpetrators. We just apprehended a Dr. whose specialty was injecting typhus germs into hundreds of people (death absolutely certain) just to see the results. // Interruption. A hot case has just come in. Another “concentration camp” has been captured, just a short while ago. I have already made all arrangements to go out there in the morning.....

Hofmann, Tom. Benjamin Ferencz, Nuremberg Prosecutor and Peace Advocate (Kindle Locations 1078-1081). McFarland & Company, Inc., Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Roberto
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Re: The Communist censorship of the Jewish Holocaust theory

Post by Roberto »

Henry wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 8:19 pm
Roberto wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 7:54 pm
"And that was introduced in court, where it was absolutely proven that the lampshades were made of goatskin."

Assuming that Clay was correctly quoted and that he was referring to the 1947 court whose sentence he overturned in 1948, Clay was saying that the 1947 court had not considered Koch's lampshades made of human skin a proven fact, but on the contrary established that the lampshades had been made of goatskin.
Original trial or subsequent tribunal/panel set up by Clay is not important:
Actually it's all that matters. If I'm reading Clay correctly and he's right, Ilse Koch was not found guilty of lampshading at any of the two trials.
Henry wrote:what is important is that fantastic false and fabricated evidence had been supplied to the World's media; the IMT tribunal and later the US Military Occupying tribunal that came from a man who walked out of Germany and the army as an NCO and returned a few months later as a US Army Colonel who 'discovered' the Einzatsgruppen evidence in the form of documents.
I haven't yet seen any evidence of that. According the Clay the lampshades were the claim of "some reporter".
Henry wrote:He then proceeded to prosecute this his first ever case without calling any witnesses but relying solely on his 'discovered' documents.
There were witnesses at the Einsatzgruppen trial, including the people who had handled the Einsatzgruppen reports and confirmed their authenticity. And there were the depositions of the defendants themselves. Information in the Einsatzgruppen reports has also been checked against other evidence at subsequent trials. See these blogs:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... 11686.html

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... onism.html

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... onism.html

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... sm_19.html

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... onism.html

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... sm_23.html
Henry wrote:Knowing this no one can guarantee that those documents are any more genuine than his earlier 'discoveries' in Buchenwald.
Actually the related evidence shows that there's no reason to doubt either the authenticity or the accuracy of the Einsatzgruppen reports. And that would apply even if Ferencz had previously made dubious claims about Buchenwald. Which you still have to show he did.

[Edit: I see you posted Ferencz' letter to his wife in the meantime. It doesn't prove that Ferencz said anything about tattooed skin and lampshades to anyone but his wife, and it doesn't affect the amply confirmed authenticity and accuracy of the Einsatzgruppen reports.]
Last edited by Roberto on Sat May 27, 2017 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Denial of generally known historical facts should not be punishable. For those who maintain, for instance, that Germany did not take part in World War I or that Adenauer fought at Issus in 333, their own stupidity is punishment enough. The same should apply to the denial of the horrors and crimes of the recent German past.
~ A German jurist by the name of Baumann in the German juridical magazine NJW, quoted in: Bailer-Galanda/Benz/Neugebauer (ed.), Die Auschwitzleugner, Berlin 1996, page 261 (my translation).

Aryan Scholar
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Re: The Communist censorship of the Jewish Holocaust theory

Post by Aryan Scholar »

Roberto wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:21 pm
Aryan Scholar wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:05 pm
Roberto wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 12:52 pm
Aryan Scholar wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 12:30 pm


I am Brazilian.
Not one that honors his country, that's for sure. Fortunately I know many Brazilians who are not deluded racists, so there's no risk that I might gain a wrong impression.

Anyway, your being Brazilian means that you're an example of how an immigration country absorbs its immigrants instead of immigrants enforcing their ways on the country they live in. Unless, of course, you repudiate your Brazilian nationality and only endorse the values of your apparently Polish heritage, but your self-identifying as a Brazilian suggests the opposite.
Aryan Scholar wrote:There is no "many Brazilians are of Polish descent" in Brazil when compared with the racially mixed vast majority of the population. Moreover, the word "polaco" (which is a slang in Brazilian Portuguese) is more used than the word "poloneses" in Brazil.
Here it's perfectly fine to use the word "polaco", and not considered insulting at all. So, do you identify as a Pole or as a Brazilian?
Aryan Scholar wrote:Thanks to show how much stupid you are by trying to lecture me about Brazil.
That's a rather stupid remark as I didn't know you were Brazilian. While I don't claim to have the same knowledge of the country as a native has, I also don't think a deluded racist like you is someone to be relied on when it comes to Brazilian affairs.
Aryan Scholar wrote:
Which none of the immigrants really care as they are looking to replace it with the history of their own racial origin.
So how do you know what "the immigrants" care about or not and that they "are looking to replace it wit the history of their own racial origin"? Did little birdie tell you?

Even if first generation immigrants should stick to their own culture and not have much interest in integration, it will be hard for them to sell that to descendants who are born and grow up in Germany. The latter will be as German as you are Brazilian. Or like Japanese-Americans are American.
Where did I said I have Polish heritage? Exactly nowhere.
Hence the "apparently", genius. I deducted that from the fact that you apparently understand the Polish language.
Aryan Scholar wrote:I see you are also too stupid to comprehend nationality is different than racial origin.
No, I know the difference. As I know that the former tends to prevail over the latter, except perhaps I deluded racists like you.
Aryan Scholar wrote:Thanks once more to confirm you are in support of your own race being replaced by foreign races in their own ancient homelands.
Now there you finally got something right. The concept of "race" means nothing to me. And I consider anyone who makes a big deal about "race" an asshole.
Aryan Scholar wrote:You do not just like to apologize for Soviets, but also for the genocide of Germans.
Just like the US melting pot was not a "genocide of Americans" and the Brazilian melting pot was not a "genocide of Brazilians", an eventual German melting pot (which is unlikely as the overwhelming majority of Germany's inhabitants are of German ethnicity and that's not likely to change) would also no be a "genocide of Germans", except in the views of deluded racists. It would be a diversification and improvement of Germans. As to the "apologize for Soviets", you better look at the fellow who refuses to make a statement about what atrocities attributed to the Soviets he considers factual, and whose proclaimed standards of evidence would make him the greatest Soviet apologist around if applied to Soviet atrocities. For then Stalin's killing record would be reduced to the Katyn and Vinnista massacres. Just about 13,000 proven stiffs on Stalin's head.
There never was a race called Brazilians to be a genocide of Brazilians.

:roll:

You are extremely stupid when the subject is race, nationality and history.

Moreover, you pretend you are not a racist but here you are talking about how racial mixture will be an improvement for the Germans as you are arguing for the superiority of the German race over other races after it is diversified.

Roberto
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Re: The Communist censorship of the Jewish Holocaust theory

Post by Roberto »

Aryan Scholar wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 8:49 pm
Roberto wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:21 pm
Aryan Scholar wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:05 pm
Roberto wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 12:52 pm


Not one that honors his country, that's for sure. Fortunately I know many Brazilians who are not deluded racists, so there's no risk that I might gain a wrong impression.

Anyway, your being Brazilian means that you're an example of how an immigration country absorbs its immigrants instead of immigrants enforcing their ways on the country they live in. Unless, of course, you repudiate your Brazilian nationality and only endorse the values of your apparently Polish heritage, but your self-identifying as a Brazilian suggests the opposite.



Here it's perfectly fine to use the word "polaco", and not considered insulting at all. So, do you identify as a Pole or as a Brazilian?



That's a rather stupid remark as I didn't know you were Brazilian. While I don't claim to have the same knowledge of the country as a native has, I also don't think a deluded racist like you is someone to be relied on when it comes to Brazilian affairs.



So how do you know what "the immigrants" care about or not and that they "are looking to replace it wit the history of their own racial origin"? Did little birdie tell you?

Even if first generation immigrants should stick to their own culture and not have much interest in integration, it will be hard for them to sell that to descendants who are born and grow up in Germany. The latter will be as German as you are Brazilian. Or like Japanese-Americans are American.
Where did I said I have Polish heritage? Exactly nowhere.
Hence the "apparently", genius. I deducted that from the fact that you apparently understand the Polish language.
Aryan Scholar wrote:I see you are also too stupid to comprehend nationality is different than racial origin.
No, I know the difference. As I know that the former tends to prevail over the latter, except perhaps I deluded racists like you.
Aryan Scholar wrote:Thanks once more to confirm you are in support of your own race being replaced by foreign races in their own ancient homelands.
Now there you finally got something right. The concept of "race" means nothing to me. And I consider anyone who makes a big deal about "race" an asshole.
Aryan Scholar wrote:You do not just like to apologize for Soviets, but also for the genocide of Germans.
Just like the US melting pot was not a "genocide of Americans" and the Brazilian melting pot was not a "genocide of Brazilians", an eventual German melting pot (which is unlikely as the overwhelming majority of Germany's inhabitants are of German ethnicity and that's not likely to change) would also no be a "genocide of Germans", except in the views of deluded racists. It would be a diversification and improvement of Germans. As to the "apologize for Soviets", you better look at the fellow who refuses to make a statement about what atrocities attributed to the Soviets he considers factual, and whose proclaimed standards of evidence would make him the greatest Soviet apologist around if applied to Soviet atrocities. For then Stalin's killing record would be reduced to the Katyn and Vinnista massacres. Just about 13,000 proven stiffs on Stalin's head.
There never was a race called Brazilians to be a genocide of Brazilians.
There was also never a race called Germans. The ethnic origin of the German people is diverse. In the east, for instance, it includes strong Slavic elements.
Aryan Scholar wrote:You are extremely stupid when the subject is race, nationality and history.
Says a racist who doesn't know jack shit about history. Racists are stupid people. There's even a Brazilian song stating just that.
Aryan Scholar wrote:Moreover, you pretend you are not a racist but here you are talking about how racial mixture will be an improvement for the Germans as you are arguing for the superiority of the German race over other races after it is diversified.
No, improvement doesn't mean superiority.
Denial of generally known historical facts should not be punishable. For those who maintain, for instance, that Germany did not take part in World War I or that Adenauer fought at Issus in 333, their own stupidity is punishment enough. The same should apply to the denial of the horrors and crimes of the recent German past.
~ A German jurist by the name of Baumann in the German juridical magazine NJW, quoted in: Bailer-Galanda/Benz/Neugebauer (ed.), Die Auschwitzleugner, Berlin 1996, page 261 (my translation).

Aryan Scholar
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Re: The Communist censorship of the Jewish Holocaust theory

Post by Aryan Scholar »

Roberto wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 8:57 pm
Aryan Scholar wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 8:49 pm
Roberto wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:21 pm
Aryan Scholar wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:05 pm


Where did I said I have Polish heritage? Exactly nowhere.
Hence the "apparently", genius. I deducted that from the fact that you apparently understand the Polish language.
Aryan Scholar wrote:I see you are also too stupid to comprehend nationality is different than racial origin.
No, I know the difference. As I know that the former tends to prevail over the latter, except perhaps I deluded racists like you.
Aryan Scholar wrote:Thanks once more to confirm you are in support of your own race being replaced by foreign races in their own ancient homelands.
Now there you finally got something right. The concept of "race" means nothing to me. And I consider anyone who makes a big deal about "race" an asshole.
Aryan Scholar wrote:You do not just like to apologize for Soviets, but also for the genocide of Germans.
Just like the US melting pot was not a "genocide of Americans" and the Brazilian melting pot was not a "genocide of Brazilians", an eventual German melting pot (which is unlikely as the overwhelming majority of Germany's inhabitants are of German ethnicity and that's not likely to change) would also no be a "genocide of Germans", except in the views of deluded racists. It would be a diversification and improvement of Germans. As to the "apologize for Soviets", you better look at the fellow who refuses to make a statement about what atrocities attributed to the Soviets he considers factual, and whose proclaimed standards of evidence would make him the greatest Soviet apologist around if applied to Soviet atrocities. For then Stalin's killing record would be reduced to the Katyn and Vinnista massacres. Just about 13,000 proven stiffs on Stalin's head.
There never was a race called Brazilians to be a genocide of Brazilians.
There was also never a race called Germans. The ethnic origin of the German people is diverse. In the east, for instance, it includes strong Slavic elements.
Aryan Scholar wrote:You are extremely stupid when the subject is race, nationality and history.
Says a racist who doesn't know jack shit about history. Racists are stupid people. There's even a Brazilian song stating just that.
Aryan Scholar wrote:Moreover, you pretend you are not a racist but here you are talking about how racial mixture will be an improvement for the Germans as you are arguing for the superiority of the German race over other races after it is diversified.
No, improvement doesn't mean superiority.
So what improvement means if not to make something better and superior than another?

You are the true racist here as you are the one arguing racial diversification is an improvement for Germans.
Last edited by Aryan Scholar on Sat May 27, 2017 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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