Transit Challenge Submission

Discuss the alleged Nazi genocide or other wartime atrocities without fear of censorship. No bullying of fellow posters is allowed at RODOH. If you can't be civil, please address the argument and not the participants. Do not use disparaging alterations of the user-names of other RODOH posters or their family members. Failure to heed warnings from Moderators will result in a 24 hour ban (or longer if necessary).
Roberto
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Re: Transit Challenge Submission

Post by Roberto »

been-there wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:08 am
blake121666 wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:31 am
Rudolf still thinks his Siegmund Rothstein example answers the "Transit Challenge" in a recent interview:

http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2017/06/the ... ow_27.html

He also claims that a non-Jewish Pole told him that he (or his father, I don't remember exactly) transited through "Treblinka". I am of course assuming that Rudolf meant T-II - although maybe Rudolf is not fully aware of the whole Treblinka, Treblinka Village, Treblinka Station, Malkinia Station, T-II confusions.

Does anyone here think this Rothstein is an example of a Jew transited through T-II to "the Russian East"?

It seems throughout this interview of these things that Rudolf is quite out of his depth on this particular "transit camp" issue.
Personally I think you might be projecting what is in fact your own confusion about what you call "the whole Treblinka, Treblinka Village, Treblinka Station, Malkinia Station, T-II confusions" onto others.
This has been patiently — and in detail — been pointed out to you before.
In that discussion you showed that initially you weren't aware of these distinctions of place. And then when an explanation was provided with photographic and cartographic evidence, you still refused to alter your original position.

No-one was 'transited' through Treblinka Village or Treblinka Station.
Now that's quite true, and applies all the more to T-II "transit camp". Treblinka station at least was on a main line leading somewhere. T-II was on a branch line leading nowhere.
been-there wrote:Aktion Reinhardt was an operation concerned with exile, epidemic prevention, wealth seizure and control chiefly for labour purposes of European Jews.


Yeah, I guess that's why Globocnik mentioned that "the documents regarding all other work in this matter have already been destroyed", in his letter to Himmler dated 5 January 1944.

And why no "exile" destination other than Belzec, Sobibór or Treblinka is mentioned in transportation documents and related correspondence.

And why Goebbels, in his diary entry of 27 March 1942, referred to the liquidation of the Jews from the General Government by a "barbaric procedure" that even the everything-other-than-squeamish Goebbels didn't want to describe more precisely, and stated that a "judgment" was being visited upon the Jews.

And why Stroop mentioned T-II as a place where Jews were sent in order to be "liquidated" or destroyed".

Any why SS-men involved in the operation were sworn to secrecy and forbidden to taken photographs.

And why Viktor Brack, in a letter to Himmler dated 23 June 1942, in which he recommended that 2-3 million able-bodied Jews out an assumed ten million should be spared provided that they would be sterilized, mentioned a statement of the Reichsführer's whereby one should work as fast as possible already for reasons of camouflage.

And of course an "operation concerned with epidemic prevention, wealth seizure and control chiefly for labour purposes of European Jews" also explains the following further evidence mentioned by Browning in his expert report for the defense at the Irving-Lipstadt trial (https://www.hdot.org/browning/#):
The Oberfeldkommandant reported the following month:

The Jewish population displays the deepest depression, which is completely understandable because on the one hand in various locations in the district the well-known actions against the Jews occur again and on the other hand in Lemberg the temporarily interrupted resettlement of Jews resumes; in the meantime it is whispered also among the Jews that the evacuees never reach the resettlement territory that is alleged to them as the destination.

The deportations from Galicia broke off during the months of May, June, and July 1942, but resumed in August. In October the Oberfeldkommandant reported again:

The resettlement actions continue undiminished. The Jews are informed of their fate. Indicative is the statement of a member of the Lwow Jewish council: We all carry our death certificates in our pocket--only the date of death is not yet filled out.112

The trains deporting Jews from Galicia did indeed go to Belzec, as can be seen in the report of Reserve Lieutenant Westermann of the 7th company of Police Regiment 24, whose men helped round up the Jews in Kolomyja and nearby towns and then guarded two transports to Belzec on September 7 and 10, 1942. The first contained 4,769 Jews in 50 train cars and went without incident. The second involved 8,205 Jews. Many had been held for days without food and force-marched 35-50 kilometers to the train in blistering heat. They were then packed into train cars, in many cases 180-200 per car, virtually without ventilation. As Lieutenant Westermann concluded: "The ever greater panic spreading among the Jews due to the great heat, overloading of the train cars, and stink of the dead--when unloading the train cars some 2,000 Jews were found dead in the train--made the transport almost unworkable."Nevertheless the train that left Kolomyja at 8:50 pm. on September 10 finally crawled into Belzec at 6:45 pm on September 11.113

[...]

The deportations from Bialystok, a district east of Treblinka, are of special significance for two reasons. First, these deportations from Bialystok make clear that Treblinka was not a transit camp for the expulsion of Jews eastward from the General Government. Rather the tiny village of Treblinka, like Belzec, was a point at which transports of Jews converged from east and west. Moreover, the fate of the Bialystok Jews in the fall of 1942 was clearly stated in Himmler's report to Hitler of December 31, 1942. The Jews of Bialystok were among the 363,211 "Jews executed." The fate of the Jews sent to Treblinka is also reflected in a report noted in the October 10, 1942, entry to the War Diary of the Oberquartiermeister of the military commander in Poland.

OK Ostrow reports that the Jews in Treblinka are not adequately buried and as a result an unbearable smell of cadavers pollutes the air.118
Those Jews at Treblinka whose insufficiently buried corpses issued a stench that polluted a large are must have all died from some extremely deadly "epidemic". Maybe bubonic, pneumonic or septacemic plague broke out among them.
been-there wrote:I am one who has the informed opinion that Sigmund Rothstein is an example of a Jew transited through T-II to "the Russian East", specifically Minsk.
As previously explained here and here.
Yeah, and that shit was duly taken apart, in the following posts among others:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2823#p98506
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2823&start=30#p98622
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2823&start=50#p98719
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2823&start=60#p98736
been-there wrote:
Carlo Mattogno has pointed out a particularly illuminating case of a Jewish individual transited through Treblinka. It concerns the fate of a certain Minna Grossova, who was born on Sept. 20, 1874. On October 19, 1942, this 68-year-old lady was deported to Treblinka — at a time when on average some 5,000 Jews are said to have been killed and buried there every single day.
But instead of getting killed there, she was sent to Auschwitz, where she … no, was not sent to the gas chambers either, although she was most certainly not “fit for labour,” but lived there another 14 months, finally dying there on December 30th.
If Mrs. Grossova at age 68 was spared death in the gas chambers of Treblinka and Auschwitz, it is likely that the many hundreds of her fellow sufferers deported together with her shared her fate as well. This fate, too, underlines that Treblinka was indeed used as a transit camp where not even old, frail Jews were murdered.
Sure, one single case that would have been an exceptional oversight is supposed to "underline" that "Treblinka was indeed used as a transit camp where not even old, frail Jews were murdered". Some "logic".

Mattogno writes the following in his book about Belzec (pp. 107/108 of the English translation):
The case of Minna Grossova, a Czech Jewess, is particularly significant; born on September 20, 1874, she was deported to Treblinka October 19, 1942, but died on December 30, 1943, at Auschwitz.355 Thus, in spite of her 68 years of age, she was not only not ‘gassed’ at Treblinka, but was indeed moved to Auschwitz, where she was duly registered; hence, she survived even the ‘selection’ on arrival.


Mattogno's claim about Minna Grossová is based on Terezínská Pamétní Kniha, Terezínská Iniciativa, Melantrich 1995, p. 393. The information is also online under http://www.holocaust.cz/en/database-of- ... -grossova/:
Minna Grossová
Born 20. 09. 1874
Last residence before deportation: Jevíčko
Address/place of registration in the Protectorate: Jevíčko
Transport Ac, no. 855 (19. 03. 1942, Brno -> Terezín)
Transport Bw, no. 330 (19. 10. 1942, Terezín -> Treblinka)
Murdered 30. 12. 1943 Auschwitz
The deportation chronology under http://www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbuch/c ... .de?page=1 suggests that transports from Auschwitz to Theresienstadt went there directly and not via Treblinka, a detour that would have made no sense as a look at maps reveals:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Ter ... 4.1505577
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/O%C ... 19.2097782
https://www.rome2rio.com/s/Terez%C3%ADn/Krakow

Auschwitz was probably on a line leading from Theresienstadt (Terezín) to Kraków, so going there by train from Theresienstadt via Treblinka (northeast of Warsaw, much further away) would have been a most stupid thing to do.

The database of Auschwitz prisoner names (http://auschwitz.org/en/museum/auschwitz-prisoners/ ) contains no information under any of the surnames "Grossová", "Grossova", "Grosová" or "Grosova". A search under the first name "Minna" reveals one "Gross, Mina Sara", born 1866-08-05, who was "murdered" on 30.12.1943, the same date on which Minna Grossová is supposed to have been "murdered" at Auschwitz. Given Mrs. Gross's age, it is probable that she was an inmate of the Terezín family camp, regarding which the page http://www.holocaust.cz/en/history/even ... -birkenau/ contains the following information:
In September 1943 five thousand prisoners were deported from the Terezín ghetto to Auschwitz-Birkenau in two transports.Unlike previous transports, they received unusual “privileges”: on arriving at the camp they did not undergo the usual selections, and families were also not divided up into various sections in the camp - hence the “family” camp. The “privileges” also included the fact that the Terezín prisoners were not subjected to the humiliating ritual of having their heads shaved on arrival, and that children were allowed to spend daytimes in a children's block. In December 1943 and May 1944, further large transports from Terezín brought a further 12,500 prisoners, who were placed in the family camp. While the first transports consisted exclusively of prisoners who had come to Terezín from the Czech lands, almost half the prisoners on later transports were Jews who had initially been deported from Germany, Austria and the Netherlands.
The chronology under http://www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbuch/c ... .de?page=1 mentions one transport from Theresienstadt to Auschwitz on 15 December 1943 (arrival on 16 December 1943) and another transport from Theresienstadt to Auschwitz on 18 December 1943 (arrival on 20 December 1943). Considering the above-quoted information whereby transports from Terezín arrived at Auschwitz in December 1943, Minna Sara Gross must have been on either of these transports. Registered as an inmate of the Terezín family camp, she must have died soon after her arrival due to her old age and conditions at that camp.

So there are the following indications that Minna Grossová (transported on 19.10.1942 to Trelinka and murdered there) was mixed up by the authors of the Terezín memorial book with Minna Sara Gross (transported to Auschwitz on either 15 or 18 December 1943, registered as an inmate of the Terezín family camp, and "murdered" on 30.12.1943 - quote marks because she is likely to have died of "natural" causes, as the Jews of the Terezín family camp were killed only six months after their arrival):

1. The similarity of surnames (Gross/Grossová, the latter possibly being a female surname corresponding to the male surname "Gross" in Czech language);
2. The absence of a person with the surname "Grossová" or similar in the Auschwitz prisoners database;
3. The date of Minna Sara Gross's death at Auschwitz (30.12.1943, which coincides with Minna Grossová's claimed date of death in the Terezín memorial book);
4. The logistical senselessness of transporting people from Theresienstadt to Auschwitz via Treblinka, which was much further away from Theresienstadt than Auschwitz.

Given the above, the likeliest possibility is that the Terezín memorial book mixed up Minna Sara Gross and Minna Grossová.

Thus there's no banana for "Revisionists" here.
Denial of generally known historical facts should not be punishable. For those who maintain, for instance, that Germany did not take part in World War I or that Adenauer fought at Issus in 333, their own stupidity is punishment enough. The same should apply to the denial of the horrors and crimes of the recent German past.
~ A German jurist by the name of Baumann in the German juridical magazine NJW, quoted in: Bailer-Galanda/Benz/Neugebauer (ed.), Die Auschwitzleugner, Berlin 1996, page 261 (my translation).


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been-there
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Re: Transit Challenge Submission

Post by been-there »

Roberto wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:41 pm
And why SS-men involved in the operation were sworn to secrecy and forbidden to taken photographs.
Oh yeah. Sworn to secrecy. Of course. And all evidence must be destroyed, right? Top secret.
Strange that, as somehow we are taught that really everybody knew, so all Germans are guilty.
AND only a tiny number knew and they were all sworn to secrecy (or if sonderkommando were killed). Hmmm?

This is the holocaust 'history'. Where everything fits the narrative, no matter how much it doesn't actually fit,
and no matter if evidence even refutes it. :roll:

So... OK. Yeah, Fotografien verboten! Fotografieren streng verboten!

Oh no, ...holy batshit! :o What is this?? A whole photo album of Treblinka??! And it wasn't destroyed? But... but... how can that be?
Just one page of the photographs from the private album of Kurt Franz from the time of his service as Deputy Commandant of Treblinka.

Image

Photographer: SS officer Kurt Franz
Origin: Justizverwaltung des Landes Nordrhein- Westfalen
Name of submitter: Leitender Oberstaatsanwalt-Dusseldorf
Description: The album was titled "Good Times" (Schöne Zeiten). It was discovered by German investigators in Franz' flat in 1959 at the time of his arrest.

The album was presented by the persecution as an evidence during the Treblinka Trial in 1965.

Although the photos do not document any clear criminal act, they depict different activities and installations in Treblinka while mass killing took place there. :roll:
Credit: Yad Vashem
Collection: Yad Vashem Photo Archive, Yad Vashem Photo Archive
Archival signature: 1448
Album number: FA200/34 , FA200/0
Album item no: 7316698
Album Title: A private album of Kurt Franz from the time he served in the Treblinka extermination camp.

https://www.google.com/culturalinstitut ... Cs5fugHh-w
And look at that! It actually states there på Vad Yashem that the trial of Kurt 'Latke' Franz was a “persecution" (not a prosecution).
What a freudian slip. :D
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: Transit Challenge Submission

Post by SFinesilver »

blake121666 wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:31 am
Rudolf still thinks his Siegmund Rothstein example answers the "Transit Challenge" in a recent interview:

http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2017/06/the ... ow_27.html

He also claims that a non-Jewish Pole told him that he (or his father, I don't remember exactly) transited through "Treblinka". I am of course assuming that Rudolf meant T-II - although maybe Rudolf is not fully aware of the whole Treblinka, Treblinka Village, Treblinka Station, Malkinia Station, T-II confusions.

Does anyone here think this Rothstein is an example of a Jew transited through T-II to "the Russian East"?

It seems throughout this interview of these things that Rudolf is quite out of his depth on this particular "transit camp" issue.
Rudolf conveniently refuses to address the following statement of fact from The N.A.F.H.:
Not only has it been forensically proven that the “huge mass grave” claims / allegations / insinuations made about these four so-called “holocausts within the holocaust” are as transparently fraudulent as the “eyewitnesses” and “scientists” who made them,

it has never been proven that so-much-as ten percent of those fraudulently alleged to be currently buried at these “sacred” archaeological sites - ever - even set foot in the so-called “crime scenes” - not ten percent.

...


And for those weak-willed true-believers who lack the courage, integrity and character to accept - The C.S.I. Challenge; The N.A.F.H. also offers - a monetary reward for simply identifying / proving any untrue statement of fact found on this webpage.

http://nafcash.com/

What is Rudolf waiting for?

What is he so afraid of?
D - Has it been alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II, Germany used "resettlement to the east" as a euphemism for transiting jews to the so-called "top secret" - PURE EXTERMINATION CAMPS - Yes. - or - No. - ?? - Nessie's answer: Yes.

E - Has it been alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II, the so-called "pure extermination camps" were - THE END OF THE LINE - for virtually everyone transited to those camps - Yes. - or - No. - ?? - Nessie's answer: Yes.

Is it - True. - or - False. - that; during WW II, Germany actually transited jews to labor camps / ghettos - that were located east of the Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka II camps - ?? - Nessie's answer: True.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2078&start=210#p65945

Roberto
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Re: Transit Challenge Submission

Post by Roberto »

been-there wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:42 pm
Roberto wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:41 pm
And why SS-men involved in the operation were sworn to secrecy and forbidden to taken photographs.
Oh yeah. Sworn to secrecy. Of course. And all evidence must be destroyed, right? Top secret.
Strange that, as somehow we are taught that really everybody knew, so all Germans are guilty.
AND only a tiny number knew and they were all sworn to secrecy (or if sonderkommando were killed). Hmmm?
Who said that "really everybody knew" and thus "all Germans are guilty"? Knowing (especially knowing the details) and not wanting to know are two different pairs of boots. And I'm not sure if even the latter accusation was made against "all Germans". Any sources?
been-there wrote:This is the holocaust 'history'. Where everything fits the narrative, no matter how much it doesn't actually fit,
and no matter if evidence even refutes it.
What "evidence" conforming with the "Revisionist" faith is supposed to refute what exactly here.
been-there wrote:So... OK. Yeah, Fotografien verboten! Fotografieren streng verboten!

Oh no, ...holy batshit! :o What is this?? A whole photo album of Treblinka??! And it wasn't destroyed? But... but... how can that be?
Yeah, Franz took photos. So what? He acted in violation of his secrecy undertaking by doing so. And he apparently took care to not photograph any ugly stuff, so that the shit-canning was less severe in case someone blew the whistle on him. Then again, it seems that there were pictures he had torn out of his album by the time it was discovered, so maybe he didn't give a damn about violating his secrecy undertaking. Either way, so what?
been-there wrote:And look at that! It actually states there på Vad Yashem that the trial of Kurt 'Latke' Franz was a “persecution" (not a prosecution). What a freudian slip.
Duh. I take this to mean that "been-there" would like to believe that Franz got an unfair trial by the Düsseldorf Jury Court. Needless to say, he can provide no indication that any procedural rules were violated at the trial of Franz et al.
Denial of generally known historical facts should not be punishable. For those who maintain, for instance, that Germany did not take part in World War I or that Adenauer fought at Issus in 333, their own stupidity is punishment enough. The same should apply to the denial of the horrors and crimes of the recent German past.
~ A German jurist by the name of Baumann in the German juridical magazine NJW, quoted in: Bailer-Galanda/Benz/Neugebauer (ed.), Die Auschwitzleugner, Berlin 1996, page 261 (my translation).

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Re: Transit Challenge Submission

Post by SFinesilver »

Roberto:
I take this to mean that "been-there" would like to believe that Franz got an unfair trial by the Düsseldorf Jury Court. Needless to say, he can provide no indication that any procedural rules were violated at the trial of Franz et al.

Was this trial you're talking about a murder trial - Yes. - or - No. - ??

If your answer is - Yes. - then; Did the trial solve this case, or is it still considered an unsolved murder case?
D - Has it been alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II, Germany used "resettlement to the east" as a euphemism for transiting jews to the so-called "top secret" - PURE EXTERMINATION CAMPS - Yes. - or - No. - ?? - Nessie's answer: Yes.

E - Has it been alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II, the so-called "pure extermination camps" were - THE END OF THE LINE - for virtually everyone transited to those camps - Yes. - or - No. - ?? - Nessie's answer: Yes.

Is it - True. - or - False. - that; during WW II, Germany actually transited jews to labor camps / ghettos - that were located east of the Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka II camps - ?? - Nessie's answer: True.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2078&start=210#p65945

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Re: Transit Challenge Submission

Post by blake121666 »

I think the fact, as Roberto put it above, that T-II was "on a branch line leading nowhere" means that T-II was not JUST a "transit camp". There would have to be some reason to stop the train at Treblinka Station and shunt the cars 20 at a time into T-II. THAT is not what one would expect from a dedicated "transit camp". So Revisionists need to drop the thought of T-II being SIMPLY a transit camp.

After one does that, then one can respond to a claim such as Roberto's claim above that
Roberto wrote:going there [Auschwitz] by train from Theresienstadt via Treblinka (northeast of Warsaw, much further [sic - he means "farther"] away) would have been a most stupid thing to do
One could say she was transported to T-II for some reason - such as for hygienic and/or looting reasons.

The T-II as solely a transit camp thesis makes little sense.

Rudolf's interview suggests to me that he isn't up to speed on what Aktion Reinhard was in detail: what camps were involved, those responsible for things, what the purpose was, ... etc. There is WAY too much hand-waving of little substance going on in the Revisionist camp on this subject (AR). And I consider this behavior to be a petulant "negationism" - no substance to it. It can be, and will be, simply ignored by people who want substance - backed up with evidence.

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Re: Transit Challenge Submission

Post by been-there »

blake121666 wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:52 am
I think the fact, as Roberto put it above, that T-II was "on a branch line leading nowhere" means that T-II was not JUST a "transit camp". There would have to be some reason to stop the train at Treblinka Station and shunt the cars 20 at a time into T-II. THAT is not what one would expect from a dedicated "transit camp". So Revisionists need to drop the thought of T-II being SIMPLY a transit camp.
Wow! :o
But that is EXACTLY what I would expect from a 'transit camp' on a short spur line that had been erected close to and was operated by some of the same people who operated a pre-existing gravel quarry 'labour camp'. (T1).

OK. Let's put this in its bigger context...

1. During World War 2 there was a 'war' going on.

2. People with ethnic origins related to enemy nations were regarded as potentially hostile internal threats by ALL the participant warring nations and were incarcerated in 'concentration camps' and 'labour camps'. That requires rounding up, getting them to railways, moving them on trains. ALL the warring nations did this to those of their own citizens with the perceived 'wrong' ethnic background. Moving masses of people around on trains doesn't equate with genocide yet.

3. Germany originally just made people regarded as 'potentially hostile Jewish fifth-columnists' wear an identifying yellow star, but later decided to effect a 'final solution' that involved forcing them to emigrate and/or incarcerating them for the duration of the war with the intent of using those able for work, and after victory making them all leave. I.e. exile. E.g. Madagascar was one plan that didn't work out.

4. Rounding up and then moving trainloads of people was just one part of that operation. Other aspects were a.) preventing spread of disease/preventing dangerous epidemics, b.) acquiring needed labour and c.) wealth appropriation. In Canada, America and Britain the same level of cases and risks of Typhus disease among the perceived hostile aliens weren't there. Typhus carriers amongst Polish and Eastern Jews was a pre-existing problem BEFORE WW2.

5. Remember point 1 that there was a war going on. A 'total war', declared by Britain but pushed by international jewry, and after their defeat at Dunkirk with Germany's genuine peace offers rejected before they had even been received or considered. A 'total war' now declared by Britain to be executed with no mercy, with German civilians deliberately targeted and with Germany threatened with annihilation. An escalated 'total war' with people claiming to represent international Jewry working to get America involved against Germany again. Remember that one of international Jewry's representatives Chaim Weizmann bragged that they (Jews) had succesfully done exactly that in WW1. Recall also that most people in Germany — especially Hitler, the wehrmacht top brass and the NSDAP leadership — were bitterly aware of how they had been forced into penury, starvation and widespread national economic and social depression after the unjustly punitive conclusion of WW1. I.e. Germans were perceived to be fighting for their very existence.

6. Remember point 4. moving truckloads/trainloads of people was just one part of that 'endlösung' operation. Other aspects were a.) preventing spread of disease/preventing dangerous epidemics, b.) acquiring needed labour and c.) wealth appropriation.

7. A transit 'camp' is where people ENTER for a time BEFORE BEING TRANSITED TO SOMEWHERE ELSE. If they just stop at a railway station temporarily that is NOT a 'camp'. That's a transit stop. Malkinia could have been such a 'transit stop'. But no-one has ever claimed this. So that is PRECISELY WHY a 'camp' would have been required close to Malkinia.

8. Treblinka village and its Treblinka railway station were tiny. There was no 'camp' there.

9. Treblinka 2 was not only a transit 'point'. It was a fenced 'camp', with buildings, barracks, a bakery, a zoo, a steam facility for disinfecting clothes, with large 'shower' rooms, etc., etc. and with a permanent staff of operators.

10. Treblinka 2 was operated by 25 to 35 German SS and police officials plus a police auxiliary guard unit of between 90 and 150 men.

11. It apparently served numerous functions which the holocaust narrative confuses in order to maintain only ONE 'extermination narrative': it augmented and fed operators of the gravel quarry camp (T1), it became an 'education camp' for labour camp troublemakers, AND its function as a transit camp*/extermination camp*, (*take your pick).
USHMM wrote:The camp [T1] also served the SS and police authorities as a so-called Labour Education Camp for non-Jewish Poles whom the Germans perceived to have violated labour discipline.
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.ph ... d=10005193
. . . .
blake121666 wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:52 am
...[snip]...One could say she was transported to T-II for some reason - such as for hygienic and/or looting reasons.
The T-II as solely a transit camp thesis makes little sense.
I think it makes perfect sense!
Your problem seems to be you still don't really understand the local geography. You don't appear to understand what the function of a 'transit camp' would have been. And you don't appear to understand what Aktion Reinhardt was about.
You appear to have a good understanding of small engineering details, but you appear to me to not have begun to understand the big picture of WW2, nor Aktion Reinhardt, nor what 'Die Endlösung der Judenfraga' was actually about according to the actual documentation.
blake121666 wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:52 am
Rudolf's interview suggests to me that he isn't up to speed on what Aktion Reinhard was in detail: what camps were involved, those responsible for things, what the purpose was, ... etc. There is WAY too much hand-waving of little substance going on in the Revisionist camp on this subject (AR). And I consider this behavior to be a petulant "negationism" - no substance to it. It can be, and will be, simply ignored by people who want substance - backed up with evidence.
I think you are projecting your own confusion and lack of a basic understanding onto others.
You need to understand why you need a 'camp' at a transit point.
You need to consider what will be the function of such a 'transit CAMP', and so what it will require.

• If T2 was such a 'transit camp' for preventing spread of disease, it would need shower facilities and clothes disinfectation facilities (T2 had showers/*killing chambers and steam rooms).

• If T2 was such a 'transit camp' for selecting suitable prison-labour camp workers, and transiting them to prison-labour camps, it would need a fence to prevent escape (T2 had a fence) large showering facilites for disease control (T2 had *shower rooms/*killing chambers), food making facilities (T2 had a bakery), clean camp clothes storage, and barracks for inmates and camp operators (T2 had barracks, permant camp workers and guards).

• If T2 was such a 'transit camp' for wealth appropriation/theft/looting then you need somewhere to store and sort it, people to sort it and document it, and guards to protect it.

• If T2 was such a 'transit camp' for exiling people via train into the russian zone, it would need to be situated where the railway guage changes. (T2 was exactly at such a 'changing' point: close by Malkinia and served by the pre-existing camp serving T1.)

SUMMARY
Malkinia Railway junction, Treblinka village, and Treblinka Village Railway station didn't have ANY of these NEEDED FACILITIES!!!

Image
The Kurt Franz Map of Treblinka. In his handwriting Franz indicates names of SS men where they served in the camp.

Image
Kurt Franz

Image

On 31st July 1941, Reinhard Heydrich received an order from Herman Göring to solve “the Jewish question”. What later became known as 'the Final Solution'. And much later still as 'THE Holocaust'.
Göring ordered Reinhard Heydrich “to submit to me as soon as possible a general plan...”
Göring recounted briefly the outline for that which he didn't call a “final solution” but a “total solution” — that had been drawn up on January 24, 1939. It was emigration or evacuation in the best possible way.”

Treblinka2 still fits with both:
1. the DOCUMENTED 'evacuation' plan plus forced labour plan,
as well as with
2. the undocumented alleged 'extermination' plan.

The problematical issues with T2 for a fair historical approach remains:
i.) the absence of documentation for onward transits, and absence of evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jews onwardly transited.
ii.) the absence of forensic evidence for the claimed 700-900,000 remains at the site.

ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE is not evidence of absence!
We don't have the appropriate documentation of the alleged extermination programme.
We don't have the appropriate documentation of the transit programme either.

But consider this: we don't have the appropriate documentation of the looting/wealth appropriation programme either, and yet no-one denies this aspect. Why isn't that made more of in the enforced official narrative?
I think its because the actual documentary evidenced aspect of the Aktion Reinhardt operation is played down because it detracts from its alleged meaning which is purely 'extermination'. This is just one small aspect of the deliberately deceitful nature of 'holocaust' popular history.
Last edited by been-there on Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

onetruth
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Re: Transit Challenge Submission

Post by onetruth »

been-there wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:48 am

2. People with ethnic origins related to enemy nations were regarded as potentially hostile internal threats by ALL the participant warring nations and were incarcerated in 'concentration camps' and 'labour camps'. That requires rounding up, getting them to railways, moving them on trains. ALL the warring nations did this to those of their own citizens with the perceived 'wrong' ethnic background. Moving masses of people around on trains doesn't equate with genocide yet.

3. Germany originally just made people regarded as 'potentially hostile Jewish fifth-columnists' wear an identifying yellow star, but later decided to effect a 'final solution' that involved forcing them to emigrate and/or incarcerating them for the duration of the war with the intent of using those able for work, and after victory making them all leave. I.e. exile. E.g. Madagascar was one plan that didn't work out.

It is not the first time i have read your attempt to justify the harassment of European jews by comparing them to for example to the arrest of Japanese in the US.

The difference is that Americans where at war with Japan, In Contrast European Jews where just citizens of their own countries - i am sure they where not sympathetic to the german cause , no more than the rest for example of the french , polish or dutch citizens. But the Nazis did not arrest all the polish or french citizens -- only the Jews and the only reason was their racist ideology which you try to justify - not that they posed any significant danger that was in anyway different than that of the other occupied people like the French Polish or Dutch.

In fact the Nazi party started harassment and persecution of jews the moment they came into power in 1933 . That had nothing to do with war but with the Nazis racist ideology that been there tries to justify. When the German occupied more territory they simply continued their policy of the persecution of jews to the new conquered territories,

In Germany Jews where banned from civil service as early as 1933,

In May 1935, Jews were forbidden to join the Wehrmacht - just to remind you thousand of jews died in world war I serving Germany but where now banned for racist reasons,

Also in 1935 came the racist law prohibiting sexual relations and marriages between Aryans and Jews. - again nothing to do with the war but with the Nazi party racist tendencies, It was in the same year that Jews where denied citizenship and barred from all professions.

All this happened years before the start of the war and shows that unlike what you try to claim - as if persecution of Jews had something to do with the war - it was done purely for the twisted and perverted racist tendencies of the Nazi party which you try to defend.

been-there wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:48 am
Typhus carriers amongst Polish and Eastern Jews was a pre-existing problem BEFORE WW2.

Sure , Jews spreading diseases ... - what racist disgusting site did you copy this filth from ?

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been-there
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Re: Transit Challenge Submission

Post by been-there »

onetruth wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:16 am
been-there wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:48 am

2. People with ethnic origins related to enemy nations were regarded as potentially hostile internal threats by ALL the participant warring nations and were incarcerated in 'concentration camps' and 'labour camps'. That requires rounding up, getting them to railways, moving them on trains. ALL the warring nations did this to those of their own citizens with the perceived 'wrong' ethnic background. Moving masses of people around on trains doesn't equate with genocide yet.

3. Germany originally just made people regarded as 'potentially hostile Jewish fifth-columnists' wear an identifying yellow star, but later decided to effect a 'final solution' that involved forcing them to emigrate and/or incarcerating them for the duration of the war with the intent of using those able for work, and after victory making them all leave. I.e. exile. E.g. Madagascar was one plan that didn't work out.
It is not the first time i have read your attempt to justify the. [blah, blah, rhubarb, rhubarb, blah]

In May 1935, Jews were forbidden to join the Wehrmacht...

Also in 1935 came the racist law prohibiting sexual relations and marriages between Aryans and Jews. - again nothing to do with the war but with the Nazi party racist tendencies, It was in the same year that Jews where denied citizenship and barred from all professions.

All this happened years before the start of the war and shows that unlike what you try to claim - as if persecution of Jews had something to do with the war - it was done purely for the twisted and perverted racist tendencies of the Nazi party which you try to defend...
You can repeat the official but deeply flawed, innaccurate, and in some aspects deliberately deceitful H-narrative as much and as often as you like but it doesn't make it true.
And neither is that engaging in a discussion.
Its a slightly more mature version than a child repeating 'did not', 'did not', 'did not', over and over again.

The alternative history is that Germans believed in the stab-in-the-back theory concerning some German Jews (together with International Jews of German and other European ethnic origin) co-operating for Germany's defeat in WW1. People say it has no basis in truth, but that is a very clear lie. Chaim Weizmann boasted of it to Neville Chamberlain. Chaim was a leader of World Jewry.

Mr. James A. Malcolm is the English sounding name of an Armenian Jew living in London who initiated the agreement for Jews internationally using their power and influence to bring USA into WW1 against Germany for a promise of a Jewish State in Palestine.
Chaim was involved in that too.
As was Leo Amery, who was a Jew and zionist in high office in Britain who succesfully kept secret his self-identification as a Jew working in government for Jewish-perceived interests.
http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/ ... aysJew.htm

As most people know (but maybe you didn't) that pan-national organisation — which certain influential Jews themselves called 'World Jewry' — declared a holy war of all Jews the world over AGAINST Hitler and Germany in April 1933.
Did you not know that!?

Hitler only came to lead a coalition government in March 1933. What had he done prior to that against 'the Jews'?

The World Jewish boycott of Germany, German goods and German trade commenced on April 1st 1933 and continued until after the war. Are you aware of any of this?

Two Jewish men assassinated/murdered two NSDAP officials for being German, and that was prior to a single Jew in Germany being targeted and killed for being Jewish.
Are you aware of that?

The first Jewish murderer of an innocent NSDAP official was in 1936. In January of that year a 26 year old Croation Jew called David Frankfurter travelled 210 kms from Bern to Davos Switzerland in order to murder Wilhelm Gustloff in front of his wife in their home. He shot him four times in the head and chest.
The second Jewish murderer of an innocent random German official was Herschel Feibel Grynszpan. Do you know about these murders?

How about these deaths.... Did you know about these?

Image

International Jew Dr. Chaim Weizmann, admitted on 3 December 1942 in New York that the entire Allied war production was based upon international Jewish financial support. He also admitted that the war of 1939 to 1945 was waged by international Jews, using propaganda and using Jews in Europe as a resistance movement or as 'fifth column' enemy within:

"We are not afraid to confess that this war is our war and that it is waged for the liberation of Jewry...
Stronger than all fronts together is our front, that of Jewry.
We are not only giving this war our financial support on which the entire war production is based, we are not only providing our full propaganda power which is the moral energy that keeps this war going. The guarantee of victory is predominantly based on weakening the enemy forces, on destroying them in their own country, within the resistance.
And we are the Trojan horses in the enemy's fortress.
Thousands of Jews living in Europe constitute the principal factor in the destruction of our enemy. There, our front is a fact and the most valuable aid for victory."


. . . . . .
onetruth wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:16 am
been-there wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:48 am
Typhus carriers amongst Polish and Eastern Jews was a pre-existing problem BEFORE WW2.
Sure , Jews spreading diseases ... - what racist disgusting site did you copy this filth from?
Where did I get that from? From studying historical documents instead of just believing the TV and the Hollywood film industry's distorted version of history.
Eastern European standards of living and standards of hygiene at that time were not what they are today. Eastern European Jewish ghettoes in particular were infamous for that.
Are you not aware of that either?

E.g. here is evidence of that, and how the occupying German authorities in 1939 tried to help them. Its from a Jewish author: Isaac Singer related how Gemans enlisted Rabbis to try and prevent typhus epidemics.
Was Isaac Singer's story repeating 'filth' in your view??
Image

Here's an article on General Patton's experience post-war of East European Jews:
Most of the Jews swarming over Germany immediately after the war came from Poland and Russia, and Patton found their personal habits shockingly uncivilized.

He was disgusted by their behavior in the camps for Displaced Persons (DP's) which the Americans built for them and even more disgusted by the way they behaved when they were housed in German hospitals and private homes. He observed with horror that "these people do not understand toilets and refuse to use them except as repositories for tin cans, garbage, and refuse . . . They decline, where practicable, to use latrines, preferring to relieve themselves on the floor."

He described in his diary one DP camp, "where, although room existed, the Jews were crowded together to an appalling extent, and in practically every room there was a pile of garbage in one corner which was also used as a latrine. The Jews were only forced to desist from their nastiness and clean up the mess by the threat of the butt ends of rifles. Of course, I know the expression 'lost tribes of Israel' applied to the tribes which disappeared -- not to the tribe of Judah from which the current sons of bitches are descended. However, it is my personal opinion that this too is a lost tribe -- lost to all decency."

Patton's initial impressions of the Jews were not improved when he attended a Jewish religious service at Eisenhower's insistence. His diary entry for September 17, 1945, reads in part:

"This happened to be the feast of Yom Kippur, so they were all collected in a large, wooden building, which they called a synagogue. It behooved General Eisenhower to make a speech to them. We entered the synagogue, which was packed with the greatest stinking bunch of humanity I have ever seen. When we got about halfway up, the head rabbi, who was dressed in a fur hat similar to that worn by Henry VIII of England and in a surplice heavily embroidered and very filthy, came down and met the General . . . The smell was so terrible that I almost fainted and actually about three hours later lost my lunch as the result of remembering it."
Last edited by been-there on Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

Roberto
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Re: Transit Challenge Submission

Post by Roberto »

been-there wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:48 am
blake121666 wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:52 am
I think the fact, as Roberto put it above, that T-II was "on a branch line leading nowhere" means that T-II was not JUST a "transit camp". There would have to be some reason to stop the train at Treblinka Station and shunt the cars 20 at a time into T-II. THAT is not what one would expect from a dedicated "transit camp". So Revisionists need to drop the thought of T-II being SIMPLY a transit camp.
Wow! :o
But that is EXACTLY what I would expect from a 'transit camp' on a short spur line that had been erected close to and was operated by some of the same people who operated a pre-existing gravel quarry 'labour camp'. (T1).

OK. Let's put this in its bigger context...

1. During World War 2 there was a 'war' going on.

2. People with ethnic origins related to enemy nations were regarded as potentially hostile internal threats by ALL the participant warring nations and were incarcerated in 'concentration camps' and 'labour camps'. That requires rounding up, getting them to railways, moving them on trains. ALL the warring nations did this to those of their own citizens with the perceived 'wrong' ethnic background. Moving masses of people around on trains doesn't equate with genocide yet.

3. Germany originally just made people regarded as 'potentially hostile Jewish fifth-columnists' wear an identifying yellow star, but later decided to effect a 'final solution' that involved forcing them to emigrate and/or incarcerating them for the duration of the war with the intent of using those able for work, and after victory making them all leave. I.e. exile. E.g. Madagascar was one plan that didn't work out.

4. Rounding up and then moving trainloads of people was just one part of that operation. Other aspects were a.) preventing spread of disease/preventing dangerous epidemics, b.) acquiring needed labour and c.) wealth appropriation. In Canada, America and Britain the same level of cases and risks of Typhus disease among the perceived hostile aliens weren't there. Typhus carriers amongst Polish and Eastern Jews was a pre-existing problem BEFORE WW2.

5. Remember point 1 that there was a war going on. A 'total war', declared by Britain but pushed by international jewry, and after their defeat at Dunkirk with Germany's genuine peace offers rejected before they had even been received or considered. A 'total war' now declared by Britain to be executed with no mercy, with German civilians deliberately targeted and with Germany threatened with annihilation. An escalated 'total war' with people claiming to represent international Jewry working to get America involved against Germany again. Remember that one of international Jewry's representatives Chaim Weizmann bragged that they (Jews) had succesfully done exactly that in WW1. Recall also that most people in Germany — especially Hitler, the wehrmacht top brass and the NSDAP leadership — were bitterly aware of how they had been forced into penury, starvation and widespread national economic and social depression after the unjustly punitive conclusion of WW1. I.e. Germans were perceived to be fighting for their very existence.

6. Remember point 4. moving truckloads/trainloads of people was just one part of that 'endlösung' operation. Other aspects were a.) preventing spread of disease/preventing dangerous epidemics, b.) acquiring needed labour and c.) wealth appropriation.

7. A transit 'camp' is where people ENTER for a time BEFORE BEING TRANSITED TO SOMEWHERE ELSE. If they just stop at a railway station temporarily that is NOT a 'camp'. That's a transit stop. Malkinia could have been such a 'transit stop'. But no-one has ever claimed this. So that is PRECISELY WHY a 'camp' would have been required close to Malkinia.

8. Treblinka village and its Treblinka railway station were tiny. There was no 'camp' there.

9. Treblinka 2 was not only a transit 'point'. It was a fenced 'camp', with buildings, barracks, a bakery, a zoo, a steam facility for disinfecting clothes, with large 'shower' rooms, etc., etc. and with a permanent staff of operators.

10. Treblinka 2 was operated by 25 to 35 German SS and police officials plus a police auxiliary guard unit of between 90 and 150 men.

11. It apparently served numerous functions which the holocaust narrative confuses in order to maintain only ONE 'extermination narrative': it augmented and fed operators of the gravel quarry camp (T1), it became an 'education camp' for labour camp troublemakers, AND its function as a transit camp*/extermination camp*, (*take your pick).
USHMM wrote:The camp [T1] also served the SS and police authorities as a so-called Labour Education Camp for non-Jewish Poles whom the Germans perceived to have violated labour discipline.
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.ph ... d=10005193
. . . .
blake121666 wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:52 am
...[snip]...One could say she was transported to T-II for some reason - such as for hygienic and/or looting reasons.
The T-II as solely a transit camp thesis makes little sense.
I think it makes perfect sense!
Your problem seems to be you still don't really understand the local geography. You don't appear to understand what the function of a 'transit camp' would have been. And you don't appear to understand what Aktion Reinhardt was about.
You appear to have a good understanding of small engineering details, but you appear to me to not have begun to understand the big picture of WW2, nor Aktion Reinhardt, nor what 'Die Endlösung der Judenfraga' was actually about according to the actual documentation.
blake121666 wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:52 am
Rudolf's interview suggests to me that he isn't up to speed on what Aktion Reinhard was in detail: what camps were involved, those responsible for things, what the purpose was, ... etc. There is WAY too much hand-waving of little substance going on in the Revisionist camp on this subject (AR). And I consider this behavior to be a petulant "negationism" - no substance to it. It can be, and will be, simply ignored by people who want substance - backed up with evidence.
I think you are projecting your own confusion and lack of a basic understanding onto others.
You need to understand why you need a 'camp' at a transit point.
You need to consider what will be the function of such a 'transit CAMP', and so what it will require.

• If T2 was such a 'transit camp' for preventing spread of disease, it would need shower facilities and clothes disinfectation facilities (T2 had showers/*killing chambers and steam rooms).

• If T2 was such a 'transit camp' for selecting suitable prison-labour camp workers, and transiting them to prison-labour camps, it would need a fence to prevent escape (T2 had a fence) large showering facilites for disease control (T2 had *shower rooms/*killing chambers), food making facilities (T2 had a bakery), clean camp clothes storage, and barracks for inmates and camp operators (T2 had barracks, permant camp workers and guards).

• If T2 was such a 'transit camp' for wealth appropriation/theft/looting then you need somewhere to store and sort it, people to sort it and document it, and guards to protect it.

• If T2 was such a 'transit camp' for exiling people via train into the russian zone, it would need to be situated where the railway guage changes. (T2 was exactly at such a 'changing' point: close by Malkinia and served by the pre-existing camp serving T1.)

SUMMARY
Malkinia Railway junction, Treblinka village, and Treblinka Village Railway station didn't have ANY of these NEEDED FACILITIES!!!

Image
The Kurt Franz Map of Treblinka. In his handwriting Franz indicates names of SS men where they served in the camp.

Image
Kurt Franz

Image

On 31st July 1941, Reinhard Heydrich received an order from Herman Göring to solve “the Jewish question”. What later became known as 'the Final Solution'. And much later still as 'THE Holocaust'.
Göring ordered Reinhard Heydrich “to submit to me as soon as possible a general plan...”
Göring recounted briefly the outline for that which he didn't call a “final solution” but a “total solution” — that had been drawn up on January 24, 1939. It was emigration or evacuation in the best possible way.”

Treblinka2 still fits with both:
1. the DOCUMENTED 'evacuation' plan plus forced labour plan,
as well as with
2. the undocumented alleged 'extermination' plan.

The problematical issues with T2 for a fair historical approach remains:
i.) the absence of documentation for onward transits, and absence of evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jews onwardly transited.
ii.) the absence of forensic evidence for the claimed 700-900,000 remains at the site.

ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE is not evidence of absence!
We don't have the appropriate documentation of the alleged extermination programme.
We don't have the appropriate documentation of the transit programme either.

But consider this: we don't have the appropriate documentation of the looting/wealth appropriation programme either, and yet no-one denies this aspect. Why isn't that made more of in the enforced official narrative?
I think its because the actual documentary evidenced aspect of the Aktion Reinhardt operation is played down because it detracts from its alleged meaning which is purely 'extermination'. This is just one small aspect of the deliberately deceitful nature of 'holocaust' popular history.
been-there wrote:SUMMARY
Malkinia Railway junction, Treblinka village, and Treblinka Village Railway station didn't have ANY of these NEEDED FACILITIES!!!
Neither did T-II. If been-there's Nazi heroes wanted a transit camp, why did they set it up along a branch line onto which the trains had to be laboriously pushed and from which they had to be laboriously pushed out? Why didn't they set it up along the main line, where Jews would just board the train after their "processing" and traveled on to whatever final destination been-there dreams about?

If this, if that, T-II would have made a good transit camp if it had been intended as such (and an even better one if it had been set up by the main line instead of by a branch line). Irrelevant as there' no evidence that T-II was a transit camp as opposed to an extermination camp, which is what all known evidence shows it to have been.

This comes at the end of a long litany of bullshit in which the following articles of faith could not be missing:
been-there wrote:Treblinka2 still fits with both:
1. the DOCUMENTED 'evacuation' plan plus forced labour plan,
as well as with
2. the undocumented alleged 'extermination' plan.
Actually "evacuation" - related documents that have been recovered tend to point to extermination, not to evacuation in a literal sense. In his Posen speech on 4 October 1943, for instance, Himmler equated "Judenevakuierung" with "Ausrottung des jüdischen Volkes". And the Korherr Report mentions 633,300 Jews who had been "evacuated" in the occupied Soviet territories. Where are these Jews supposed to have been "evacuated" to, been-there?
been there wrote:The problematical issues with T2 for a fair historical approach remains:
i.) the absence of documentation for onward transits, and absence of evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jews onwardly transited.
ii.) the absence of forensic evidence for the claimed 700-900,000 remains at the site.
ii) is not true as there is some forensic evidence, though the site investigation was only partial and the human remains found, while considerable according to the investigators' description, was not quantified. But then, forensic evidence is not the only evidence, and it doesn't contradict (rather corroborates) what becomes apparent from documentary and eyewitness evidence regarding Treblinka extermination camp.

i) is true and a big problem for "Revisionists", as there should be plenty of records regarding onward transports (which the Nazis would have been interested in carefully preserving, as it would have been their best defense against allegations that they had murdered the deportees. There also should be documentation regarding the arrival, accommodation, feeding and further processing in the "Russian East". And there should be an enormous number of witnesses - hundred or thousands from among the Germans involved in the process, hundreds of thousands from among the deportees themselves.
been there wrote:ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE is not evidence of absence!
It is when one should expect plenty of evidence to exist, as in the case of the supposed "transit" to the "Russian East".
been there wrote:We don't have the appropriate documentation of the alleged extermination programme.
Actually we do. I mentioned some of it in an earlier post on this thread.
been there wrote:We don't have the appropriate documentation of the transit programme either.
That's right, and a big problem for "Revisionists" as there would be plenty such documentation if the "transit camp" theory were not just hollow humbug.
been-there" wrote:But consider this: we don't have the appropriate documentation of the looting/wealth appropriation programme either, and yet no-one denies this aspect. Why isn't that made more of in the enforced official narrative?
First of all, there's no "official" narrative, which rules out an "enforced" one.

Second, the results of the AR looting program as well documented, in the annexes of a letter that Globocnik addressed to Himmler on 5 January 1944. In the same letter he mentioned that all documentation regarding "other work in this matter" had already been destroyed, and urged that the loot documentation be destroyed as well.
been-there wrote:I think its because the actual documentary evidenced aspect of the Aktion Reinhardt operation is played down because it detracts from its alleged meaning which is purely 'extermination'. This is just one small aspect of the deliberately deceitful nature of 'holocaust' popular history.
Bullshit. The aspect of Aktion Reinhardt that is best supported by documentary evidence is the mass murder.
Denial of generally known historical facts should not be punishable. For those who maintain, for instance, that Germany did not take part in World War I or that Adenauer fought at Issus in 333, their own stupidity is punishment enough. The same should apply to the denial of the horrors and crimes of the recent German past.
~ A German jurist by the name of Baumann in the German juridical magazine NJW, quoted in: Bailer-Galanda/Benz/Neugebauer (ed.), Die Auschwitzleugner, Berlin 1996, page 261 (my translation).

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