Nazi attitudes towards the Slavs.

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Werd
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Re: Nazi attitudes towards the Slavs.

Post by Werd » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:00 pm

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:52 pm
Hitler moved into the non-Sudetenlands of Czechoslovakia o-n-l-y after the Invitation of Dr. Hacha and after the Poles had grabbed Teschen from the Czechs. Not a single shot was fired against the Germans when they moved in to establish the "Protectorate."

Did the western Allies from WW1 "keep their word" regarding self-determination in accord with Woodrow Wilson's Fourteen Points?

FPBerg
From Mr. Rieger:
https://rense.com/general87/de.htm
It is a mistake to maintain that the entry of German troops into Czechoslovakia on 15 March 1939 brought about a change in Britain's policy toward the Reich.

This must be said about Czechoslovakia: in this clumsily cobbled-together country, a minority of Czechs ruled three million Germans as well as Slovaks, Ruthenians, Poles and Hungarians.

All these ethnic splinter groups wanted to rejoin their nations but were brutally prohibited by the Czechs from doing so.

The reason for this was that under the Dictate of Versailles, France was able to pursue a policy of aggrandizing Germany's neighbors so as to have powerful allies in the coming war against Germany.

After Austria had been reunited with the Reich came the problem of annexing the millions of Germans living under Czech rule.

Hitler proposed self-determination, but the Czechs responded with increased repression.

They did everything to provoke Hitler, including a general mobilization on 21 May 1938 to counter an allegedly impending attack by Germany, which was a total fabrication.

Since no attack took place, the Czech as well as French and English press triumphantly announced that their determined military measures had dissuaded Hitler from invasion, which caused the Reich to lose prestige.

The American ambassador in Paris clearly recognized the bellicose character of the Czech mobilization and characterized it in a report to President Roosevelt as a "provocation for another war in Europe."

In order to evaluate the situation the British government sent Lord Runciman to the Sudetenland.

In his report on 16 September 1938 he wrote: "I have great sympathy for the cause of the Sudeten Germans.

It is difficult to be governed by a foreign nation, and my impression is that Czechoslovak rule in the Sudetenland displays such a lack of tact and understanding, and so much petty intolerance and discrimination, that dissatisfaction among the German population must inevitably lead to outrage and rebellion."

Following this the British government joined in urging the Czechs to allow a plebiscite in Sudetenland.

The French government, which had a mutual assistance treaty with Czechoslovakia, did the same, since France was not prepared to go to war with Germany over the Sudetenland.

The Czech Government rejected the suggestion of a plebiscite because this would have served as precedent for other national minorities to demand plebiscites as well.

However, they agreed to relinquish the Sudeten districts without plebiscite since these regions bordering the Reich were populated almost entirely by Germans.

This is how the "Munich Agreement" came about.

It resulted not from threats and extortion by Hitler, but rather an agreement by all parties that the Sudeten Germans rightfully belonged "Heim ins Reich" (back home in the Reich.)

It is important to note that both Britain and Germany agreed to guarantee the borders of Czechoslovakia as soon as its other problems of national minorities were solved.

Neither Hitler nor anyone else guaranteed any national borders, since Czechoslovakia never solved its minority problems.

In March 1939 both the Slovaks and the Ruthenians declared independence, whereupon the Poles invaded Czechoslovakia and occupied the Olsa Region, which was populated by Poles.

The Hungarians did the same, occupying the border areas that were populated by Hungarians.

Since Czechoslovakia had ceased to exist, its President Hacha flew to Berlin on 15 March 1939 and placed the remainder of his country under the protection of the Reich.

He was afraid that Poland and Hungary would follow the Czech example and divide the Czech regions among themselves.

The Reich then formed the Protectorate of Bohemia and Maeren, which provided for exclusive Czech administration in all areas except military and foreign policy.

Hitler was concerned about the threat to German cities and industrial areas that was posed by Czech air bases.

Because it felt betrayed by the Sudeten agreement and the Western powers, Czechoslovakia had adopted close relations with the Soviet Union, which had already stationed 300 airplanes in the Czech regions.

Hitler, who knew that war with the Soviet Union inevitable, could not allow the Czech regions to serve as a staging area and "aircraft carrier" for the Soviet Union.

Hacha remained in office and attended the parade of 20 April 1939 as a guest of the Reich, standing next to Hitler.

It is very clear that Hitler did not violate the Munich accord.

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Goody67
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Re: Nazi attitudes towards the Slavs.

Post by Goody67 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:02 pm

4. He also ignores this post I quoted from Stormfront with the words "rape" and "murder" in it regarding how Poles treated Germans. So that's him fallaciously equivocating on my use of the word aggression.[/quote]

The first source is "A German Patriot Reflects On September 1939".

Which German patriot? The link does not work anymore. The chances are that the "German Patriot" was simply repeating the propaganda he had been told. How did he know about the massacres? Goebbels's propaganda machine.

Remember what Richard J. Evans wrote:
Meanwhile, Goebbels's propaganda machine had gone into overdrive to persuade Germans that the invasion had been inevitable in the light of a Polish threat of genocide against the ethnic Germans in their midst. The nationalistic military regime in Poland had indeed discriminated heavily against the German ethnic minority in the interwar years. At the onset of the German invasion in September 1939, gripped by fears of sabotage behind the lines, it had arrested between ten and fifteen thousand ethnic Germans and marched them towards the eastern part of the country, beating laggards and shooting many of those who gave up through exhaustion.

There were also widespread attacks on members of the ethnic German minority, most of whom had made no attempt to disguise their desire to return to the German Reich ever since their forcible incorporation into Poland at the end of the First World War. Although, around 2,000 ethnic Germans were killed in mass shootings or died from exhaustion on the marches. Some 300 were killed in Bromberg (Bydgoszcz), where local ethnic Germans had staged an armed uprising against the town's garrison in the belief that the war was virtually over, and had been killed by the enraged Poles. These events were cynically exploited by Goebbels's Propaganda Ministry to win maximum support in Germany for the invasion. Many Germans were convinced. Melita Maschmann, a young activist in the League of German Girls, the female wing of the Hitler Youth, was persuaded the war was morally justified not only in the light of the injustices of Versailles, which had ceded German-speaking areas to the new Polish state, but also by press and newsreel reports of Polish violence against the German-speaking minority.

60,000 ethnic Germans, she believed, had been brutally murdered by the Poles in 'Bloody Sunday' in Bromberg. How could Germany be to blame for acting to stop such hatred, such atrocities, she asked herself. Goebbels had initially estimated the total number of ethnic Germans killed at 5,800. It was not until February 1940 that, probably on Hitler's personal instructions, the estimate was arbitrarily increased to 58,000, later remembered in rough approximation by Melta Maschmann. The figure not only convinced most Germans that the invasion had been justified, but also fuelled the hatred and resentment felt by the ethnic German minority in Poland against their former masters.
Under Hitler's orders, its bitterness was quickly brought into the service of a campaign of ethnic cleansing and mass murder that far outdid anything that had happened after the German occupation of Austria and Czechoslovakia in 1938.
The second seems to be simply repeating the same BS and provides no sources.

As another Stormfront user posted:
Since there still isn't any evidence of any massacres occurring, then the whole excuse that Germany invaded to protect Germans from massacres falls apart.

An opinion piece written by a German conspiracy theorist who thinks the entire western world wanted to declare war on Germany, but somehow waited until after Hitler had rebuilt the German armed forces before doing it?
Yet again, no evidence provided but just people's opinions posted on websites.

Why did Goebbels only mention the deaths of three Germans in December 1939?

Who the hell is George Duncan? He has no credibility.

If you are willing to accept the reflections from a German patriot, why do you refuse to accept the reflections from Holocaust survivors?
We saw these last words from Juergen Rieger as quoted in Stormfront:
whoever reads the White Book of the German- Polish war will find countless undisputed murders and assaults committed by the Poles in the weeks and months preceding 1 September 1939.
So that disproves the lie Goody is promoting that nobody mentioned anything because it must not have happened. :lol:
For the last time, when even the contemporary primary German sources of the then German Foreign Office lack any information on any pre-war massacres, it's time you stop spreading lies about pre-war massacres. What is so hard to understand? I do not understand.
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Goody67
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Re: Nazi attitudes towards the Slavs.

Post by Goody67 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:05 pm

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:52 pm
Goody67 wrote earlier:
Hitler had proven to the world that he could not be kept at his word, the Poles were not naive enough to believe his proposals.
Really, Goody67? Based on what? Hitler moved into the non-Sudetenlands of Czechoslovakia o-n-l-y after the Invitation of Dr. Hacha and after the Poles had grabbed Teschen from the Czechs. Not a single shot was fired against the Germans when they moved in to establish the "Protectorate."

Did the western Allies from WW1 "keep their word" regarding self-determination in accord with Woodrow Wilson's Fourteen Points?

FPBerg
The same poor man that had a heart attack after Göring threatened to bomb the capital.

Hitler occupied a territory that was inhabited by seven million ethnic Czechs. He showed the world he was after more than just German lands.

There weren't many happy faces either.
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Werd
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Re: Nazi attitudes towards the Slavs.

Post by Werd » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:05 pm

For the last time, when even the contemporary primary German sources of the then German Foreign Office lack any information on any pre-war massacres, it's time you stop spreading lies about pre-war massacres. What is so hard to understand? I do not understand.
And yet...

More from Unconditioned Canuck:
A German Patriot Reflects On September 1939

The German minority had been disfranchised in the 1920s, and in the 1930s it was subjected to open terror, murder and rape, especially in the months preceding September 1939. Under the nonaggression treaty German newspapers were not allowed to report on Polish atrocities against the minority Germans, which led to the emigration of a million Germans. Another million remained behind in German regions that had been seized by the Poles. A popular song about the Poles that originated among the fighting home defense units in Upper Silesia was rewritten in National Socialist songbooks to suggest that the struggle was not against "Pjorunje" but rather "Bolschewike".

Since the British guarantee of 31 March 1939 gave Poland carte blanche in its dealings with Germany, Poland intensified its persecutions of the German minority. Abductions became common, speaking German in public was proscribed, German associations and newspapers were suppressed, the German consul in Krakow was murdered, etc. It is irrelevant whether Poles or Germans attacked the Gleiwitz transmitting station; whoever reads the White Book of the German- Polish war will find countless undisputed murders and assaults committed by the Poles in the weeks and months preceding 1 September 1939.

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Goody67
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Re: Nazi attitudes towards the Slavs.

Post by Goody67 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:10 pm

Werd,

Individual incidents of murders and assaults are not the same as a massacre.

Read the following:

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t93964 ... st11037855

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t93964 ... st11104860

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t10457 ... st12177417
I already posted those exact instances and more, directly from the German White & Blue Books here, here and here. Don't pretend like you've found a goldmine over here.

Guess what? NOT A SINGLE MASSACRE IS MENTIONED, because pre-war massacres DID NOT HAPPEN.

And you haven't read the official German Blue book with all its primary sources, so stop your yapping about pre-war massacres, because not a single one is mentioned, not even in the officially published 1939/1940 propaganda books on Polish atrocities. And what's your excuse for that? Simple, the Allies burned those books and printed new books with the massacres redacted out!
https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1045758-18/

Instead of copying and pasting other people claiming that massacres happened. Why don't you actually provide evidence?
Last edited by Goody67 on Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Friedrich Paul Berg
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Re: Nazi attitudes towards the Slavs.

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:10 pm

Actually there were lots of happy faces in the protectorate once Heydrich took charge and gave people good equal-to-german pay for the same work and lots of job security. Heydrich was buried as a great hero by the Czechs after being assassinated by Czechs flown in from Britain--not even local Czechs at all. The Czechs had NOT been reduced to being some kind of "slaves" at all.

As to the Polish "massacres" of Germans, the word "massacre" which suggests a mass killing may not be the right word but there were lots of "killings." My own father was nearly killed in Silesia in 1921 when he and some other Germans were attacked with hand grenades while walking back from a night of drinking and singing. One hand grenade fell into a pile of grassy mud nearby and exploded leaving only a fragment in my father's coat. No investigation for the perpetrators was even possible under the cvircumstances. There were lots of individual killings by Polish perpetrators--and that was why well over a 1-1/2 million Germans fled the Polish corridor--and many from other areas as well. Were the Poles likely to investigate, seriously? Of course, not. Goody67 is a racist child.

FPBerg
Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Goody67
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Re: Nazi attitudes towards the Slavs.

Post by Goody67 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:14 pm

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:10 pm
Actually there were lots of happy faces in the protectorate once Heydrich took charge and gave people good equal-to-german pay for the same work and lots of job security. Heydrich was buried as a great hero by the Czechs after being assassinated by Czechs flown in from Britain--not even local Czechs at all. The Czechs had NOT been reduced to being some kind of "slaves" at all.

FPBerg
When Hitler occupied the rest of Czechoslovakia and announced the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, there were hardly any faces. The Czechs could not believe it.

The Czechs were used and abused. Only the Nordic Czechs were considered to be valuable. Those that resisted the Nazis and Mongol Czechs were to be eliminated.

The Czechs, like many other occupied peoples did not volunteer for the tyranny of the Nazis. Nevertheless, the Nazis did co-operate with the Czechs so they could produce the arms of production in factories.
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Friedrich Paul Berg
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Re: Nazi attitudes towards the Slavs.

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:23 pm

Evidence?

Does Goody67 seriiously imagine that the Germans, of all people, would have left their ancient homes and farms in the so-called Polish corridor merely because of some unkind words from the Poles? Goody67 is obviously a child.

My own mother in 1928 made a trip by train through the corridor to visit my uncle in Danzig. While on Polish territory and riding through the corridor, the train windows were all covered so that any Germans on board could not even look out the windows at their former homesites or farms. The Poles were, and still are, quite insane just like Goody67.

FPBerg

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Re: Nazi attitudes towards the Slavs.

Post by Rev2018 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:11 pm

I am new here and I find this Forum very interesting and educational. As a Pole this thread is especially interesting to me. I must say that the most objective person posting here is Mr Friedrich Paul Berg. What he has said here is the truth. Firstly, there have been a thousand years long hatred against Germans in Poland. It is purely surreal especially at the time of peace where objectively there is no reason for that. This anti-German sentiment is very much alive in the present day Poland too. Almost every day there are some articles published or Polish politicians use hate language refering to Germans. Just a few examples which took me maybe two minutes to find.

Polish obsession with alleged German take over of the Polish media:
https://polandinenglish.info/39507833/f ... -in-poland

Anti-German campain in Poland
https://pikio.pl/niemieckie-media-oburz ... -w-polsce/

Here someone claims that he has fought against Germans and now is 'persecuted' (all this happened within the last few years not at war)
https://www.se.pl/wiadomosci/polityka/t ... -kruK.html

And an English link about German army exhibition which, as it turned out had many photographs containing Soviet and not German executions:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1680579.stm

In the light of this one should ask oneself what is the truth and what is a lie. From the perspective of my family, I can say that my grandfather who lived through the war talked very highly about the years between 1939 and 1944 (when Soviet army 'liberated' Poland). He said he remembered there was order in the country and Polish people felt safer than before. It seems that it was the politicians that spewed hatred against Germany for many reasons, which can be investigated, while average citizens either were influenced by them or were quite happy about the situation.

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Re: Nazi attitudes towards the Slavs.

Post by rollo the ganger » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:30 pm

Welcome to the forum Rev2018. It's always a welcome relief to hear a fresh perspective on the matter. Unfortunately I can't read Polish so some of your links were a bit difficult for me. However, I'd like to hear any stories your grandfather may have told you about the war years (1939-1944) in Poland. I'm sure everyone on this forum would be interested in hearing them. Thank you.

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